TOS- Overrated?

[AdmiralScreed]

I love TOS, but I understand your viewpoint. Were I new to the whole ball of wax I might feel the same way.

In its day, it was some of the most thoughtful television on the air. Hence its big following among college kids and high school nerd (lovingly meant) then.

Trying to be objective, TOS has a verve and energy that TNG lacks by design (GR's idea that the crew all get along). Later Trek has deliberately more complex stories (A/B plots) with more character development, I'll give ya that.

But many people feel as you, so I don't know if I'd really call TOS over-rated these days. Well-loved, for sure.

Thanks for the nice and thoughtful response. In retrospective, I probably should not have titled this thread "TOS- Overrated?", but rather "Do you enjoy the spin-off shows more than TOS?", or something along those lines. I don't think it was fair for me to call it overrated because it was a significant stepping stone in science fiction and it tackled a lot of controversial issues back in the day. For that alone I think it deserves its praise, even if it's not something I personally enjoy.

 

[xortex]

It was bland and minimalist. Not everybody likes Beethoven. Lots of people prefer spicy food and Prokofieff for instance but TOS hit the ball out of the universe and can't be rated like a Mozart symphony can't. Or rated GR for Great. The music was off the charts too and incomparable. It was a gestalt.

 

[plynch]

I would agree with the gestalt idea. In the 60s/space age and "of" it, too. The look, the feel, music, specific actors, writers, producers. I suppose TNG gives off a 90s vibe, but I'm just not into it. It was intelligent and thought provoking. I am emotionally biased.

But, MANY people feel as you do, Screed, that TNG is all-around "better."

Picard and Data are nowhere near the cultural icons as "Captain Kirk" and "Spock," of course.

 

[Kelthaz]

I grew up watching TOS as a kid (despite being born in 1985), and although I loved it when I was younger, I honestly can't stand it today. There's a few episodes I find worth watching (City on the Edge of Forever, Journey to Babel, etc.), but other than a select few episodes I think the show is terrible. As for the movies, well, I pretty much adhere to the even-numbered law.

 

[sonak]

I would agree with the gestalt idea. In the 60s/space age and "of" it, too. The look, the feel, music, specific actors, writers, producers. I suppose TNG gives off a 90s vibe, but I'm just not into it. It was intelligent and thought provoking. I am emotionally biased.

But, MANY people feel as you do, Screed, that TNG is all-around "better."

Picard and Data are nowhere near the cultural icons as "Captain Kirk" and "Spock," of course.

Yes, it is important to point out that ALL shows are products of their times, so TOS is no "more" or "less" '60s than TNG is '80s or '90s.

And as someone who did not grow up watching TOS because it was on before I was born, I never find that the look or "vibe" gets in the way of my enjoyment.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

TOS and DS9 are the two that have held up best to the inexorable march of time. TNG seems very dated to me now. VOY and ENT were never good.

 

[AdmiralScreed]

I would agree with the gestalt idea. In the 60s/space age and "of" it, too. The look, the feel, music, specific actors, writers, producers. I suppose TNG gives off a 90s vibe, but I'm just not into it. It was intelligent and thought provoking. I am emotionally biased.

But, MANY people feel as you do, Screed, that TNG is all-around "better."

Picard and Data are nowhere near the cultural icons as "Captain Kirk" and "Spock," of course.

Yes, it is important to point out that ALL shows are products of their times, so TOS is no "more" or "less" '60s than TNG is '80s or '90s.

And as someone who did not grow up watching TOS because it was on before I was born, I never find that the look or "vibe" gets in the way of my enjoyment.

With the exception of some hairdos and some strange wardrobe choices, TNG doesn't feel like it's a product of a specific time period to me. It just has that classic, timeless feel. And that's coming from someone who was born in 1994 and didn't start watching Trek until 2010. Just my opinion, of course.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Depends what you were expecting going in. I love TOS as campy space adventure. It set the mold for all the later Star Treks, Stargates, Babylon 5's etc.

DS9 is, IMO, far too dull and drab.

 

[horatio83]

With the exception of some hairdos and some strange wardrobe choices, TNG doesn't feel like it's a product of a specific time period to me. It just has that classic, timeless feel. And that's coming from someone who was born in 1994 and didn't start watching Trek until 2010. Just my opinion, of course.

In my opinion the TNG has the highest average script quality of all the series. It is sometimes a bit more stiffy, conceptual and dramatically inferior than TOS or DS9 but if you prefer above all good scripts TNG becomes the real classical Trek for you.

