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Maybe the next space opera will be via a subscription service (in USA)

jefferiestubes8

Commodore
Commodore
After seeing an article today on GigaOm about Hulu and original programming I got to thinking maybe the next space opera on television (in the USA) will be via Hulu or Netflix rather than a cable TV network or a broadcast network.
Hulu secured the exclusive U.S. rights for the dark superhero comedy Misfits last summer. The show quickly took off on Hulu and became the most-viewed show on the site for several weeks in a row. Its success on Hulu played a big role in the decision to adapt the show for U.S. audiences.

This kind of testbed role is also one reason why Hulu isn’t insisting on worldwide exclusivity — and the flip side is that the site can actually generate revenue in markets where it isn’t present yet. Revenue that can then be funneled back into original productions. “It makes more money for our producers and it helps us to make more (original content),” Forssell said.

Forssell refused to elaborate how much money Hulu is spending on original content, characterizing the budget for these kinds of shows and movies is currently as “very modest.” However, the site could ramp up its production budget if opportunities present themselves, he said, arguing that the bigger issue currently isn’t actually the money. “The limiting factor is quality,” he said.
How Hulu is becoming a testbed for new TV shows
my bolding.
also
Video streaming might not completely destroy TV, but the practice will change the industry in a major way, if it has not already. Advertisers are going to start putting their money into streaming sources like Netflix and YouTube and minimize traditional TV investments. After all, there is only so much money to go around.
source

So a new space opera franchise with hardly known actors and maybe one known actor could be a space opera that finds it's audience on paid subscription services such as Hulu Plus, Amazon Prime, Youtube (unannounced paid subscription service) or Netflix in the USA and on television in foreign markets.
If this did happen I would think it would not be all ages family friendly approach but more of a AMC, FX, Showtime approach for adult scifi audiences. Would it be gritty or would it be a future utopian society with minimal crime?
Would it be some major hybrid of scifi and another genre like medical or crime? Would it be more of a long term mission where it could last for 3-5 seasons with long character and story arcs? Would it have a lot of flashbacks to Earth?

other relevant threads:
Poll: Would You Watch A New TV Space Opera With Bad CGI?

Does A Space Opera Need Aliens?

The Unfulfilled Promise of Gritty Space Opera
 
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Re: Maybe the next space opera will be via a subscription service (in

Does netflix have a pilot contest? and do they do original programming? or Amazon?
 
Re: Maybe the next space opera will be via a subscription service (in

Does netflix have a pilot contest? and do they do original programming? or Amazon?
Amazon has a test movie contest. Netflix & Hulu are doing original programming but Amazon is in preproduction/production on original programming now.

source


their strategy is just starting to be analyzed and speculated now for their subscription-based Amazon Prime streaming service:
Amazon May Develop Original Content for Prime

Amazon Hints At Original-Content Strategy

Is Amazon getting into original TV?

the company reportedly plans to follow Netflix’s lead and introduce original TV content in the future. Rumors suggesting the Seattle-based retail giant was planning an entrance into the original programming game first surfaced last month,
Amazon reportedly working on original TV content

Amazon hiring creative execs for original programming

Amazon Prime wants in on the original TV series front

As of February, Amazon Studios had paid out over $3 million as part of its monthly and annual contest awards to writers, filmmakers and actors contributing to the site.

Rob Gardner, whose materials for an animated film project called "12 Princesses" won Amazon's 2011 award for "best test movie," received a $1 million prize last month.

Gardner, 34, now said Amazon has an option on 12 Princesses "to make through their own studio."
Amazon also appears to have an interest in internally developing TV, or TV-like, programming. The company has advertised positions with its People's Production Company in Los Angeles, which it says produces projects through Amazon Studios.
In a posting last month, Amazon advertised for a creative executive at People's Production Company "to help develop half-hour comedies for online and traditional distribution."
Amazon has a number of tools in place that could enable it to start distributing whatever content it makes across its own platforms.

