Lentils! Welcome to the world of daal.
Is it fair to fine fat people for not dieting?
- Thread starter JoeZhang
- Start date
Lentils! Welcome to the world of daal.
Yes, but that ignores the reality of the situation. For example, a generic mac and cheese (the kind with the envelope of powdered cheese) goes for 3 boxes for a dollar at a discount supermarket. A bag of apples? 99 cents a pound (say 4). The former will feed your family of 4 for 3 days. The latter is a snack. The part of the meal that will stretch to feed your family is the starch (pasta, rice, white potatoes, rolls or bread), so you will have that every night. If you limit the carbs (as most successful diets do these days), it's hard to stretch the veg and proteins (unless, as Kestra recommends, you learn how to cook lentils) to feed everyone for a meal. And you're constantly taking the bus to the supermarket (since there are rarely anything higher than corner store in poorer neighborhoods) to get fresh produce because it doesn't keep for a week -- which costs money.
Even when you go out, say, to a Burger King, the salad choices are rarely on the Dollar Menu. What is? Deep fried chicken, french fries, hamburger.
Until restaurants and food distributors make healthier choices less expensive than non-healthy choices, low income folks will always be fighting food-related obesity.
If AZ wants to change the diet of its Medicaid beneficiaries, it at least needs to put the money and time into teaching people how to make healthier cooking and eating choices. Getting a "strict diet" from your doctor (during the 15 minutes the guy has to spend with you to address all of your issues) is like handing me a Spanish/English dictionary and expecting me to become fluent.
But that's not the reality of the situation. Millions of people eat nothing but junk and are as thin as a rake. The reality of the situation is the quantity of food people eat, not the quality.
Do you really think that poor people are gorging themselves on unlimited food? I'm not talking about people you see on The Biggest Loser, who consume thousands of calories at each meal.
I'm talking about families who feed their children breakfast cereal and milk for many meals because it's cheap -- cereal that contains high fructose corn syrup as its first or second ingredient. I'm talking about families who rely on schools to feed their kids breakfast and lunch from September to June (the same children who go hungry in July and August because school's out), which menus contain fat and starch at unhealthy levels because that's how school systems can afford to buy in bulk and feed thousands of children every day. These kids are still hungry, and still fat because of the amount of fat and calories they are consuming on the tray, not because they are overeating.
I'm talking about families who feed their children breakfast cereal and milk for many meals because it's cheap -- cereal that contains high fructose corn syrup as its first or second ingredient. I'm talking about families who rely on schools to feed their kids breakfast and lunch from September to June (the same children who go hungry in July and August because school's out), which menus contain fat and starch at unhealthy levels because that's how school systems can afford to buy in bulk and feed thousands of children every day. These kids are still hungry, and still fat because of the amount of fat and calories they are consuming on the tray, not because they are overeating.
One of the biggest problems is that people are taking too many calories via liquids - a study in the Journal of the American Dietetic Association indicates that americans take in 22% of their calories via liquid - but because they under-estimate the calorific value, they end up over-eating. Frijj milkshakes are popular here but they are almost 400 calories each.
Well I think the first part of your sentence suggests that they do overeat (and of course they do) - the body trying to compensate for lack of good food. Eat a bag of chips - your stomach is full, but you don't feel nourished.
We also have the insidious liquid fat of soda. I'm no luddite, but around the turn of the century the average sugar intake was 20g/day. A coke has, I believe, 39g and two servings in a bottle. Gee, why is there an epidemic of childhood obesity and diabetes?
I think we're a generation or two in now to widespread ignorance about what a good meal is. People really, truly, do not know, do not read labels, and are just fucking lemmings about too many things. I base this on observations working in a group home. The staff are all poor, of course, and 75% of them really have no idea how to cook, much less cook healthy. I have disabled people in their 40's-60's being fed mac & cheese, hot dogs, and syrupy orange juice, and no one bats an eye!
Any vegetables, herbs, or good food we get in the house will rot before anyone but me uses them. All the prepackaged, processed shit goes first, and when it runs out, they literally say "we have no food in the house".
* ^ on the same page/thought as Joe on the soda
Yeah, I can't fathom how pasta and bread are considered fattening and unhealthy food in the US. How comes we Italians eat mostly that, yet we are the slimmest, sexiest country in the western world, maybe second only to France? The idea that carbs are the source of all evil in nutrition is crazy. If the choice is between a good dish of pasta with tomato sauce and a Big Mac Menu with a milkshake on the side, I think I know what is better for my weight and health.
