Gay Marriage? Not in this Bakery!

[Kommander]

Yes, but is there a law against someone taking a job due to those factors? Because that's what I see hiring a professional baker is, someone taking a job.

Would you say this applies to restaurants as well? The arguments you made could be seen to apply here as well. If not a restaurant as a whole, does it apply to waitstaff specifically? Waiters/waitresses work for the customers moreso than they do for the restaurant.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

I don't see how there could be environmental factors that would influence homosexuality. Seriously...I don't get that. I don't think a person would choose membership in a group that is going to incur such discrimination unless we are talking about religion (where people do make exactly that choice, all around the world). And homosexuality is not religion, not, as far as I understand it, something of the conscious mind, but of the libido instead, for lack of better terms. Where do people even get this idea??

 

[BillJ]

Yes, but is there a law against someone taking a job due to those factors? Because that's what I see hiring a professional baker is, someone taking a job.

Would you say this applies to restaurants as well? The arguments you made could be seen to apply here as well. If not a restaurant as a whole, does it apply to waitstaff specifically? Waiters/waitresses work for the customers moreso than they do for the restaurant.

I think it's probably a gray area. Depending on how one see's the baker, is she a retailer or is she a contractor? Or is she both?

Making a wedding cake would require a more in-depth relationship with the customer than selling a brownie I would think.

I could definitely pass bad word of mouth around about a black contractor who refused my project because I'm white. But could I attempt legal remedy if I don't have a contract with him?

I think it's a poor business decision on the part of the owner because I'm sure that every customer has violated biblical law somehow (premarital sex, working on Sundays).

 

[RoJoHen]

I don't see how there could be environmental factors that would influence homosexuality. Seriously...I don't get that. I don't think a person would choose membership in a group that is going to incur such discrimination unless we are talking about religion (where people do make exactly that choice, all around the world). And homosexuality is not religion, not, as far as I understand it, something of the conscious mind, but of the libido instead, for lack of better terms. Where do people even get this idea??

"Environmental" does not imply "choice." A person's environment can include a wide variety of things that affect the way their body and mind develop. Sexuality may be one such trait that is formed during their childhood. Hell, maybe kids become gay because they don't eat their vegetables. Afterall, we don't really have a firm grasp of our sexuality until after we've gone through puberty.

 

[RJDiogenes]

Morality is not limited to harmful vs. non harmful.

Of course it is. Why would I consider something immoral if it's not harmful?

The "problem" (for lack of a better word) with morality is that it's subjective based on the person involved. What one finds moral or acceptable another may find immoral or repugnant. This is because people don't agree on what the source of morality should be. Without being united on who/what determines what is good and what is bad, everyone's viewpoint will be out of sync.

This is totally different than the clear cut, black and white nature of harmful vs. not harmful.

The problem is exactly that: An arbitrary definition of morality based on fear and hatred.

I don't think it is helpful to argue about what is or isn't moral. Focusing on that drags the argument down to a semantic level, i.e. "what does moral mean? Does it mean different things to different people?". You end up lost in an argument over a word, which solves nothing. Evidently it is subjective because you can't get a consistent definition from one person to the next, certainly not all biblical morality is not based upon whether harm is done, and biblical morality is all that matters to many people.

The point is that if the word can mean anything, then it means nothing.

The real answer IMO is, it doesn't matter what "moral" means, all that matters are the objective results of actions. "Who does this affect? How does this affect them?". Morality is something people who live their lives by an ancient book need to worry about, not the rest of us in reality.

Why shouldn't people be concerned about morality? That's why we object to the persecution of homosexuals, isn't it? Because it's immoral.

if its a conscious decision to be gay, surely all straight people would have to choose to be straight aswell?

In the minds of those who believe that homosexuality is a choice, being gay is an activity not a sexual orientation. Homosexual behaviour is just that, a behaviour, one caused by conscious and deliberate rejection of the heterosexuality that nature bestows upon everybody.

That's bollocks though, obviously.

The best part, of course, is how they describe homosexuality as both a choice and decadent. In other words, they wanna do it, but they're holding back.

I don't see how there could be environmental factors that would influence homosexuality. Seriously...I don't get that. I don't think a person would choose membership in a group that is going to incur such discrimination unless we are talking about religion (where people do make exactly that choice, all around the world). And homosexuality is not religion, not, as far as I understand it, something of the conscious mind, but of the libido instead, for lack of better terms. Where do people even get this idea??

It's seems likely that the potential for homosexuality exists in people as a safety mechanism to control overpopulation. If that's the case, then people living in crowded urban areas would be more likely to be Gay. That's an environmental factor.

 

[RoJoHen]

I don't see how there could be environmental factors that would influence homosexuality. Seriously...I don't get that. I don't think a person would choose membership in a group that is going to incur such discrimination unless we are talking about religion (where people do make exactly that choice, all around the world). And homosexuality is not religion, not, as far as I understand it, something of the conscious mind, but of the libido instead, for lack of better terms. Where do people even get this idea??

It's seems likely that the potential for homosexuality exists in people as a safety mechanism to control overpopulation. If that's the case, then people living in crowded urban areas would be more likely to be Gay. That's an environmental factor.