The company's U.K.-Lovefilm service offers streaming and rental of films and TV shows, following a model similar to that of U.S.-Netflix Inc. Amazon's Prime service enables free TV and movie streaming
Amazon hints at original content strategy

While comedies are one genre surely other genres will be explored in the half-hour format of 22 minutes of programming and possibly 1-hour format of 45 minutes of programming.
 
Re: Maybe the next space opera will be via a subscription service (in

I certainly wouldn't complain. Netflix is the only way I watch TV anymore anyway.
 
Re: Maybe the next space opera will be via a subscription service (in

Wow, thanks for the answer. It's gonna take me a while to study that post.

It seems a war is brewing between the greedy hollywood clowns and some new giant competitors for first run broadcast space. Good, though what chance do they have against the ins who are so deeply entrenched? It's a money making mega-conglomerate fortress of mediocrity. Maybe it'll be the occupy Hollywood movement.

Though the Amazon contest seems to be giving pennies on the dollar. Netflix's contest looks better and less greedy. Good cop, bad cop, I guess.
 
Re: Maybe the next space opera will be via a subscription service (in

The greedy Hollywood clowns are going to continue winning this contest for a while yet - never underestimate the power of inertia - but it's also obvious where the digital entertainment business overall is moving.

First off, the new environment is going to be as lucrative, maybe moreso, than what we currently are familiar with. The way that it's going to become more lucrative is that global audiences will now be easy for content creators to reach. No more picking your way country by country through middlemen. (That is, the business will be lucrative to some while destroying businesses for others.)

Counterbalancing that is the way in which it will be less lucrative: people don't like paying for content on the internet, where they have been trained to get things free free free. Audiences will resist subscriptions; online ads still have a long ways to go before they are in the same league as TV advertising; and while microtransactions (virtual goods) are a popular way of supporting online games, it's hard to envision how to make them work outside of gamelike environments.

So the key here is to use the global reach as a way of compensating for the cheapskate-internet phenomenon, by assembling niche audiences that cross borders, in effect, "niches" made up of millions of people. There's no reason why you couldn't have a space opera series that has more viewers than even CSI does in America, you've just got to invent an efficient way of reaching all of them.

Going after niches also increases the odds that some will consider what you're selling worth subscribing to. People will spend money on something they absolutely love. To date, TV has been all about getting a mass audience to like something enough to spend some time on it. That's not going to work anymore.

A key point that often gets overlooked is that there's no reason why digital content needs to ape TV, or movies, or books, or anything currently in existence. Movies and TV both have been shaped by the needs of distribution, financing and technology. Once those factors have utterly changed, why stick with the old formats, as if they represent some sort of Platonic ideal?

For instance Amazon could invent some new format that serves as a video/audio companion to a popular book series they already sell. That would make perfect sense, since they've already got the audiences for those books right at their fingertips. Why not go after the most easily accessible audiences first?

I could see entertainment formats emerging that are hybrids between scripted entertainment and games. All digital entertainment is capable of being interactive. The problem with games is that interactivity can be a barrier if it looks like too much work and investment of time (that's why Facebook games are swamping the industry). So it's important here not to latch onto World of Warcraft as another Platonic idea.

You could construct a "game" with a light form of interactivity, where people view pilot episodes of space operas, submitted by anyone who wants to compete in the contest, and the winning entry gets developed into a full series. That's a way of marrying a game format with a scripted format pretty easily.

Amazon's Test Movies are sort of the right idea, but I'd construct it more as a public contest, with a place for people to vote and debate, and no barrier to people seeing the videos immediately. I'd show them wherever possible, on a YouTube channel, Facebook, etc. The point is to get as much awareness and participation as possible. Only after people are invested in their favorite series would I start charging for subscriptions.

And let's not forget cable TV is capable of doing space opera series. That's still perfectly viable even under the "old rules."

