Yeah, I had a hard time with Sacred Ground; the "seemingly" rattlesnake business just made it worse for me!
My first voyage with Voyager
- Thread starter Qutluch
- Start date
Yeah, I had a hard time with Sacred Ground; the "seemingly" rattlesnake business just made it worse for me!
It's weird though as it features as much Janeway as we will ever get to see so really it should be beyond awesome 
btw Kirsten Beyer who writes the VOY Treklit at the moment credits Sacred Ground as having an impact on the spiritual parts of her last Voyager book, The Eternal Tide. I didn't actually notice those bits but since it was Treklit I may have been on auto-skim once it started trying to be meaningful (no besmirch here meant to Beyer, to each their own and if it works more power to it).
btw Kirsten Beyer who writes the VOY Treklit at the moment credits Sacred Ground as having an impact on the spiritual parts of her last Voyager book, The Eternal Tide. I didn't actually notice those bits but since it was Treklit I may have been on auto-skim once it started trying to be meaningful (no besmirch here meant to Beyer, to each their own and if it works more power to it).
I didn't mind Sacred Ground at all. It's an interesting concept, throwing Janeway into a situation where she was initially dismissive (if not politely contemptuous) of the society's beliefs and practices and forcing her to put aside her prejudice to save Kes.
I'm a lot more forgiving with episodes which take a chance and try to do something different than those which are more formulaic.
PS - thanks to Teacake for directing me to this thread. I've just finished re-watching this season, and it's interesting to see another perspective.
I'm a lot more forgiving with episodes which take a chance and try to do something different than those which are more formulaic.
PS - thanks to Teacake for directing me to this thread. I've just finished re-watching this season, and it's interesting to see another perspective.
I've always thought of "Sacred Ground" as the Trek's opposite argument to the view points expressed in TNG's "Who Watches The Watchers?", with SG discussing how somethings will and can never be explained by science.
The most interesting thing for me about SG is that it was Robert Duncan McNeill's first outing as a director. Regardless of what one may think of the plot, his shots show an intimacy and originality that is lacking in the often routine (or rote) direction of many of the regulars. The beginning of a solid behind-the-scenes career.
The Swarm
The opening with the Doctor singing was hysterical! Was that actually Picardo, or a voice over? The Doctor begins showing signs of degradation in his programing. The easiest solution would be to reinitialize his entire network, but this would erase the two years of experiences that he’s accumulated as the EMH on Voyager. Kes begs him and Janeway to look for an alternative solution. Kes pleads with the Doctor that he will not remember their friendship if they don’t look for a different solution and Janeway agrees that they should at least attempt one.
Meanwhile, Janeway and the crew are looking for a way to cut through a region of alien space. Going around it would take up to 15 months at maximum warp, so Janeway decides to forego Federation law and trespass anyways, despite Tuvok’s protests and eye raises. The alien space is guarded by a sensor grid, but it also bottlenecks at a point, making the crossing only about 4 days at maximum velocity. Harry finds a way to enter the alien space without setting off the boundary grids. (I think he might be growing on me…maybe). Once on the other side they discover a swarm of thousands of tiny ships adrift in space, but don’t alert them to their presence.
The Doctor makes a horrible patient. B’ellana tests his circuitry and motor abilities, at one point making him go blind. He screams and waves his hand furiously in front of his face. Eventually, she decides to use the holographic diagnostic tool, which has a virtual Dr. Zimmerman. (I love seeing an actor play multiple roles like this. Picardo must have had a ball with this episode, and he did a tremendous job)! He berates B’ellana’s attempts at saving the doctor, saying that the system wasn’t designed for continual use. At most, the system was designed for 1,500 hours (2 months).The Doctor has stage 4 memory fragmentatio, which was caused by his continual learning. He wasn’t designed to store the capacity that his 2 year existence has given him.
The crew discovered a damaged ship drifting through space. They beam the one survivor over and he tells them that his craft were attacked by the swarm of ships. He dies, but as Voyager is getting ready to continue on their way, a swarm ship that has been hiding on the base of the alien vessel appears. It shoots them with a proton burst, which acts like a signal flare to the alien ships. The swarm becomes active and begins a pursuit.
As the Doctor gets worse, Kes begs virtual Dr. Zimmerman to find another solution. She suggests that they attempt a graft of his own matrix to the Doctor’s matrix, allowing his matrix to reestablish itself off of it. Dr. Zimmerman agrees, but informs her that it will destroy himself in the process. They attempt it, and both holographs disappear, but eventually The Doctor reappears and seems to have forgotten who Kes is. However, he does begin to hum; hopefully his memories will return. I really hope that in the next episode everything is not fine and dandy with him, I would like to see him regain his memories, and hopefully he will finally give himself a stupid name!