I find this theory incredibly suspect. How would a developing human be aware that its living environment has too many other humans in it? What exactly needs to happen in that environment to get the "gay switch" turned on?

 

[RJDiogenes]

I don't see how there could be environmental factors that would influence homosexuality. Seriously...I don't get that. I don't think a person would choose membership in a group that is going to incur such discrimination unless we are talking about religion (where people do make exactly that choice, all around the world). And homosexuality is not religion, not, as far as I understand it, something of the conscious mind, but of the libido instead, for lack of better terms. Where do people even get this idea??

It's seems likely that the potential for homosexuality exists in people as a safety mechanism to control overpopulation. If that's the case, then people living in crowded urban areas would be more likely to be Gay. That's an environmental factor.

I find this theory incredibly suspect. How would a developing human be aware that its living environment has too many other humans in it? What exactly needs to happen in that environment to get the "gay switch" turned on?

Through any one (or combination) of a million feedback mechanisms. There are plenty of similar examples throughout nature. Many primates in crowded conditions exhibit homosexual behavior. There are species of fish that can change sex to restore the balance in a population after a disruptive event. Living things have all sorts of hidden potential waiting for the right circumstances to trigger them.

 

[Amaris]

Yes, but is there a law against someone taking a job due to those factors? Because that's what I see hiring a professional baker is, someone taking a job.

Would you say this applies to restaurants as well? The arguments you made could be seen to apply here as well. If not a restaurant as a whole, does it apply to waitstaff specifically? Waiters/waitresses work for the customers moreso than they do for the restaurant.

I think it's probably a gray area. Depending on how one see's the baker, is she a retailer or is she a contractor? Or is she both?

Making a wedding cake would require a more in-depth relationship with the customer than selling a brownie I would think.

I could definitely pass bad word of mouth around about a black contractor who refused my project because I'm white. But could I attempt legal remedy if I don't have a contract with him?

I think it's a poor business decision on the part of the owner because I'm sure that every customer has violated biblical law somehow (premarital sex, working on Sundays).

Take me for example. I must break biblical law at least a dozen times a day, most of them on purpose, no less!

 

[RoJoHen]

It's seems likely that the potential for homosexuality exists in people as a safety mechanism to control overpopulation. If that's the case, then people living in crowded urban areas would be more likely to be Gay. That's an environmental factor.

I find this theory incredibly suspect. How would a developing human be aware that its living environment has too many other humans in it? What exactly needs to happen in that environment to get the "gay switch" turned on?

Through any one (or combination) of a million feedback mechanisms. There are plenty of similar examples throughout nature. Many primates in crowded conditions exhibit homosexual behavior. There are species of fish that can change sex to restore the balance in a population after a disruptive event. Living things have all sorts of hidden potential waiting for the right circumstances to trigger them.

Yeah...I know...I just don't like that I don't understand it.

 

[Trekker4747]

It certainly is a "gray area" and, I admit, it's hard to really define it. But I see most professional bakers who are hired to do weddings or other big events as being closer to contractors than they are retailers, as the poster above put it.

At the same time I'm torn on this issue because I do believe that this sort of stuff should not be allowed.

I mean I don't think businesses should be allowed to deny service to people for these types of reasons and if a person goes into a business they should not be allowed to deny service in this manner.

At the same time, we are talking about a professional baker/cake decorator who was sought-out by these people for her services to make a very expensive cake. The Baker is being hired to do something. Something that is a skill.

That is not quite the same thing as a waiter in a restaurant.

I dunno, it's certainly a gray issue and I'm of two minds about it. Eitherway, though, it's fucked up and the baker should get over themself.

 

[RJDiogenes]

I find this theory incredibly suspect. How would a developing human be aware that its living environment has too many other humans in it? What exactly needs to happen in that environment to get the "gay switch" turned on?

Through any one (or combination) of a million feedback mechanisms. There are plenty of similar examples throughout nature. Many primates in crowded conditions exhibit homosexual behavior. There are species of fish that can change sex to restore the balance in a population after a disruptive event. Living things have all sorts of hidden potential waiting for the right circumstances to trigger them.

Yeah...I know...I just don't like that I don't understand it.

Clearly, further research is warranted.

 

[Haggis and tatties]

Well i hope this does not catch on around the world, because having to take a blood test and have three witness to my charactor, before i get a cheese and onion pasty and a icing finger from my local Greggs the baker will cause even bigger queues. LOL

 

[iguana_tonante]

Living things have all sorts of hidden potential waiting for the right circumstances to trigger them.

Cue to X-Men: Origin.

 

[RJDiogenes]

Exactly! There's also gamma rays, cosmic rays, radioactive spiders....

 

[RoJoHen]

Exactly! There's also gamma rays,

Can you imagine is Bruce Banner were gay? That's a Hulk I don't even want to think about.

 

[SmoothieX]

^I'd pay good money to see the Hulk get cornholed. That's riveting TV.

 

[RoJoHen]

She Hulk is actually just regular Hulk in drag.

 

[iguana_tonante]

I am strangely intrigued by that...

 

[scotpens]

Exactly! There's also gamma rays . . .

So THAT'S their effect on man-in-the-moon marigolds -- they make them gay!

 

[Paradon]

I didn't want to say this, but i'm actually bisexual.