Would it be some major hybrid of scifi and another genre like medical or crime?
No, that's the kind of silly compromise that was forced by the needs of broadcast TV, which can't easily and efficiently reach a global niche audience for straight space opera and is trying to marry it with other audiences. The successful approach will now be the opposite - why not divide the medical-show genre into smaller subniches and serve all of them with individual content? This process won't stop with sci fi.

Would it be more of a long term mission where it could last for 3-5 seasons with long character and story arcs? Would it have a lot of flashbacks to Earth?
Flashbacks to Earth should be determined by the need of the story. "Seasons" are another archaic term that's no longer going to matter. TV seasons were created by the need to launch new shows in the fall, which is when the auto industry advertises its new models and demand for advertising is strong.
 
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Re: Maybe the next space opera will be via a subscription service (in

Jeffriestubes8 just posted a web series that happens to have some of the elements I was just talking about.

It's going beyond ad banners to use the series as an advertising vehicle. The idea here is that the series attracts brand awareness, so Dell Alienware probably is paying the bill for the whole thing. And there's a low-effort game element in it as well.

But wow, they should set their sights a little higher if the idea of the series is simply to get a lot of attention for the corporate sponsor, because the story doesn't look remotely interesting to me. Too reminiscent of a million other things, too generic, bad acting.

Joss Whedon just talked about how he'd still love to bring back Firefly. Imagine if Dell Alienware hired him to create a new Firefly web series. Ya think that might get a little attention?

(And yes, there are problems with this idea, starting with the unavailability of Nathan Fillion and probably other cast members. And there's the expense. Maybe it would have to be a prequel about Jayne Cobb's notorious planet-hopping career before he boarded the Serenity. I'm not so concerned about the details of making it happen, just describing the kind of thing that would work.)
 
Re: Maybe the next space opera will be via a subscription service (in

Counterbalancing that is the way in which it will be less lucrative: people don't like paying for content on the internet, where they have been trained to get things free free free. Audiences will resist subscriptions; online ads still have a long ways to go before they are in the same league as TV advertising

Apple however has changed the 'only for free' paradigm racking up billions in sales off of iTunes.

Now that I think about it, I'd think Apple vis a vie iTunes would be a great investment in original content for the company that's sitting on nearly $750 billion sitting in the bank.

Furthermore, 'geeks,' who own and lap up the latest and greatest products they produce I'd think would be an excellent target audience of Apple created sci-fi.
 
Re: Maybe the next space opera will be via a subscription service (in

The top iTunes downloads list just looks like the same heavily-marketed musical acts that would be sold through Tower Records if Tower Records still existed. This isn't a new industry creating new things that have never existed before, it's an old industry that's shifted distribution methods.

I'm sure there are garage bands out there distributing their stuff, but they're not the ones with the clout to get a lot of people to pay 99 cents per song. And iTunes certainly hasn't stopped music piracy. There's no way to calculate how much of iTunes potential profits are being siphoned off by piracy.

The analogy in TV and movies is if TV sets and movie theaters no longer existed and we got all of that through iTunes, too. But who could afford to do that? TV shows and movies cost a lot more to make than music. A garage band can produce a decent song, but how many watchable movies and TV shows get produced in garages? I keep asking for links to web series that are worth bothering with, and the pickings are very slim.

If some major studio decided to go with the iTunes model for a TV series, maybe they could make a go of it. Maybe the chunk of profits being siphoned off by piracy would be a bigger problem for them vs music, because of their higher costs. Nobody seems very willing to try, do they? The efforts being made are pretty low-ball so far.
Now that I think about it, I'd think Apple vis a vie iTunes would be a great investment in original content for the company that's sitting on nearly $750 billion sitting in the bank.

Furthermore, 'geeks,' who own and lap up the latest and greatest products they produce I'd think would be an excellent target audience of Apple created sci-fi.
I think Apple should give it a try, too. But it would be a much bigger risk than just sitting back and letting the studios take all the risk like they did with the music biz, and then swooping in and locking in big profits from selling other people's content.

Apple's already selling TV shows and movies on iTunes, so they've got it made. And if the studios take a risk on web-only content, they're not going to want to share with Apple.

