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Is it fair to fine fat people for not dieting?

Yeah weight loss is never easy...and thinking it is...is just silly. T'Bonz is right...you get to a point where you hit that plateau and it sucks...and I think this is where alot of people fall back because it seems like there is nothing you can do and what you are told is ridiculous given the reality.
 
Fining people for being overweight will just make them more determined not to lose weight and they wont go outside
 
Given that the medical profession is ABSOLUTELY FUCKING USELESS when it comes to helping patients with weight loss, they have a lot of nerve taking part in any scheme to fine people who can't lose.

Have you considered seeing a nutritionist? They would probably ask you to write down every single thing you eat in the week, analyse it, and write you a better diet sheet suited to your lifestyle. Not as dicey as messing around with trial and error yourself.

Sometimes, it's the smaller things you don't expect that are the biggest problem - condiments, sweetened hot beverages, glutinous foods - which are harder for the body to break down. For me, it was alcohol and natural unsweetened fruit juices. I used to drink about half a litre of tropical juice a day, and never suspected the natural sugar contained in the fruit could make me gain, but it did! Better to eat fresh fruit, and drink water instead.

Then, of course, we each have a slightly different metabolism, if I eat cheese, salami, or butter, several days in a row, I balloon; but my flatmate can eat those pretty regularly without a single problem. You have to find those things your particular body struggles with most, and eliminate them as completely as you can. The only way to discover this is to weigh yourself daily in the morning before you've eaten. Then you'll begin to have a mental note of the things which make you spike sharply, and you can have an immediate handle on it before it gets out of control and takes you by surprise. A German friend of mine gave me this advice, I thought he was a total anal freak at first, but it really works. :lol:

Also, you can give your body a jump start when you hit that wall by cleansing your liver naturally, improving liver function and speeding up fat-burning ability. It can get clogged up and sluggish with modern diets and hold you back even after you've begun to eat and exercise better. Fresh lemon squeezed into a glass of water in the morning, and milk thistle oughta' do it. I would consult your doctor first though, as Milk thistle is a diuretic, can lower your blood pressure, and you'll need to hydrate yourself properly.

And never underestimate the power of improved blood circulation and massage, exfoliate the areas you want to particularly loose weight in the shower very rigorously. Along with shifting the excess in specific places, it's great for your skin, and sense of well-being in general. Plus, it's pretty tough work, so you're burning calories. :D

Apologies, if I'm repeating what you already know. Someone may as well benefit from the little tricks and tediums I've learned along the way. :cool:

I've lost 12 kilos which had snuck up on me over a couple of years in this way. Bearing in mind I upped my exercise. I walk about 5 miles a day just going about my daily affairs, saved a lot of money on public trasport, too. This allows me to eat as much as I want, within reason. I have a slice of cake or biscuit everyday. For me, life isn't worth living without a few treats. :D
 
No, it is not fair to fine people for such choices or conditions. As has been pointed out, all of us court various risks on a daily basis.

But things like transplant organs should be given to those with the best chance of surviving the operation and making a recovery, rather than to the first in line. That's probably already how it works though.
 
A home-cooked meal made of pasta/bread and vegetable can't be more than $5 for two people.
you'd have to able to cook to do that - if you can cook, I think it's like reading, you can't understand how some people don't have any basic skills in that area. The idea of making a pasta sauce from scratch would stress out a lot of people I know - it's a bottled sauce full of sugar and crap or nothing.

As I said before; how much skill does it take to open a tin of tomatoes? It seems that this argument is revealing the true problem of Fat America: complete ignorance about how to cook. Several people here said that basic dried foodstuffs are cheap. There's no way a tin of spaghetti costs more than a handful of dried and a tin of tomatoes and the second will stretch to about twice the volume of the former, without the added shite.
 
Anyone have any good resources for cooking for ONE person? Some recipes can be cut down easily but others don't seem to be. (I try to make sure I get my vegetables anyway, though, and am not having any weight issues though I could stand to exercise more.) My metabolism is crazy fast and burns a lot of what I throw at it despite being a lazy bum--but I know that won't last forever.
 
A lot of you are throwing around reasons that take responsibility away from the person--"the grocery store is too far away", "they don't have a car and can't get any decent food", "they don't know how to eat anything but crap", etc. That may be true for some people, but I've never known anyone like that and I've known plenty of obese people. So there may be people with those challenges, but they are certainly the minority. If those are the real reason, or even major contributing factors, there should be a much higher rate of obesity among people who fit those descriptions. Where are those data?

I just don't believe the reasons you all are giving are a factor in any but a small minority of cases. I also don't believe food is the major issue. 50 years ago people ate worse than we do now and there were a lot fewer obese people. We eat a lot more sugar now, but less fat. The main thing, however, is that we're not nearly as active as we used to be. Parents are scared to let their children play unsupervised, so now kids don't roam around doing all the active stuff they used to. They only play with friends when their parents get together and arrange a play date. They only play outside when their parents take them to the park. That doesn't happen often because both parents are working and don't have the time. Their yards are too small to play any real games, so they sit inside and play video games and watch TV. Adults work all day in an office then go home and sit in front of the TV or computer all evening. They might go to the gym a couple hours a week, but that pales in comparison to doing actual physical work. Food is a factor, but I believe changes in activity levels are a much larger factor.
If you don't mind my asking, how many of those obese people that you know are existing at or below the poverty line? Because that's who we're talking about when we are considering fining Medicaid beneficiaries for unhealthy eating. If you have the means to get to a supermarket, can pay the extra money for healthy ingredients, have access to a computer or a class to learn how to cook, then that's on you that you're not doing it. And your insurance company (which is collecting monthly premiums from you and/or your employer) doesn't give a rat's behind about it until you end up in (very expensive) ICU with a triple bypass -- until then, they're not fining you.