The swarm attacks, and when Voyager fires on it, they reflect the phaser directly rebounds back on Voyager. The shields drop, and the minions begin to board the ship. Voyager disrupts the lattice matrix that links the ships together, and they retreat. Overall, I enjoyed this episode. Both lines of the story were good! I just don’t understand how Janeway can overlook some things that will save them time (like cutting through a hostile aliens space who do not want them there), but she will not save time by cutting a deal with Q’s jailers; a deal that would automatically bring them home…I wish they would develop that moral line better with Janeway. You never know from episode to episode what she will morally overlook for the betterment of the crew…
Favorite part: When the Doctor temporarily went blind!
Least favorite part: That the Doctor’s memories were not returned in this episode. One of my least favorite things about this series is that often things are not explained or reexamined in future episodes; everything is simply fine. I would really like to see the Doctor fully get his memory back, and if he does I hope they show it!
The opening with the Doctor singing was hysterical! Was that actually Picardo, or a voice over? The Doctor begins showing signs of degradation in his programing. The easiest solution would be to reinitialize his entire network, but this would erase the two years of experiences that he’s accumulated as the EMH on Voyager. Kes begs him and Janeway to look for an alternative solution. Kes pleads with the Doctor that he will not remember their friendship if they don’t look for a different solution and Janeway agrees that they should at least attempt one.
Meanwhile, Janeway and the crew are looking for a way to cut through a region of alien space. Going around it would take up to 15 months at maximum warp, so Janeway decides to forego Federation law and trespass anyways, despite Tuvok’s protests and eye raises. The alien space is guarded by a sensor grid, but it also bottlenecks at a point, making the crossing only about 4 days at maximum velocity. Harry finds a way to enter the alien space without setting off the boundary grids. (I think he might be growing on me…maybe). Once on the other side they discover a swarm of thousands of tiny ships adrift in space, but don’t alert them to their presence.
The Doctor makes a horrible patient. B’ellana tests his circuitry and motor abilities, at one point making him go blind. He screams and waves his hand furiously in front of his face. Eventually, she decides to use the holographic diagnostic tool, which has a virtual Dr. Zimmerman. (I love seeing an actor play multiple roles like this. Picardo must have had a ball with this episode, and he did a tremendous job)! He berates B’ellana’s attempts at saving the doctor, saying that the system wasn’t designed for continual use. At most, the system was designed for 1,500 hours (2 months).The Doctor has stage 4 memory fragmentatio, which was caused by his continual learning. He wasn’t designed to store the capacity that his 2 year existence has given him.
The crew discovered a damaged ship drifting through space. They beam the one survivor over and he tells them that his craft were attacked by the swarm of ships. He dies, but as Voyager is getting ready to continue on their way, a swarm ship that has been hiding on the base of the alien vessel appears. It shoots them with a proton burst, which acts like a signal flare to the alien ships. The swarm becomes active and begins a pursuit.
As the Doctor gets worse, Kes begs virtual Dr. Zimmerman to find another solution. She suggests that they attempt a graft of his own matrix to the Doctor’s matrix, allowing his matrix to reestablish itself off of it. Dr. Zimmerman agrees, but informs her that it will destroy himself in the process. They attempt it, and both holographs disappear, but eventually The Doctor reappears and seems to have forgotten who Kes is. However, he does begin to hum; hopefully his memories will return. I really hope that in the next episode everything is not fine and dandy with him, I would like to see him regain his memories, and hopefully he will finally give himself a stupid name!
The swarm attacks, and when Voyager fires on it, they reflect the phaser directly rebounds back on Voyager. The shields drop, and the minions begin to board the ship. Voyager disrupts the lattice matrix that links the ships together, and they retreat. Overall, I enjoyed this episode. Both lines of the story were good! I just don’t understand how Janeway can overlook some things that will save them time (like cutting through a hostile aliens space who do not want them there), but she will not save time by cutting a deal with Q’s jailers; a deal that would automatically bring them home…I wish they would develop that moral line better with Janeway. You never know from episode to episode what she will morally overlook for the betterment of the crew…
Favorite part: When the Doctor temporarily went blind!
Least favorite part: That the Doctor’s memories were not returned in this episode. One of my least favorite things about this series is that often things are not explained or reexamined in future episodes; everything is simply fine. I would really like to see the Doctor fully get his memory back, and if he does I hope they show it!
Don't tell me you missed the beginning of the famous Paris/Torres courtship ... ("I'd rather take my chances with Ensign Bristow...") :-)
The beginning of a beautiful ... something.
So much for spoiler free comments.
What did I say beyond what actually happened on the screen, hmmmm? Tom obviously trying to start something, in a rather puerile effort? (Some Ladies' man, huh?)
B'Elanna equally obviously rejecting him ..?
Harry's jealousy was something to behold.
Oh wait..
Oh wait..
Yeah. No ...
Just remembered. I actually wrote a story that notionally followed the events of "The Swarm", called Chasing the Dream. Hah. Memory is a tricky thing!