This discussion rang a bell, so I went back and found a story from last month on iTunes hiring an "indie film guy." Sounds like he's going to be finding independent films for iTunes, not in charge of making them. Some co-financing maybe?

Indie films are one type of niche, so that's a good sign for iTunes, but there are plenty of niches that aren't being served by any part of the movie or TV business. Those can't be found, they must be developed.
 
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Re: Maybe the next space opera will be via a subscription service (in

I would love to see something like this. Our TV seems to have two channels: PBS and Netflix (when it's not being used for the Wii, that is).

I wouldn't mind paying a little more for Netflix if the format remained the same to pay for more content like this. No commercials, watch ten episodes of ST TNG in a row if you like, etc.
 
Re: Maybe the next space opera will be via a subscription service (in

people view pilot episodes of space operas, submitted by anyone who wants to compete in the contest, and the winning entry gets developed into a full series.
I would go further in pilot scripts should be sent into one of the big three (Hulu, Netflix, Amazon) as a contest for a specific niche like 'space opera'. The 8 best scripts get produced not during the traditional TV pilot season and with a $3 million dollar budget each. But during a different time of year or 3 times a year. All pilots are finished with color correction and sound mix and posted all over the place like Temis the Vorta suggests (Youtube, the big 3's websites, XBOX Live, Playstation Network) but you have to goto say Amazon to actually vote on the show you want to goto series. Total democratic choice not 12 TV network executives ruling the decision.

Only after people are invested in their favorite series would I start charging for subscriptions.
Well this would work for the first year but after that I think the cat is out of the bag and it will be all subscription-based programming like HBO, Showtime, Hulu Plus, Netflix. All shows would be paid for by the viewers. There needn't be any difference between Showtime's quality and something on Netflix. We will probably see more product placement though. Hopefully subtle.


Only after people are "Seasons" are another archaic term that's no longer going to matter. TV seasons were created by the need to launch new shows in the fall, which is when the auto industry advertises its new models and demand for advertising is strong. [/QUOTE]That is a very strong statement Temis. While we all know there will be 300 linear television channels for a decade to come and it's the subscription-based shows that start whenever the service wants it to.
Mad Men
is starting March 25th for their 5th season and it is acting like a premium cable network with that start date. We all know that kids are out of school and in general people don't watch a lot of television from June 4-August 25th.
There's no reason why specific niche's can't get their show at that time. In most places around the USA kids start back at school around August 25-Sept.8 and vacations end and rhythms fall into place including viewing weekly TV series.
British series, premium cable television, and some network's series like FX & AMC are only 13 episodes. This has been a huge difference with American television being 26 episodes and in the middle of the run showing repeats for a number of weeks. If we had subscription series for specific niche's like space opera and it was marketed and advertised then they would succeed within that group of fans.
 
Re: Maybe the next space opera will be via a subscription service (in

My ideal world is Netflix, streamed to my TV screen, for 99 cents per episode or movie, with no ads, with pretty much everything I can think of available at my fingertips (which is the current situation with DVDs right now - so don't tell me it "can't be done" with streamed content.)

Because TV channels and movie theaters are no longer particularly important, movies and shows don't need to be made to satisfy their demands. We can have one-hour entertainment experiences that aren't cookie cutter cop shows and two-hour entertainment experiences that aren't SFX-heavy shoot-em-ups.

The possible subject matter would be vastly expanded from the narrow range of acceptable content that gets hashed and rehashed so that everything is a remake of stuff we've seen a dozen times before. And yes, we could have one-hour entertainment experiences in the space opera format.

We could have dozens of them in every permutation imaginable. When you're tapping into a global market that must be at least a billion people or two, even niches representing a fraction of one percent become worth catering to. There will be a market for bright and happy space opera, a market for dark and dystopian space opera, a market soft-core space opera porn involving weird alien sex, a market for space opera/Western hybrids, a market for space opera/chick flick hybrids, a market for space opera/Bollywood musical hybrids, and other stuff too weird to think of yet.

