Respect for The Way to Eden.

[Smellincoffee]

a 60's band in a 23rd century timeline.

I wasn't suggesting that they would appear as themselves. They would have been protraying the characters that the original actor did, just that they would basically play a piece of their own music in the scene where the hippies give a little concert for the crew.Agreed,

it's ironic how Napier ended up playing hard nosed military types later on. It would've been nice to see him in another Star Trek episode... maybe even an appearance in TNG.

He was in DS9's little green men, as a 20th century general.

He was also in an episode of Roswell, as an old man recounting the summer that he, as a soldier assigned to the base, rescued the aliens. I sometimes wonder if the actor and Frakes ever considered throwing in a little green men reference just to amuse themselves.

 

[Maurice]

One of Eden's problems is that they don't take an allegorical approach. The space hippies are just that, and it's difficult to see past the stereotypes to whatever message was intended. It just made the producers seem "Herbert".

 

[Brutal Strudel]

One of Eden's problems is that they don't take an allegorical approach. The space hippies are just that, and it's difficult to see past the stereotypes to whatever message was intended. It just made the producers seem "Herbert".

Exactly the point I was making with my observation that "This Side of Paradise" is a far better treatment of the "space hippie" idea. With the spores, there was even a potent allegory for euphoric and hallucinogenic drugs: marijuana, LSD, psylocybin and peyote.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I think only people who grew up in the 60's/70's, or have a thing for that era, can truly appreciate "The Way To Eden." Outside that, it just receives shameless scorn.

Nope. It was awful and embarrassing the night it first ran on NBC. I remember.

I hate to tell you young'ns that a lot of us kids who loved Star Trek thought that the third season was pretty bad as it unfolded. The idea that the show suffers from "not being judged by the standards of its time" isn't nearly as true as some younger viewers seem to think. This is one reason that Gerrold writes at length about its problems in The World Of Star Trek, which was written within three years or so of its cancellation.

 

[scotpens]

. . .I hate to tell you young'ns that a lot of us kids who loved Star Trek thought that the third season was pretty bad as it unfolded.

I caught the show on its original network run, and even then, in my teens, I found the third season to be one huge disappointment. “What the hell happened to Star Trek? Space hippies? Oy veh!”

 

[T'Bonz]

I saw The Way To Eden in 1971 when there were still hippies around and it was embarrassing even in the proper time frame.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

I'd imagine it would be more embarassing under those circumstances.

 

[Neutral Zone]

If Jim Morrison would have been on it, would Kirk have thrown him in the brig for indecent exposure?

Probably, he'd have done anything for a quiet life

 

[Mr.AtoZ]

I saw The Way To Eden in 1971 when there were still hippies around and it was embarrassing even in the proper time frame.

Agreed. Probably few remember what it was like back then and what qualified as hippies was far different. However it is worth noting that these were not meant to be the same people. After all it was a different depiction of time. What I enjoyed most about the episode was Spock's suspension of immediate judgment and an earnest desire to learn more about them. It was one of those few moments were you see another unique side to him and so I cannot throw this one into the hate bin.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I'd imagine it would be more embarassing under those circumstances.

It probably was. Most portrayals of the counterculture and of racial issues on network TV were - everything that made it on to a drama had to be completely noncontroversial, inoffensive to a socially conservatively middle-class audience and was pretty plastic. "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" was cringe-worthy.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

An analogous instance from my own youth would probably be that episode of Buck Rogers with the roller disco group. I didn't have to wait 20 or 30 years to know that was awful, either.

 

[Gojira]

I only want to add that The Way to Eden is one of my Favorite Star Trek episodes!

 

[WRStone]

I don't think anything could have really helped. The problem was simply this:

The Space Hippies were meant to parallel the real hippies. The real hippies were driven by experimentation with narcotics and a collectivist theory that couldn't possibly survive long-term. No one knew that at the time, however.

Unfortunately, to really write about the peace movement in the late 1960s, one had to first understand it. One couldn't really understand it without being in it. One couldn't be in it and still produce a weekly TV show: the two activities are mutually exclusive. You were either dropping acid and waxing poetic about collectivism; or you were holding down a real job somewhere (like making a weekly TV show).

Casual viewers who knew about the peace movement from the nightly news didn't find the Space Hippies any more bizarrely inexplicable than the real ones. It wasn't until the movement petered out and we could look at it in historical context that it made sense to the outsiders.

