Is the Prime Directive preventing Star Fleet from punishing genocide?

[Gaius]

I recently rewatched the episode "The Survivors". At the end, the Douwd, after having harrassed and almost destroyed the Enterprise and the entire crew, admits that he committed genocide. Shockingly, Captain Picard replies by saying that it was okay to do so and lets the Douwd free.

D: "No, no, no. You don't understand the scope of my crime. I didn't kill just one Husnock, or a hundred or a thousand... I killed them all. All Husnock. Everywhere."

CP: "Are 11,000 people worth... ..50 billion? Is the love of a woman worth the destruction of an entire species?"

D: "This is the sin I tried to keep you from learning. Why I wanted to chase you from Rana."

CP: "We're not qualified to be your judges. We have no law to fit your crime. You're free to return to the planet... ..and to make Rishon live again.

Helm, break orbit. Full impulse."

I understand that the Prime Directive prevents Starfleet from interfering with alien civilizations, but isn't Star Trek supposed to be about the moral advancement of the human race (or other races)? If so, how come the Douwd escaped justice of the Federation, when they catch people for much smaller crimes?

 

[Trekker4747]

Re: Is the Prime Directive preventing Star Fleet from punishing genoci

The guy in Justice didn't commit genocide. Genocide implies a willful act and process by which you methodically go through and eliminate a race. The Douwd alien in this episode didn't do that, in a moment of blind range he simply thought an entire species out of existence. It's hard to really consider that a "crime" as its scale and scope is unimaginable. The Prime Directive? Not mentioned in this episode but it wouldn't apply as the Douwd was a Federation member and, presumably, would be-holden to its laws. But it's really a question if the alien's "crime" can really be grasped and if the Federation really has a prison/penal colony that can contain him. But, really, how do you try someone who thought an entire species out of existence with a single, angry, thought in a moment of blind rage?

 

[sonak]

Re: Is the Prime Directive preventing Star Fleet from punishing genoci

I think this was simple realism and not a PD issue. It'd be like trying Q in a court and trying to hold him on a penal colony. Q committed a lot of acts that were crimes, but what would have been the point of keeping up the pretense that they could charge him for it.

 

[Gaius]

Re: Is the Prime Directive preventing Star Fleet from punishing genoci

The guy in Justice didn't commit genocide. Genocide implies a willful act and process by which you methodically go through and eliminate a race. The Douwd alien in this episode didn't do that, in a moment of blind range he simply thought an entire species out of existence. It's hard to really consider that a "crime" as its scale and scope is unimaginable. The Prime Directive? Not mentioned in this episode but it wouldn't apply as the Douwd was a Federation member and, presumably, would be-holden to its laws. But it's really a question if the alien's "crime" can really be grasped and if the Federation really has a prison/penal colony that can contain him. But, really, how do you try someone who thought an entire species out of existence with a single, angry, thought in a moment of blind rage?

He did commit genocide as he terminated an entire species. There is no indication anywhere in the episode that he would have 'thought them out of existence'. He used his powers which implies a willful act. In any case, a willful act is defined as being preceded by thought, voluntary as opposed to involuntary. Also, simply committing a crime 'in a moment of blind rage' does not let him off the hook either.

If the PD is not applicable as the Douwd was a Federation citizen, the need for punishment applies even more so.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Re: Is the Prime Directive preventing Star Fleet from punishing genoci

Who says that the Federation would have jurisdiction, even if there were statutes in Federation law pertinent to such an offense?

 

[Gaius]

Re: Is the Prime Directive preventing Star Fleet from punishing genoci

I think this was simple realism and not a PD issue. It'd be like trying Q in a court and trying to hold him on a penal colony. Q committed a lot of acts that were crimes, but what would have been the point of keeping up the pretense that they could charge him for it.

This is just an argument for moral opportunism or in other words, nihilism.

 

[Gaius]

Re: Is the Prime Directive preventing Star Fleet from punishing genoci

Who says that the Federation would have jurisdiction, even if there were statutes in Federation law pertinent to such an offense?

And this is just another way of saying that Star Trek endorses genocide.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Re: Is the Prime Directive preventing Star Fleet from punishing genoci

No, it isn't. Not at all.

If Picard says that the Federation has no law to fit his crime, even acknowledging Kevin's actions as criminal, then why can't we take Picard at his word?

 

[sonak]

Re: Is the Prime Directive preventing Star Fleet from punishing genoci

I think this was simple realism and not a PD issue. It'd be like trying Q in a court and trying to hold him on a penal colony. Q committed a lot of acts that were crimes, but what would have been the point of keeping up the pretense that they could charge him for it.

This is just an argument for moral opportunism or in other words, nihilism.

uh not really. I'm not suggesting that there weren't crimes committed, merely that they have no way of seeing justice done.

And as to an earlier point you made, yes there is clear dialogue to the effect that Kevin did what he did unthinkingly, in a moment of rage, and not with deliberate intent.


Still, yes he still did kill them, but as I wrote, how would they charge or hold him? It'd be a sham, only working as long as Kevin cared to keep up the sham.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Re: Is the Prime Directive preventing Star Fleet from punishing genoci

The Husnock are evidently unknown to the Federation. What's the evidence of genocide? An obliterated Federation colony? Worf already essentially said he can find no evidence of the Husnock ship.

Besides, wouldn't Kevin be just as dangerous to the Federation as to the Husnock? Isn't Picard's idea that he should be left alone a really good idea?