The real world is very far from that ideal right now, and for starters, the studios will be digging in their claws and stopping this world from ever emerging because it would represent too much of a threat to their accustomed ways of doing things.
I would go further in pilot scripts should be sent into one of the big three (Hulu, Netflix, Amazon) as a contest for a specific niche like 'space opera'.
Or murder mysteries, or comedy - each niche has its own fans and it would make lots of sense to help people home in on exactly what interests them.

Rather than construct this contest via the distribution channels (and assuming they'll cooperate), how about constructing it as a contest run by a corporate sponsor? The sponsor places content with Hulu, Netflix, Amazon, YouTube and then funnels everyone into the sponsor's website, where the voting occurs. That way you aren't depending on competitors cooperating with each other. Instead, they're all cooperating with an advertiser's brand awareness campaign, and everyone is getting something out of the deal.

it will be all subscription-based programming like HBO, Showtime, Hulu Plus, Netflix
Here's the problem with this - is that four different subscriptions? And add iTunes, Amazon, maybe YouTube wants to charge, too. That's going to add up. Too expensive, too confusing for the consumer.

And my statements about "seasons no longer mattering" are a projection into the future. I also said the dinosaurs will continue to be perfectly viable in the near term, especially cable. Broadcast will be the first to go.
 
Re: Maybe the next space opera will be via a subscription service (in

I dabbled a little more in the Amazon Test movies and they've got a fundamental design flaw. In order to look at the movies (from Amazon's main page, that is), I have to sign up for a "free" trial service (which of course they're hoping I'll forget to cancel) and that means giving them my credit card number.

Sorry, that's too high a price. I want a free peek at what's being peddled before you get my Visa card number! So I checked out the comments section and here's the first thing I read:

For those wanting to watch a movie, pass this by! This is not a movie (yet)! Other similar types of previews are also available and people are leaving comments that they're horrible movies! They haven't even been produced yet. This is one step beyond Story Boarding and the studio is trying to figure out if they want to actually put money into it.
So people are forking over credit card numbers, seeing storyboards and then bitching about it? Whatever could be the problem? :rommie:

Anyway, here's where you can see the storyboard versions for free, no Amazon account needed. One massive problem in letting the general public see them at this stage is how impossible it is to judge them fairly without seeing a much more finished product. My immediate reaction to Sky Pirates was that the dialogue was an atrocity. But who knows, maybe charming actors could make it work?

They can't cheap out on this with storyboards. They gotta put enough money into it to fund production of a finished product. Give us the first half hour of finished product, and then let us vote.

So far my favorite is Zombies vs Gladiators, just for the concept and the Spartacus style. But mostly it looks like a lot of stuff the studios are making anyway and where are the space operas???
 
Re: Maybe the next space opera will be via a subscription service (in

My ideal world is Netflix, streamed to my TV screen, for 99 cents per episode or movie, with no ads, with pretty much everything I can think of available at my fingertips (which is the current situation with DVDs right now - so don't tell me it "can't be done" with streamed content.)

So... basically iTunes? (At least that is what they are trying to accomplish - studios are fighting back against their $1 rental attempt)

Netflix is something different. And I think there is room for both approaches, they are equally valid. They can complement each other.


BTW, I didn't see it mentioned - But Netflix has started with original programming. They premiered the "Lilihammer" short series recently. More will be coming.
 
Re: Maybe the next space opera will be via a subscription service (in

I voted on Amazon for best loglines. Maybe you have to submit a script to do that?

Well at least the fix isn't in anymore in Hollywood. They better look over their shoulders, when they cash their muti-million dollar checks. Ther fun might be over for them in a little while.
 
Re: Maybe the next space opera will be via a subscription service (in

I sincerely hope that the internet starts providing an alternative and some competition to the hollywood drivel that's been coming out recently.
 