"Bless me, Dark Lord, and this thy gift which I am about to receive from thy bounty, through Satan, our Lord. Amen!"
*Pops pill*
iguana, it's hard to make the comparison because much of the cheap food available to the low income population here is processed and packaged to prolong shelf life, with most or all of the nutrients and fiber refined right out of it. And as CaptainStoner and JoeZhang point out, this is combined with a diet heavy on hidden sugars, like soda, to produce people whose metabolism cannot process the carbs and sugars they're eating, leading to Type II diabetes.
When you're talking about people who depend on Medicaid, you can never edit economics out of the decisionmaking process. You might know that the pasta dish is better for you than the Big Mac and shake, but (1) good luck trying to find a restaurant to get such good pasta in low income neighborhoods, and (2) if the pasta dish (w/o drink) costs $9 and the Big Mac and shake cost $7, it's not going to matter so much which is healthier.
Nowhere Man
Commodore
"making a rule like this would divide the people into "haves" and "have nots". It would create an undying resentment against the landowners and could do nothing but cause discord." John Rutledge on giving only landowners the right to vote. John Rutledge is a Founding Father from SC.(my home state) and sat on the Comitte of Detail during the Constitution Conventioin.
Though this quote is about land ownership, I think the general principle applies. This and other laws like it creates two sets of people and gives a certian "class distinction" to those who are the good side of the law. I think what this law is really about is eliminating people from medicaid and medicaid it's self.
All of that bieng said, it is only Arizona, so the tenth amendment applies here. Do I think it's wrong, yes, do I think they have a right to make thier own laws, yes. So, what do you do? I don't know, but I would hope those people fight it.
Though this quote is about land ownership, I think the general principle applies. This and other laws like it creates two sets of people and gives a certian "class distinction" to those who are the good side of the law. I think what this law is really about is eliminating people from medicaid and medicaid it's self.
All of that bieng said, it is only Arizona, so the tenth amendment applies here. Do I think it's wrong, yes, do I think they have a right to make thier own laws, yes. So, what do you do? I don't know, but I would hope those people fight it.
Nowhere Man
Commodore
no shit, your point?
A couple of questions
Is a loaf of multigrain or wholemeal bread dearer than a loaf of white bread in the USA? Here they tend to be the same price though prices differ between brands.
What are the cheapest fruits and vegetables in the USA? In Tasmania, carrots and onions are always cheap. Apples are probably the most affordable fruit.
Is a loaf of multigrain or wholemeal bread dearer than a loaf of white bread in the USA? Here they tend to be the same price though prices differ between brands.
What are the cheapest fruits and vegetables in the USA? In Tasmania, carrots and onions are always cheap. Apples are probably the most affordable fruit.
J
Jetfire
Guest
Different stores have different prices but if you are interested look at this circular; http://foodlion.mywebgrocer.com/Cir...136a37-7e2c-4e2f-9fef-8911a0d907d2&uc=7B35461
It shows stuff on sale and what the price is without the store discount.
Unless your burn off what you eat, it doesn't really matter what you eat, but health food is always better for you, even if it means you're eating less for your Buck. Also I guess, don't eat eat eat health food. Eat little often, never fill up, always have 3 meals a day, no sweets, have a rest day for sweets and no exerise, if you fill up it's stomach stretching, if you decided to compensate by eating a butt load of food on a health food binge, do something else instead.
^^My point, you said that because you can make your own laws, only land owners get the vote, so I'm lead to believe that, if you're poor and living there with no assests or land to your name, maybe no job, that you're not going to get a vote, because you have no land. - It's a funky world we live in.
^^My point, you said that because you can make your own laws, only land owners get the vote, so I'm lead to believe that, if you're poor and living there with no assests or land to your name, maybe no job, that you're not going to get a vote, because you have no land. - It's a funky world we live in.
Different stores have different prices but if you are interested look at this circular; http://foodlion.mywebgrocer.com/Cir...136a37-7e2c-4e2f-9fef-8911a0d907d2&uc=7B35461
It shows stuff on sale and what the price is without the store discount.
Looking at the last page your fruit and vegies are much cheaper than in Tasmania and yet I consider Tasmanian fruit and vegetables to be cheap. I will come back later with some comparative prices for Tasmanian produce.
And your meat is incredibly cheap.
