Remember when transparent aluminum was science fiction?

[Ptrope]

Tougher than Gorilla glass

SCHOTT "Xensation" glass is "a break and scratch-resistant alumino-silicate" that's apparently ready to start hitting consumer devices. Cool!

 

[Trekker4747]

This comes up probably once year, this stuff has existed for a very long-assed time. And it's hardly the same thing as the transparent aluminum we know and love in Trek (it's name suggesting it's more of a metal like aluminum) than this stuff which is a ceramic.

 

[Christopher]

It comes up every few months, and somehow nobody remembers all the previous times it was announced as "news." And yes, it's really a very strong glass that contains aluminum in a role analogous to the role of silicon in normal glass. It's not actually aluminum any more than water is hydrogen.

Then again, it is a very strong form of glass that has potential as transparent armor. So who knows? Maybe people in the Trek universe were just as sloppy about chemical/material nomenclature as we are and ended up referring to a similar kind of superstrong glass as "transparent aluminum" as an error. Or maybe it was originally a brand name that became generic, like escalator and yo-yo.

 

[Mr Silver]

It's not "true" transparent aluminium (I'm British, we spell it differently), if we all forget for a moment that the transparent aluminium depicted in Trek doesn't exist...

All the windows on the starships in Trek are made from transparent aluminium right? So that means not only do they have to withstand the combined forces of a vacuum and a pressurised environment (we can do this already using aluminium silicate glass) but they also have to withstand the forces produced by the warp drive, solar phenomenon, celestial bodies (ships have got pretty close to stars without using shields) and they have to endure enemy attacks (although they quickly fail following the nullification of shields).

I've always envisioned transparent aluminium as being diamond like (extremely durable and transparent) with a super boiling point, like tungsten.

 

[publiusr]

That would be borazon perhaps--but it is opaque
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borazon

it can withstand temperatures greater than 2000 °C (3632 °F), much higher than that of a pure diamond at 871 °C (1600 °F).[3] Other uses include jewellery designing, glass cutting and laceration of diamonds.

 

[Trekker4747]

It comes up every few months, and somehow nobody remembers all the previous times it was announced as "news." And yes, it's really a very strong glass that contains aluminum in a role analogous to the role of silicon in normal glass. It's not actually aluminum any more than water is hydrogen.

Then again, it is a very strong form of glass that has potential as transparent armor. So who knows? Maybe people in the Trek universe were just as sloppy about chemical/material nomenclature as we are and ended up referring to a similar kind of superstrong glass as "transparent aluminum" as an error. Or maybe it was originally a brand name that became generic, like escalator and yo-yo.

I guess it is possible that the T-Al in Trek wasn't "a metal" but also a "very strong glass" since when the saucer crashes in "Generations" we see the windows and such break in a similar way to glass. (Non-tempered glass, but glass none the less.)

But given that it can do the job of a several-inch thick piece of plexiglass at one inch it's always seemed implied to me it is much more of a transparent form of the metal than it is a glass/ceramic material and whenever we see glass shatter in Trek it's because someone forgot the windows/"glass" in Trek is supposed to be T-Al.

 

[The_Baroness]

Then again, it's never been explicitly stated on-screen that the windows ARE Transparent aluminium.

All we know, is that Scotty used it to create the whale tank.

 

[Christopher]

Then again, it's never been explicitly stated on-screen that the windows ARE Transparent aluminium.

Yes it has, in TNG: "In Theory." Data says, "Curious. The transparent aluminum alloy of this window is exhibiting a pattern of transient electrical currents."

(Unfortunately, his calling it an alloy means it must be metallic, ruling out my suggestion above that it's just an inaccurate descriptor for alumina-based armor glass.)

 

[Trekker4747]

Even if it wasn't stated it'd just make more sense to make the windows of the ship out of a durable, strong, material we know exists in the universe as opposed to whatever options there would be out there. The T-Al would be vastly stronger and forgiving of the stresses and forces of super-luminal travel, battles and extreme environments (nebulae and stars) the ship would be put through.

 

[Mr Silver]

I've always wondered why they didn't just do away with windows and instead have holographic walls that project real time images captured from outside the ship? Surely the overall structure of the ship is slightly compromised by the cavities needed to place windows?

 

[sojourner]

^Well, from a production standpoint, windows on the model help establish the scale of the ship.

 

[Trekker4747]

I've always wondered why they didn't just do away with windows and instead have holographic walls that project real time images captured from outside the ship? Surely the overall structure of the ship is slightly compromised by the cavities needed to place windows?

There could be a good psychological reason for having actual windows as opposed to holographic ones. Having real windows may ease any claustrophobic senses one might have and give them a good sense of "connection" with whatever is outside the ship.