But at the height of it, in 1968-69? Who knew what the Summer of Love meant unless you were there? Star Trek's writers and producers weren't there, so the best they could do was approximate the movement.

It's not a very good approximation, and that became clear very quickly. This is one of those instances where they should've left "Joanna" intact and shot that episode rather than morphing it into something nobody really understood.

Dakota Smith

 

[Redfern]

It's like someone trying to depict, say, an Asian society without having experienced any more than the occasional visit to "Chinatown" to pick up some fried rice and wontons. You might replicate some superficial decor and a few costumes, but having no understanding of the real culture behind those elements. It just screams out ignorance and the least and mockery at the worst.

Sincerely,

Bill

 

[A beaker full of death]

I don't think anything could have really helped. The problem was simply this:

The Space Hippies were meant to parallel the real hippies. The real hippies were driven by experimentation with narcotics and a collectivist theory that couldn't possibly survive long-term. No one knew that at the time, however.

Unfortunately, to really write about the peace movement in the late 1960s, one had to first understand it. One couldn't really understand it without being in it. One couldn't be in it and still produce a weekly TV show: the two activities are mutually exclusive. You were either dropping acid and waxing poetic about collectivism; or you were holding down a real job somewhere (like making a weekly TV show).

Casual viewers who knew about the peace movement from the nightly news didn't find the Space Hippies any more bizarrely inexplicable than the real ones. It wasn't until the movement petered out and we could look at it in historical context that it made sense to the outsiders.

But at the height of it, in 1968-69? Who knew what the Summer of Love meant unless you were there? Star Trek's writers and producers weren't there, so the best they could do was approximate the movement.

It's not a very good approximation, and that became clear very quickly. This is one of those instances where they should've left "Joanna" intact and shot that episode rather than morphing it into something nobody really understood.

Dakota Smith

Oh Crikey.
As Kirk points out subtly to Scotty, he too had had his wild moments as a younger man.
The hippies were not the first generation to question the philosophical underpinnings of the very society that had birthed them. The generation of tv writers had already been through it twenty years earlier. A whole generation of disaffected youth returned from WWII having lived through absolute hell, to find families that had moved on in life without them and no jobs. Most sucked it up; some dropped out and formed the first biker gangs.
Every generation thinks their parents didn't understand them, and never felt what they feel.
The space-hippies were no sillier - if indeed they were silly at all - than the contemporary hippies. Having lived through it is the very reason Kirk et al. are reasonably sympathetic toward them.

 

[number6]

It's like someone trying to depict, say, an Asian society without having experienced any more than the occasional visit to "Chinatown" to pick up some fried rice and wontons. You might replicate some superficial decor and a few costumes, but having no understanding of the real culture behind those elements. It just screams out ignorance and the least and mockery at the worst.

Sincerely,

Bill

More like understanding Spanish culture by eating at Taco Bell.

 

[plynch]

As weak as the episode is, it had some very nice touches. A lost love from Chekov's past, the "lost" youths in search of their place clearly resonating with Spock, Kirk's ambivalence if not outright sympathy towards them... even the generational divide among the officers as Sulu interacts with the hippies.

Yup. I'm a fan. There are far worse TOS eps.

 

[ToddPence]

Five positives for "The Way to Eden":

1. Skip Homeier's performance as Dr. Sevrin. Homeier He does a really good job portraying a man who is mostly stoical but who is also driven by deep emotions and passions.

2. One of the best episodes for Chekov in terms of his character. The relationship between him and Irrina is really very well-handled. Walter Koenig has said that Chekov is out of character for this episode, I disagree, I think he's perfectly in character. In spite of his sense of humor, Chekov has always been a pretty straitlaced, uptight dude.

3. One of the ideas underpinning Star Trek is that future society, as represented by the United Federation of Planets, is supposed to be a Utopian society, or at least as close to one as human beings can achieve. Presenting the idea that there are malcontents even within such a society is an intriguing one, however campily or stereotypically the idea may have been handled.

4. The whole thing with Spock relating to the Hippies is cool and makes perfect sense to me. It's also neat the contrast with Kirk and the other non-Vulcan members total rejection of them and their ideals.

5. The sitar solo Spock does with the blonde chick is a nifty little instrumental.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

RIP Charles Napier

 

[Gojira]

RIP Charles Napier

In just read about this. too sad.