Re: Maybe the next space opera will be via a subscription service (in

I sincerely hope that the internet starts providing an alternative and some competition to the hollywood drivel that's been coming out recently.

And you think internet drivel will be better? :lol:
 
Re: Maybe the next space opera will be via a subscription service (in

I sincerely hope that the internet starts providing an alternative and some competition to the hollywood drivel that's been coming out recently.

And you think internet drivel will be better? :lol:

Not if you add it all up and get an average value. In fact, it will be considerably worse, clogged with annoying oranges and piano playing cats.

But there will be so damn much of it, none of us could possibly consume any but a tiny percentage. As long as that tiny percentage is exactly what we want, then we're happy.

And who knows, maybe annoying oranges and piano playing cats are part of that tiny percentage. Each person will decide. The main thing is lots of volume + powerful search capabilities.
 
Re: Maybe the next space opera will be via a subscription service (in

So... basically iTunes? (At least that is what they are trying to accomplish - studios are fighting back against their $1 rental attempt)
If iTunes has everything I want, sure. Let me do a spot check. Here are my top ten titles on Netflix and the results of my iTunes search:

1. Big Love, S5/disk 4 - $3 per episode, so that's equal to $9-$12 for a disk rental which have 2-4 eps per disk
2. Rise of the Planet of the Apes - $4 rental? pfft! what is this, Blockbuster?
3. 50/50 - $5!!! do they think my last name is Midas??? :rommie:
4. Nero Wolfe, S2/disk 4 - not available
5. The Clone Wars, S3/disk 3 - $3/ep, which is BS, they're only a half hour long - that's equal to $18/disk!!!
6. A Better Life - $5
7. Howl - not available
8. Super 8 - $4
9. Take Shelter - $4
10. Naked Lunch - not available

So, they're missing some older TV shows and more obscure movies but more importantly, their prices are at least twice what I'm used to paying. I currently get movies or 2-4 TV episodes for an average of well under $2/disk from Netflix, and they carry almost everything I want (and that I know has been released). The day somebody beats that combo of selection and price is the day I bother with streaming from any source.

Streaming is cheaper for the rental service. They don't need to press disks and incur postal charges. They have no valid reason to be charging more. The prices should be at most $2/movie and for TV shows, it should be more like $1 per ep, make that 50 cents for half-hour eps.
BTW, I didn't see it mentioned - But Netflix has started with original programming. They premiered the "Lilihammer" short series recently. More will be coming.

What Netflix has announced so far just sounds like the kind of stuff we get on TV already. Lilyhammer could easily be on HBO or Showtime, which isn't bad of course, but what does it really add? I've already got a queue full of premium cable series. When Netflix makes a space opera, then maybe I'll take notice.
 
Re: Maybe the next space opera will be via a subscription service (in

I sincerely hope that the internet starts providing an alternative and some competition to the hollywood drivel that's been coming out recently.

And you think internet drivel will be better? :lol:

Not if you add it all up and get an average value. In fact, it will be considerably worse, clogged with annoying oranges and piano playing cats.

But there will be so damn much of it, none of us could possibly consume any but a tiny percentage. As long as that tiny percentage is exactly what we want, then we're happy.

And who knows, maybe annoying oranges and piano playing cats are part of that tiny percentage. Each person will decide. The main thing is lots of volume + powerful search capabilities.

Exactly!!!

Yeah, there will be lots of stupid stuff, but (theoretically) a few things will happen (and what's going on is only the start of that). One is that *more* niche/genre stuff can get out there, because there's less of a need to appeal to the most people, and more of a need to appeal highly to a specific group of people. Also, the costs of producing for online can be lower (not saying all of it will be, but some of it) and allow more choice of stuff to watch and follow. Also, artists, writers, the creators of internet media will have far more creative control over the final product (and the fate of that product) than do the people who work in traditional tv/movies. And then, if we're lucky, the added pressure from internet based sites will force ordinary entertainment to start raising its quality, if not, no big deal because internet media has already allowed people to watch exactly what they want to watch.
 
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