I'd also assume the materials and construction methods of the 23rd/24th century would render any structural integrity problems with the windows null. (Not even counting the structural integrity fields of the ship.)

 

[Psion]

...
All we know, is that Scotty used it to create the whale tank.

Actually, Scotty used sheets of acrylic for the walls of the whale tank. He traded the secret of transparent aluminum with Dr. Nichols in exchange for the plexiglass. That's the reason he asked how thick the plexiglass would have to be to support the load.

 

[Christopher]

^Right. It would've taken years for PlexiCorp to develop and refine the machinery to let them actually manufacture transparent aluminum. It's not like they could just look at a molecular formula on a computer screen and instantly reset their existing machinery to churn it out.

 

[sojourner]

The guy even had a line in the movie claiming it would take years.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

But after that, he'd be rich beyond the dreams of Avarice.

It always begged the questions to me though as to why they wanted a transparent tank in the first place. Did they NEED to look at the whales for the few minutes they were in there? One wonders if they had found an aluminum factory somewhere in San Francisco, would it not be easier to bargain with THAT guy instead?

Mark

 

[Christopher]

^But now you know they didn't make the tank out of any kind of aluminum; the formula was just how they paid for the Plexiglas to make the tank.

As for why it needed to be transparent, I'd say, yes, they did need to monitor the whales to make sure they were healthy and weren't injured by bumping into the walls or something. Also, it's not known for sure whether humpback whales use echolocation; there's evidence that they do, but it's not conclusive. So they may have needed some light to avoid bumping into the walls and each other, or just for their peace of mind.

 

[Edit_XYZ]

I've always wondered why they didn't just do away with windows and instead have holographic walls that project real time images captured from outside the ship? Surely the overall structure of the ship is slightly compromised by the cavities needed to place windows?

There could be a good psychological reason for having actual windows as opposed to holographic ones. Having real windows may ease any claustrophobic senses one might have and give them a good sense of "connection" with whatever is outside the ship.

I'd also assume the materials and construction methods of the 23rd/24th century would render any structural integrity problems with the windows null. (Not even counting the structural integrity fields of the ship.)

If I were claustrophobic, I would feel better knowing there's a solid unobtanium (duranium, etc) wall between me and cold, deadly vacuum, as opposed to an inevitably frailer window.

And making holes in a structure weakens its structure of resistance, regardless of materials used - the same structure, without windows, will always be more resistant.


Windows on a starship are an anachronism that makes no sense for someone with the federation's optics/holographics technology.

 

[Psion]

I've always wondered why they didn't just do away with windows and instead have holographic walls that project real time images captured from outside the ship? Surely the overall structure of the ship is slightly compromised by the cavities needed to place windows?

There could be a good psychological reason for having actual windows as opposed to holographic ones. Having real windows may ease any claustrophobic senses one might have and give them a good sense of "connection" with whatever is outside the ship.

I'd also assume the materials and construction methods of the 23rd/24th century would render any structural integrity problems with the windows null. (Not even counting the structural integrity fields of the ship.)

If I were claustrophobic, I would feel better knowing there's a solid unobtanium (duranium, etc) wall between me and cold, deadly vacuum, as opposed to an inevitably frailer window.

And making holes in a structure weakens its structure of resistance, regardless of materials used - the same structure, without windows, will always be more resistant.


Windows on a starship are an anachronism that makes no sense for someone with the federation's optics/holographics technology.

Then there's the ISS ... one of the recent additions was the Cupola module which added a bunch of windows to the station to facilitate observation and research. In addition to the mark one eyeball, cameras and other sensors are pointed out the windows. We can thank the Cupola module for those dramatic time lapse videos of the Earth.

We also don't know how the Starship Enterprise was built. If the ship's hull is made from transparent aluminum with opaque inner and outer skins, windows could be low-hanging fruit on the luxury scale. Or maybe the ship is assembled molecule-by-molecule in such a way as to reduce weaknesses caused by window ports -- the windows themselves are bonded molecularly to the frame they sit in.

The only thing we do know is that, esthetically, spaceships look nicer with windows highlighting their shape.

 

[Mr Silver]

We also don't know how the Starship Enterprise was built.

Well according to ST09, it was assembled on Earth and then launched into space.

If the ship's hull is made from transparent aluminum with opaque inner and outer skins, windows could be low-hanging fruit on the luxury scale.

The ship's hull is made from a metallic compound known as duranium, which allows them, from a production POV to handwave all of the disadvantages of real materials.

Or maybe the ship is assembled molecule-by-molecule in such a way as to reduce weaknesses caused by window ports -- the windows themselves are bonded molecularly to the frame they sit in.

It's a possibility, but again there is the fact that transparent aluminium is a far weaker substance compared to duranium, which still poses a hull integrity problem.