Remember
The episode starts with Harry flirting with the alien from Enara Prime, or was she flirting with him?? B’Elanna excused herself so Harry and the other women could be alone, and she went back to her quarters and had quite the racy dream! I like B’Elanna’s quarters. The plants look nice in there. I am not normally one who likes to decorate the indoors with plants, but when you are surrounded by space…
I cannot believe she told Chakotay that she was having deeply sensual dreams that felt real…I thought Chakotay actually blushed thinking about it. Then, he chided her and asked if he needed to write it up. At least he knew that she would “rip his head off” if he even wrote/spoke of it.
They are never out of uniform, even when meeting other cultures/people. Why are they in “street clothes” when they go to the re-decorated Mess Hall? Janeway looks great in that white pant suit with her hair half down! I think that is my favorite style that I have seen her in. The aliens are telepathic and they startled Janeway by helping her (telepathically) play a musical instrument of theirs. On another fashion note, Tuvok is stunning! He looks great in that color blue!
B’Elanna’s dreams have suddenly become violent. She shares this with Chakotay. (I like their interactions here. She is confiding in him about something quite personal and sexual, but there is no weird/awkwardness about it. He is her mentor and trusted advisor). Chakotay points out that it is not a coincidence that there are telepaths onboard while she is having these dreams.
While B’Elanna is dreaming she passes out and wakes up in the Doctor’s office. The Doc notifies her that her dreams are memories that have been implanted. Apparently, B’Elanna is picking up memories from them because of her telepathic capabilities. B’Elanna begins to have disturbing dreams/memories/flashbacks…(I am going with dreams here). She is having the memories from an older woman who is dying; a woman who wants the truth spoken, and she knows B’Elanna will share her memories. The woman’s memories are reminiscent of the holocaust. The “delinquent” members of society were being hauled away to never be seen or heard from again (most likely they were being vaporized and not transported to a new territory). I am reading “The Boy in The Stripped Pajamas” and when B’Elanna’s dream-father asked her if she could actually imagine that her family would be responsible for mass killings, I immediately flashed to the book.
In the end, B’Elanna’s dream lover was killed. The dream world went from this sexual fantasy to a Nazi Movement equipped with crowd’s chanting, and when the dream father was preaching (just before killing the lover) he even moved his hand in a Nazi-esk salute “Hail Hilter” type movement. B’Elanna confronts the leader of the people onboard the ship, and tells the story. Again, the similarities to the feelings of the Holocaust are prevalent. This episode was very well written.
In the end, B’Elanna’s dream lover was killed. The dream world went from this sexual fantasy to a Nazi Movement equipped with crowd’s chanting, and when the dream father was preaching (just before killing the lover) he even moved his hand in a Nazi-esk salute “Hail Hilter” type movement. B’Elanna confronts the leader of the people onboard the ship, and tells the story. Again, the similarities to the feelings of the Holocaust are prevalent. This episode was very well written.
Favorite part: The costumes and sexuality of this episode. I like seeing the characters in different clothes, and in the beginning of the episode everyone seemed a little more open. Kim flirted, B’Elanna shared her feelings…
Least favorite part: No mention of the Doctor’s memory problems!!
This is a very good episode I thought though not one I rewatch much because it's painful. It's a terrible burden this woman has carried for the sins of her youth.
As to costumes, I love this look. Men should just chuck the tie and do this kind of thing. Harry looks gorgeous here.
I also really like Bruce Davison who plays memory girl's father. He was great on Enterprise.
Yep and yep, the sexuality is refreshing for VOY. I think Chak and B'Elanna have been pretty open with each other in the past while in the Maquis.
As to costumes, I love this look. Men should just chuck the tie and do this kind of thing. Harry looks gorgeous here.
I also really like Bruce Davison who plays memory girl's father. He was great on Enterprise.
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This is a very good episode I thought though not one I rewatch much because it's painful. It's a terrible burden this woman has carried for the sins of her youth.
All this, and more. I like this one for the theme of remembrance of victims of (picked up in an episode in Season 6 which shall remain nameless for spoiler reasons, although the experiences of this one are by then conveniently forgotten).
The whole idea of characters as sexual beings -- yeah.
BUT. Teacake. That photo. THANK YOU. I've been on an Avengers kick lately in my geeky fan fiction writing; this one brings back to me just WHY I should be working on my latest Tom Paris piece instead ... I mean ... yummm .... (wipes drool off chin).
Emmm.... I'm okay now. Honest.
PS: If you like that tie-less look ... hang out around some Iranian diplomats sometime. Just sayin'.
Tom does look good there! I hadn't even notice because I like Harry's grey suit and I've always though he was a very good looking man (one of the 50 most beautiful people doncha know )
Tom looks all chiseled, like some kind of Cary Grant type.
)Tom looks all chiseled, like some kind of Cary Grant type.
And here I am thinking of Pacific Island sarongs. I think I know the look you mean though, that clean lined longer jacket, no collar and certainly no tie.
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