Laying down a rule without examining the obstacles to compliance, or as T'Bonz points out, actually helping people learn how to lose weight is pointless.
 
The plateau is very frustrating especially when I'm highly motivated to get the last bit off. They never have any solutions other than "eat less or work out more" and after a point, that stops working.

My two cents.

If you aren't varying your exercise routine, do so. I'll often fall into the habit of sticking to a routine with my exercise and the problem is that your body becomes used to it. If you completely vary it up, your body should respond.

As far as eating, I know people that swear by 5 small meals a day. My stomach does not agree with me doing that so I've never done that for any extended time, but I know friends that have had dramatic weight loss by using that diet route.
 
^True, to what you said about varying your work out so your body doesn't get too used to it.

People who go to school are forced to go to Gym Class (or P.E), once you leave school, you're no longer forced to do that, well I think it's about time somebody imposed this fat fine, either excerise or pay up, eat right or pay fine, it's radical, but it's the kick in the back side some people so sorely need.
 
Given that the medical profession is ABSOLUTELY FUCKING USELESS when it comes to helping patients with weight loss, they have a lot of nerve taking part in any scheme to fine people who can't lose.

I think physicians can only do so much. They can't teach you how to cook, they can't address your emotional problems, or get at many of the underlying issues that are part of someone's weight problem. They can tell you what a safe rate of weight loss is, dispel some myths about dieting, and advise you about caloric intake and exercise. I think when it comes down to the details, you have to seek the help of other professionals such as nutritionists, personal trainers, and therapists.
 
Many over weight people tend have such bad habits, like drinking Soda and sitting down... You have to understand that these individuals aren't going to just embrace change, with out a fight. They simply might be too set in their ways.
 
Given that the medical profession is ABSOLUTELY FUCKING USELESS when it comes to helping patients with weight loss, they have a lot of nerve taking part in any scheme to fine people who can't lose.

I think physicians can only do so much. They can't teach you how to cook, they can't address your emotional problems, or get at many of the underlying issues that are part of someone's weight problem. They can tell you what a safe rate of weight loss is, dispel some myths about dieting, and advise you about caloric intake and exercise. I think when it comes down to the details, you have to seek the help of other professionals such as nutritionists, personal trainers, and therapists.

True and instead of getting fined and the money going to the state...it could go to paying for those professional's help. :mallory:
 
Why not just lead an active lifestyle and eat right? Excerise is fun, you'd be a moany ol' moron if you're all like
"Well that's just too hard"
"I'm going to have me some diet pills instead, that'll fix me."
 
But there are many issues that lead to being obese...it isn't all about people being lazy and stupid leading to them being fat.
 
It's about ignorance, I think.
Not eating right, not keeping fit, haveing comfort zones where you don't have to do anything, maybe having your favourite/favorite food too... I really do think it boils down ignorance and bad habbits.

We have this thing here, called your 5-a-day.
Now, to anyone who may not be familiar with your 5-a-day, the 5-a-day is this reccomended British diet/eating habbit thing.
Basically, it says, EAT 5 portians of fruit or vegitables a day.
Pineapples in Juice = 1 portian
Oranges = 1 portian
I told this to a friend I have in TX who wants to loose weight, she said, if she just had grapes 5 times a day, that'll be right, but it wasn't I explained; If you have 5 portians of grapes a day, that'll count as 1 portian. Your 5-a-day MUST consist of 5 DIFFERENT fruits or vegitables, a day, and that is your 5-a-day.
 
Ignorance, yes...habits, yes...but also emotional and physical issues...stress. It isn't as simple as just eating right and being active...that may get you to a point...but what prevents you from sliding back? It is more complicated than people think.

[edit] As said before...cutting excess sugar out of your diet will help...drink water...eat as much fresh fruits and veggies as possible...I did this a few years back and lost 20lbs in a month and lowered my blood pressure...I really need to be doing it now. :lol: :sigh:
 
Emotions are for the weak.


KIDDING.

That is a very poor but valid excuse.

It's such a shame that those who can't for what ever reason, can't do the simplest of things for it.

Feeling good and having more energy is what keeps you from falling back, thinking it's hard and such a struggle is what prevents you from doing anything.
 
Emotions are for the weak.


KIDDING.

That is a very poor but valid excuse.

It's such a shame that those who can't for what ever reason, can't do the simplest of things for it.

Feeling good and having more energy is what keeps you from falling back, thinking it's hard and such a struggle is what prevents you from doing it.

I think for some people, there are additional barriers. It's not that it makes it impossible, it just makes it that much harder. I can't eat most fruits and some vegetables, so I really have to try hard to meet certain nutritional requirements. I'm allergic to everything outside (and some things inside), plus I have a really bad back, so my exercise is limited to cardio machines in the gym when I'm not in immense pain.

These aren't things that should stop be from being fit and healthy, it just makes it more difficult and it's easier for me to make excuses about making poor diet and exercise choices.
 
Well, you can give as many excuses as you want, the bottom line is, I wouldn't worry unless your standard of living is effected by poor diet and no excerise/Or you live in that part of AZ (or the whole of AZ) where'd you'd fall into that bracket of; fine or diet.

I have no sympathy for those who drink soda and hate water, even if tap water is rank, bottled water 'here' is cheaper than soda.
 
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