FWIW, a few months back, we had a really interesting discussion about the Husnock here.

 

[Gaius]

Re: Is the Prime Directive preventing Star Fleet from punishing genoci

I see your points. The question still remains whether Star Fleet punishes genocide in respect of Federation citizens who are not all-powerful (like Q or the Douwd) and within the 'jurisdiction' of the Federation?

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Re: Is the Prime Directive preventing Star Fleet from punishing genoci

I would think so, I would hope so, but there aren't any hard examples in canon that I am aware of. Memory Alpha's article on genocide in Star Trek is at http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Genocide. Maybe someone familiar with the novels knows whether the subject has been brought up there.

 

[Timo]

Re: Is the Prime Directive preventing Star Fleet from punishing genoci

Considering that Starfleet is an organization created to practice genocide when needed, we cannot assume that it would help prosecute against all cases of it, even if we assume Starfleet is the party charged with law enforcement in the UFP, and possibly even the sole such party. Today, no court on Earth condemns murder categorically, especially across international borders, because of reciprocal needs: the nation represented by the court needs to be able to practice murder in its own terms. This even when the opposing nation isn't a superpower, much less a super-entity like Kevin Uxbridge.

Genocide as such would have to be assumed to be a fairly mundane event in Star Trek style of warfare. It simply doesn't take much effort to eradicate a genus, especially one that hasn't spread to the stars yet. It's more or less inevitable that genocide-related charges in such an environment would come in a whole range from "genoslaughter at diminished responsibility" to "premeditated mass genocide".

On the other hand, the fact that genocide is so easy in Star Trek might lead to extremely draconian persecution of "attempted genocide", of any kind of carelessness that might lead to a genus being lost. Say, life in prison for leaving open the phaser cabinet, or total wiping of personality for failing to file a flight plan for one's antimatter-powered starship.

We have little hard evidence to go by, but we do have some telltale cases. Garak attempted genocide in "Broken Link"; he was not allowed to walk free, but he was not tortured to death, either. He got the same six months of classic Trek incarceration (apparently to facilitate counseling or comparable brainwashing) as Kasidy Yates got for smuggling medikits. Whether his position as a citizen of the Cardassian Union featured in this, and how, we don't know. But apparently genocide is frowned upon in the UFP, for moral or pragmatic reasons, and the law is flexible enough to deal with such seemingly formidable evil - and the PD doesn't present a hindrance in prosecuting a foreign perpetrator.

(To be sure, Garak apparently was charged with trying to spark war, rather than with attempted genocide. Make of that what you wish - it might be that "genocide" is considered melodramatic and meaningless terminology in the 24th century when the corresponding charge of "war", that is, "mass-murder-through-military-conflict", presents the case much more clearly.)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[davejames]

Re: Is the Prime Directive preventing Star Fleet from punishing genoci

Besides, wouldn't Kevin be just as dangerous to the Federation as to the Husnock? Isn't Picard's idea that he should be left alone a really good idea?

Yeah that's how it seemed to me. This was a being with immense, unthinkable power who simply needed to be left alone before he did any more damage.

The fact he was clearly already living with a huge sense of guilt over what he'd done probably made it a bit easier.

Besides, even if you did lock him into a prison, he'd simply recreate his home and wife there too, so what would be the point?

 

[T'Girl]

Re: Is the Prime Directive preventing Star Fleet from punishing genoci

The Douwd killed no Federation citizens, the Douwd himself was not a Federation citizen, the species he "genocided" (the Husnock) were not Federation citizens. According to Picard's dialog with the Douwd, the only Federation crime he committed was the simulated attack upon the Enterprise. In destroying the entirety of the Husnock exactly what Federation law did he violate?

Humans can create a law that says that Humans can not genocide Humans, but the Federation can't create a law saying that one non-Federation race can't destroy a second non-Federation race.

It's a matter of jurisdiction and sovereignty.

Plus, the exact definition of the word Genocide is slightly different depending on where you look, but consistently you'll find the phrase "the deliberate destruction," the Douwd's single, fraction of a second, action wasn't "deliberate."

 

[Trekker4747]

Re: Is the Prime Directive preventing Star Fleet from punishing genoci

The Douwd character was living on a Federation colony, I suspect that'd make him a Federation citizen.

 

[T'Girl]

Re: Is the Prime Directive preventing Star Fleet from punishing genoci

I lived in Japan for a number of years, I was never a Japanese citizen.

If I as a American citizen, killed a non-Japanese, who was far away from Japan, what Japanese law would I have broken? This example admittedly isn't perfect, but if you see what I mean.


")

 

[Timo]

Re: Is the Prime Directive preventing Star Fleet from punishing genoci

The difference would be that the Douwd rather apparently actively pretended to be a UFP citizen named Kevin Uxbridge. He committed his crime under that alias, which should count for something: logically, he would not be entitled to immunity that he conspired to throw away!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Gaius]

Re: Is the Prime Directive preventing Star Fleet from punishing genoci

Still, this can be only regarded as cowardness on Picard's side. I could cite at least a dozen episodes where they are preoccupied with bringing petty criminals to justice - Federation citizens or not. The captain does not give in essily to the Q either who are supposedly much more powerful. This looks as if the writers dropped the balls by ending this issue so abruptly.

 

[sojourner]

Re: Is the Prime Directive preventing Star Fleet from punishing genoci

^You keep missing the point that this would be like a flea wanting to try a dog for murder. It's pointless because there is no way to enforce the penalty even if found guilty.