7X01 Asylum Of The Daleks (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

[Iamnotspock]

Just had a thought, and perhaps others have too. But when Oswin (in her mind; human form) is trying in vain to keep the Daleks out of her "pod." Could that just be the Dalek side of her trying to overtake her, and she sees it as actual Daleks trying to break down the door?

Like I said, may not be an original thought, but I haven't seen it presented here yet.

I think that was probably the intention, yes. There was some imagery in her mental simulation that seemed designed to evoke the Daleks, such as the ballerina (Raymond Cusick's original design inspiration, echoed later on with Amy's hallucination) and possibly the soufflé (Eggs, Stir, Minute... ).

 

[Holdfast]

I don't watch Who frequently enough to get all the intricate storylines/injokes but I usually end up watching a few episodes of each series of the modern Who and generally enjoy it. I caught yesterday's ep: good fun! Not outstanding but certainly entertaining, and it felt quite like an old-fashioned Doctor Who ep with a simple/clean narrative. I liked that.

I didn't get some of the story though (maybe 'cos I don't watch closely enough); perhaps you guys could fill in the blanks for me please?

- Why did the characters in the story accept Oswin being so deep underground for so long when they knew the spaceship she was on was much nearer on the surface and had crashed a year before? i.e. what was their in-story understanding of how she got there without being assimilated by the nanocloud?
- How did the TARDIS get on the Dalek spaceship? Was it already there before they slid down the light chute thing?
- Why were the Daleks so concerned about her transmission from the surface? I thought the shield was there to keep the mad Daleks inside, not stop stuff getting in (after all, it's clearly not an impermeable shield from outside as the send the Doctor et al in). And how come the Daleks already down there can't deactivate the shield themselves?
- Finally, how come the Daleks were happy enough to blow up the planet now, when they hadn't done so for so long and valued the hatred of the mad Daleks so much?

But leaving aside my presumably missing some story stuff through only half-watching, I still thought the emotional heart of the story was good. I only wish the Doctor hadn't telegraphed Oswin's reveal really early on when he so overtly questioned her souffle story. That instantly made me think she was lying & corrupted by Dalek tech. OK, so my guess was that she was assimilated (like the humans who abducted the Doctor et al) rather than a full-on Dalek, but still, it detracted a little from the power of the final reveal. Despite that, the performances were still engaging enough to sell the story.

BTW, not being immersed in Who fandom, this has probably been discussed ad infinitum already, but I did chuckle at the name of the pretty new companion: IIRC from history class, Oswin translates to "friend/ally of god" and Oswald to "having the power of god". Calling a Doctor's companion "God's friend" is quite a cheeky little wink.

When does she join the series properely (and do the rather-boring-to-me Amy/Rory finally leave the show soon? I actually thought they'd been written out at the end of the last series as I heard they were leaving and their story seems over, but no, here they are back again in this series...)

 

[Captain Shaw]

 

[Worf2DS9]

^ That is pretty hilarious.

When does she join the series properely (and do the rather-boring-to-me Amy/Rory finally leave the show soon? I actually thought they'd been written out at the end of the last series as I heard they were leaving and their story seems over, but no, here they are back again in this series...)

The Ponds will be departing in episode 5, then JLC will make her debut as the new companion in the Christmas episode.

 

[Holdfast]

When does she join the series properely (and do the rather-boring-to-me Amy/Rory finally leave the show soon? I actually thought they'd been written out at the end of the last series as I heard they were leaving and their story seems over, but no, here they are back again in this series...)

The Ponds will be departing in episode 5, then JLC will make her debut as the new companion in the Christmas episode.

Ah, I see. Thanks for the info; I kind of assumed she would be joining sooner than that. Oh well, never mind.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

- Why did the characters in the story accept Oswin being so deep underground for so long when they knew the spaceship she was on was much nearer on the surface and had crashed a year before? i.e. what was their in-story understanding of how she got there without being assimilated by the nanocloud?

There was none, so it stood out a bit to me too. I just assumed she was a robot, though, which made me think it was reversible. In spite of everything, I didn't expect a full Dalek. They might have hinted that she was shielded somehow, but, if they did, I missed it too.

- How did the TARDIS get on the Dalek spaceship? Was it already there before they slid down the light chute thing?

Yeah, it was there at the beginning of the episode. I assume the Daleks brought it when they brought the Doctor.

- Why were the Daleks so concerned about her transmission from the surface? I thought the shield was there to keep the mad Daleks inside, not stop stuff getting in (after all, it's clearly not an impermeable shield from outside as the send the Doctor et al in). And how come the Daleks already down there can't deactivate the shield themselves?

Two things. First, the shield was down by that point in the episode (hence why they were bombarding the planet).

Second, it was the Daleks down they that they were afraid of. They were essentially insane Daleks who wouldn't listen to the other Daleks (and would presumably even kill the other Daleks). This is why they wanted to blow them up. Although there's no explanation for why now. Maybe it had something to do with Owen, but I don't have an answer.

 

[wamdue]

one thing I did wonder is when we saw the brief shots of Oswin inside the Dalek case, why did she still have her body? the Daleks only really need her mind.

I also suspect they feared that Oswin may turn the insane Daleks into her own personal army, since she was able to control them, that is something that could really scare them.

 

[Samurai8472]

Yeah, the red dress with the tool belt was definitely a cute look for her.

It's a shame her companion look probably won't be as sexy.

I respectfully disagree

 

[Gepard]

one thing I did wonder is when we saw the brief shots of Oswin inside the Dalek case, why did she still have her body? the Daleks only really need her mind.

