Religion and faith
- Thread starter Ha'kiv
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I plead ignorance. I just looked at the previous posters who used "he" to describe Dorian. Apologies.Dorian is a woman, guys.
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Amaris
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I don't know what you mean by this.J. Allen said:
Simply that I'm speaking from a layperson's point of view. Not as a scientific statement, but as a personal belief. In other words, "wow, look at the universe, it seems so complex and amazing".
Dorian is a woman, guys.
Yes. Yes. Of course. I knew that.
You should apologize. As we all know, I am no example to follow!
To deduce God must exist because the universe is too complex for him not to.. Why am I not allowed to point out that this is not so? Why is it that when it comes to any other subject, it is acceptable to point out flawed logic and argue against someone's statements, but faith gets special treatment? Why not use the "let the guy have his beliefs" argument in all debates?
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Because she's not harming you. Would you go after a person who says peanut butter is delicious? You may personally hate peanut butter, you may find the idea noxious, but unless she's saying "anyone who hates peanut butter lives in a cave", then there's really nothing to challenge, unless one wishes to be petty. Faith isn't some special thing to handle with kid gloves. If you think for two seconds I believe that, dear hell, you may want to hang around me more often. That said, if it's a simple statement that isn't bringing harm to anyone, there's no point in pushing the issue.
Because it's not a scientific or logical debate. I tried, three times in this thread, to prove logically that God can not exist. Once I used a logical proof:
1. If God existed, then there would be evidence.
2. There is no evidence of God.
3. Therefore, God doesn't exist.
I also made the argument first that, in a universe that is so complex that requires a creator, a creator for the creator would also, logically, be required.
Your reply:
How come when I made my argument you accept faith on it's face but when Dorian makes the opposite argument you reject faith as a scientific argument?
Seems like you just enjoy the argument to me.
It is impossible to prove god does not exist - this is why I do not claim that he does not. However, the universe is not too complex to be without a creator - this is my only point and faith has absolutely nothing to do with it. It's a statement about the universe and I have a right to object to it.
Well, God forbid (pun intended) that anyone interfere with your right to argue.
I'm still perplexed that someone who agrees with me that the universe is not too complex to be without a creator felt the need to post the response I quoted above when I said it.
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You can object to whatever you want. Doesn't mean it won't make you look petty and argumentative. Learn to pick your battles. Dorian's statement was one of faith, and a harmless one.
^Unfortunately, I am far too evil to let someone think their faith is rational. He chose observable 'evidence' to try and justify belief - I do not believe this to be harmless. Looking petty and argumentative is the least of my concerns.
What on earth made you think we therefore agree on everything? I don't think the nonexistence of god can be proven. The universe not being too complex is no proof.
Yes, as a matter of fact, I happen to find my right to argue of great importance.
What on earth made you think we therefore agree on everything? I don't think the nonexistence of god can be proven. The universe not being too complex is no proof.
I have no idea what you are talking about.
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Then if you're just going to argue, why should anyone listen to anything you have to say? This isn't just a podium, it isn't merely a soapbox, it isn't a lecture hall. This is a message board, a community, and you're going to get feedback. However, if you insist on arguing everyone down on things that have no bearing on you whatsoever, then people will stop listening to you. That is why you should pick your battles, lest you become the annoying poster everyone talks about, no one respects, and everyone ignores.
I'm sorry, who are you to decide what is important to me? I have strong feelings concerning religion and I will pick my battles, ones which are important to me. I will not ignore them to earn this so-called respect from any of you. If nodding is the only way to earn it, you might aswell keep it. This entire thing turned into arguing because I pointed out that the universe is not too complex, and you happened not to agree with this. I stand by my statements.
How ridiculously biased.
How ridiculously biased.
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Two former Christians turned atheists arguing vehemently for a Christian's right to express faith.
Surely this is a sign of the apocalypse.
Festival! Festival!
What's interesting is that no one has asked you to nod. No one has asked you to agree to everything anyone says. Again, you seem to want to push the issue and argue that you have this right and you have that right, but I will say this; as a private board, your right goes as far as that of the board owner allows and no farther. While you are free to talk about many things, this isn't a free speech community, so no, other than places like TNZ, you can't simply bully or berate people because you feel like bullying and berating people over perceived affronts that you can't tolerate.
Biased? In what way?
Against you? I don't even know you beyond your comments here.
In favor of statements of faith? They're harmless.
It seems you derive more pleasure out of arguing with people who have done you no harm. If you see harm in a simple statement of faith that has no bearing on you whatsoever, then you are going to have a very tough time here.
It doesn't matter whether you have my or boobatuba's respect. That doesn't matter at all, but this is a pretty tight community here and people are welcome, but if you're new and you're more apt to picking fights with people who aren't trying to fight you, you're going to find yourself talking to people who don't care what you have to say because you choose the bully pulpit instead of picking your battles wisely.
If anything, I would say you are a victim of one dimensional thinking. Everything is to be argued; every statement a personal affront. You may not care whether you make friends, or have respect, that doesn't have to matter, but it sure does help when you want to have something more than a monologue.
I would understand your opposition if I was actually challenging someones faith. As this is not the case, I-
Ah, look, there I go again. My apologies, I was not aware that stating someone's statement is incorrect is considered trying to pick a fight. I will be more cautious in the future and try my best to agree with inaccurate statements.
Ah, look, there I go again. My apologies, I was not aware that stating someone's statement is incorrect is considered trying to pick a fight. I will be more cautious in the future and try my best to agree with inaccurate statements.
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There you go again. As I said, you seem to be a victim of one dimensional thinking. Instead of thinking "hey, I'm new here, maybe I should learn the dynamic of this forum before I start heated arguments with people", you've taken all of this as some sort of offense and filled in blanks that aren't there. If this is how you want to do things, I humbly suggest you join The Neutral Zone. I'm sure it will be more to your liking. Maybe.
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You're not exactly smiles and sunshine with us. Neither boobatuba or myself are upset or angry. We're just trying to help you tone down a bit before you bite off more than you can chew, but you most certainly have shown that you vehemently do not like what we are saying.
First of all, it wasn't a man. Dorian Thompson is a woman. Secondly,
is pretty snarky. I'm not surprised she didn't respond to it.
ETA: And yeah, what J. said. I'm certainly not angry or upset.
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