 

[AdmiralScreed]

With the exception of some hairdos and some strange wardrobe choices, TNG doesn't feel like it's a product of a specific time period to me. It just has that classic, timeless feel. And that's coming from someone who was born in 1994 and didn't start watching Trek until 2010. Just my opinion, of course.

In my opinion the TNG has the highest average script quality of all the series. It is sometimes a bit more stiffy, conceptual and dramatically inferior than TOS or DS9 but if you prefer above all good scripts TNG becomes the real classical Trek for you.

Of the Trek shows I have seen, I would agree that TNG had the best scripts. Picard's speeches were particularly good, and in general the dialogue was terrific. It wasn't overly dramatic and cliche like DS9 was on occasion.

 

[BillJ]

...it is quite dull at times.

This is the criticism I don't get. The one thing Modern Trek would've done well to copy was the pacing of TOS episodes. Far too many times scenes would just "linger", nothing really going on but the script was too bare to move along to the next scene. TNG was the biggest offender, but it permeates all of Modern Trek.

 

[AdmiralScreed]

...it is quite dull at times.

This is the criticism I don't get. The one thing Modern Trek would've done well to copy was the pacing of TOS episodes. Far too many times scenes would just "linger", nothing really going on but the script was too bare to move along to the next scene. TNG was the biggest offender, but it permeates all of Modern Trek.

I wasn't so much referring to the slow pacing, but rather the general atmosphere of the show. Half the time the crew just sat around and looked bored while Kirk, Spock, and McCoy did all the talking. Often the stories were not deep or complex enough to sustain an entire 50 minute episode, so they were stretched out to their limit, which made for an overly long and dull viewing experience. The Corbomite Maneuver and the Enemy Within were some of the worst offenders. Then again, I haven't seen every episode so there's probably even worse. Keep in mind that I'm not saying episodes were always this way; there were certain shows like the Trouble with Troubles, Court Martial, Amok Time, and Journey to Babel that escaped these flaws and emerged as excellent and enjoyable episodes. But, in general, these fine episodes seem to have been the exception rather than the norm. It's too bad, because if there had been more episodes like these then TOS would hold up a lot better today.

 

[BillJ]

It's too bad, because if there had been more episodes like these then TOS would hold up a lot better today.

Considering that we're still talking about it, that enough people still watch it for it to be on TV and CBS spent a boatload on a major facelift, I think it's held up pretty well.

It's been 47 years since Roddenberry pitched the original concept and 45 since it premiered.

 

[horatio83]

I wouldn't say that the pacing but the "compression" is the problem of the 50 minutes. I like slow paced stories but I don't like something that could fit into 40 minutes being stretched out into 50.

 

[AdmiralScreed]

It's too bad, because if there had been more episodes like these then TOS would hold up a lot better today.

Considering that we're still talking about it, that enough people still watch it for it to be on TV and CBS spent a boatload on a major facelift, I think it's held up pretty well.

It's been 47 years since Roddenberry pitched the original concept and 45 since it premiered.

What I meant to say was that it would hold up a lot better in my eyes, and probably in the eyes of fellow Trek fans who, like me, became interested in Trek because of the sequel shows. You're right, though; TOS is still very popular today with a large amount of the fanbase as well as with the general public. They wouldn't have even considered the 09' film had it not been so popular.

 

[AdmiralScreed]

I wouldn't say that the pacing but the "compression" is the problem of the 50 minutes. I like slow paced stories but I don't like something that could fit into 40 minutes being stretched out into 50.

Exactly! Not all episodes were this way, but there were plenty of episodes that should have either been completely rewritten OR should have had an A-plot and B-plot like they did with the Berman-era Trek shows. It worked with those shows, so I see no reason why it couldn't have worked with TOS.

 

[YARN]

And here we go...

Care to add anything to the discussion?

I did.

 

[xortex]

Corbomite manuver boring? Are you adhd? The threat of destruction was imminant throughout that whole episode coupled with the music and edge of your seat special effects. It might have been an early morning shoot and not the best or motivated acting but the characters were hardly bored. Subtext is a part of that thing called pacing which TNG never had.

 

[BillJ]

I wouldn't say that the pacing but the "compression" is the problem of the 50 minutes. I like slow paced stories but I don't like something that could fit into 40 minutes being stretched out into 50.

Exactly! Not all episodes were this way, but there were plenty of episodes that should have either been completely rewritten OR should have had an A-plot and B-plot like they did with the Berman-era Trek shows. It worked with those shows, so I see no reason why it couldn't have worked with TOS.

It did? The A/B plots were horrendous in most episodes and ended up feeling like padding for scripts that were short the required page count.

 

[AdmiralScreed]

And here we go...

Care to add anything to the discussion?

I did.

Thank you for your thoughtful contribution to this thread.