She wasn't physically in the Dalek case, not unless she'd been shrunk down to three inches tall. That was just her mental image of herself. There was no living quarters, no soufflé, no eggs to make a soufflé, and no physical Oswin.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

- Why did the characters in the story accept Oswin being so deep underground for so long when they knew the spaceship she was on was much nearer on the surface and had crashed a year before? i.e. what was their in-story understanding of how she got there without being assimilated by the nanocloud?

"Why hasn't the nano-cloud converted you?"
"I mentioned the genius thing, yeah? I'm shielded in here."

Don't know that they bought it but that's what was in there. I didn't predict the exact ending but I'm pretty sure most people watching had an inkling that something wasn't entirely kosher about her.

 

[Holdfast]

Thanks Alidar & Mr Adventure for the various explanations! As I said I wasn't watching massively closely & I missed seeing hte TARDIS & hearing that line.

Yeah, the red dress with the tool belt was definitely a cute look for her.It's a shame her companion look probably won't be as sexy.

Spoiler: nice pic

I respectfully disagree

That's rather fetching.

I like that they're sticking with the red dress/Carmen-esque theme.

(BTW, like the cleverly cheeky inside joke nature of the etymology for Oswin/Oswald I mentioned upthread, this is also probably obvious to Who fans but I only just realised while typing this post why Habanera was an inspired choice of aria to introduce her character. The libretto for it describes pretty much Oswin's exact situation/psychological needs in life at that moment. )

 

[Allyn Gibson]

There's another prequel to "Asylum of the Daleks," this one starring the Doctor and a Headless Monk. It's rather chilling.

 

[wamdue]

one thing I did wonder is when we saw the brief shots of Oswin inside the Dalek case, why did she still have her body? the Daleks only really need her mind.

She wasn't physically in the Dalek case, not unless she'd been shrunk down to three inches tall. That was just her mental image of herself. There was no living quarters, no soufflé, no eggs to make a soufflé, and no physical Oswin.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p00wqr14/hd/Doctor_Who_Series_7_Asylum_of_the_Daleks/

@43:09 is that not her inside the Dalek shell?

Her little living pod, is all in her mind.

 

[Gepard]

Link no workie outside the UK.

That said, if you're referring to the brief shots of her strapped into some kind of harness, I took that as her when she was being converted, i.e. it's a flashback. The whatever it was that she was attached to was also too large to fit inside a Dalek case.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

She wasn't physically in the Dalek case, not unless she'd been shrunk down to three inches tall. That was just her mental image of herself. There was no living quarters, no soufflé, no eggs to make a soufflé, and no physical Oswin.

I think her brain was in the Dalek casing, but most of her body was not, similar to the Glass Daleks of "Revelation of the Daleks" where the Great Healer, Davros, was using the corpsicles of Tranquil Repose to create an army of human Daleks loyal to him.

 

[Sadistro]

Mirrorball Man:
Nice to see such an even handed response... Is it really necessary to cop that kind of attitude, just because I didn't like it? Just because I don't like Moffat's episodes and overall direction for the series (since around Pandorica Opens onwards anyway), doesn't mean I don't care about the show. When you care, you continue to watch, hoping that things will either get better, or that the main offenders (Moffat in this case) won't ruin too much of the season for you.

You don't just give up, nor am I watching simply because (and I can't believe we've been reduced to this), 'I have too much free time'. I'm watching because I want to, but that doesn't mean I have to like everything I see. If you can't understand that, then maybe you should free up some of your ultra busy and undoubtedly extremely important schedule, to learn about the real world - one where people are not simply fanboys or haters.

I enjoyed AOTD more than I expected to, but that wasn't saying much. The story was silly, the tropes crushingly over familiar, and the female character's 'sass' was as welcome as a spike through the head. But it wasn't actively awful, like so many of Moffat's recent episodes have been.

As someone who is happy to acknowledge good work wherever I find it, nothing would make me happier than for Moffat to drop his ego, stick a pin in his bloated, swollen head and get back to writing the kind of classic episodes that he used to crank out to well deserved acclaim.

 

[wamdue]

Link no workie outside the UK.

That said, if you're referring to the brief shots of her strapped into some kind of harness, I took that as her when she was being converted, i.e. it's a flashback. The whatever it was that she was attached to was also too large to fit inside a Dalek case.

that is possible I suppose, even if she does appear to speak inside the shell, which is heard by the Doctor outside the shell in Dalek voice. Who knows whats going on in her mind.

There is certainly no good reason to keep her whole body.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

She wasn't physically in the Dalek case, not unless she'd been shrunk down to three inches tall. That was just her mental image of herself. There was no living quarters, no soufflé, no eggs to make a soufflé, and no physical Oswin.

I think her brain was in the Dalek casing, but most of her body was not, similar to the Glass Daleks of "Revelation of the Daleks" where the Great Healer, Davros, was using the corpsicles of Tranquil Repose to create an army of human Daleks loyal to him.

Or whatever the Emperor Dalek was doing to the humans in Bad Wolf/Parting Of The Ways could be what happened to Oswin.

Maybe Oswin came from that time period and she's actually Clara's descendant, which is why the Doctor will have to make sure Clara doesn't die.

 

[wamdue]

Link no workie outside the UK.

That said, if you're referring to the brief shots of her strapped into some kind of harness, I took that as her when she was being converted, i.e. it's a flashback. The whatever it was that she was attached to was also too large to fit inside a Dalek case.

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120902142202/tardis/images/e/e3/Owsin_conversion.jpg

TARDIS wiki reckons its part of the conversion process as well. Maybe I should go with the majority on this one.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

There's another prequel to "Asylum of the Daleks," this one starring the Doctor and a Headless Monk. It's rather chilling.

Interesting, I'm not sure what to make of all the webisode/extra content as far as official continuity goes.