TV Science-Fiction: A Genre In Decline on TV?

[jefferiestubes8]

I chose this title for the thread to discuss the SciFi genre on television and if it is in a decline.
Last year airlock alpha had an article with a similar title:
SciFi 101: Science-Fiction: A Genre In Decline?


There was an older thread that covers similar ground but not specifically if there is a decline.
Why is there no pure Sci-Fi on TV today? Part Deux

For the 2011-2012 season there was some buzz this week that Fox's sci-fi pilots may not end up going to series.

Meanwhile, I hear Fox's new crop of dramas may not include a sci-fi entry this year as both LOCKE & KEY and ALCATRAZ have cooled off, though the time travel-themed mystery Alcatraz still has loyal fans among the higher-ups. With the network recently renewing Fringe for a full season, it has secured the genre's presence on the network for fall and has protected its good relationship with Fringe executive producer JJ Abrams, who also produces Alcatraz, in case the pilot doesn't go.

http://www.deadline.com/2011/05/primetime-pilot-panic-2nd-hot-list/

We'll see what happens as this is not in stone and still during the Spring when Fall TV series are getting picked up.

I don't think I need to get into all the details of SyFy channel's programming selections for 2011 with the non-scripted programming.
Do we need a new Sci-Fi TV channel for newer scifi scripted series and reruns of shows from the past 15 years?

 

[Mistral]

I chose this title for the thread to discuss the SciFi genre on television and if it is in a decline.
Last year airlock alpha had an article with a similar title:
SciFi 101: Science-Fiction: A Genre In Decline?


There was an older thread that covers similar ground but not specifically if there is a decline.
Why is there no pure Sci-Fi on TV today? Part Deux

For the 2011-2012 season there was some buzz this week that Fox's sci-fi pilots may not end up going to series.

Meanwhile, I hear Fox's new crop of dramas may not include a sci-fi entry this year as both LOCKE & KEY and ALCATRAZ have cooled off, though the time travel-themed mystery Alcatraz still has loyal fans among the higher-ups. With the network recently renewing Fringe for a full season, it has secured the genre's presence on the network for fall and has protected its good relationship with Fringe executive producer JJ Abrams, who also produces Alcatraz, in case the pilot doesn't go.

http://www.deadline.com/2011/05/primetime-pilot-panic-2nd-hot-list/

We'll see what happens as this is not in stone and still during the Spring when Fall TV series are getting picked up.

I don't think I need to get into all the details of SyFy channel's programming selections for 2011 with the non-scripted programming.
Do we need a new Sci-Fi TV channel for newer scifi scripted series and reruns of shows from the past 15 years?

Can't we just try to convince the one we have that it's ok to air science fiction?

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Before the bad buzz news broke on Sunday, I was thinking this was going to be a better-than-average year for sci fi. Now it's looking average. So I don't think it's a sign that sf/f is being overtaken by something else, only that it's struggling in the mix as much as ever.

The biggest lack is space opera. We're getting some alien invasion shows like Falling Skies, but it's just not the same. I like my aliens in space, not on Earth, where they tend to make a mess.

Locke & Key sounds great so I wish its prospects were better, but it really belongs on basic cable, not broadcast. Maybe the producers can shop it to AMC, TNT or FX.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

How much programming time on commercial television ought reasonably be taken up by an expensive-to-produce genre that tops out at four or five million viewers per hour?

 

[startrekwatcher]

Objectively yes--look at how many get canned over the last several years--Caprica, V, The Event, Flash Forward, Invasion, Surface, Threshold, Heroes, Persons Unknown, Life on Mars.

However, I don't blame the genre--it is a perfectly valid and worthwhile genre that still can be good the problem is the writing and the style they adopted. There are inconsistencies, plot holes, tired ideas.

LOST ushered in a new storytelling format--one I would argue became too complicated and unwieldy for viewers and ultimately the writers themselves--too many characters to follow, an intricate mythology detail intensive, years of dragging out answers with the promise that the viewers' patience would be rewarded in time. SFF shows attempted this as well and it is too hard to pull off--LOST failed to pull it off. Writers started piling on dozens of mysteries and plot points and thinking like LOST they could barely deveop them then set them aside for years and somehow that would work--you end up with botched mythologies. That's taught viewers to expect that it isn't worth investing in such mythologies since they are never satisfyingly resolved.

SFF shows I've been saying for a while should get back to basics--a modest ensemble of interesting characters, only a few mysteries and season long plots and back to linear storytelling. Don't try to be complex and difficult for viewers to follow with non-linear storytelling, ADD pacing, flashbacks, answers taking years if they ever come at all.

Another problem is none of the latest batch of shows are new or fresh--they are content just recycling stories you've seen forever on any of the older sff shows. Fringe just tells warmed over TXF stories. ENT recycled Trek chestnuts for its first two years. V didn't try to come up with a fresh motivation for their interest in humanity--it was stuff we had seen before--aliens intrigued by emotion, a Queen, soldier drones with a bunch of tired terrorism allegory. SGU wanted to be BSG. SGA was just too childish for adult tastes and copied in a lot of ways Trek--the Wraith were just Borg.

It also didn't help they didn't have interesting characters on shows like V or Flash Forward. Caprica was boring and glacially paced. No Ordinary Family was doomed to failure aping most of Heroes just so soon after it was put out to pasture.

So it shouldn't come as a surprise networks will just see one failed sff serial after another and argue there isn't an audienced for it and not pursue them on their schedules instead of realizing it was the bad writing that drove people away.

People just want interesting characters, solid writing and fresh ideas that the jaded masses haven't seen a million times.

 

[Sindatur]

StarTrekWatcher, though V is certainly in danger, and probably more likely to be cancelled than to be renewed, so far, it's fate is unannounced. They are waiting until the final hour before the "UpFronts" to actually announce Cancel or Renew (Unless I missed the "UpFronts", and it was already announced?)

 

[DeepSpaceWine]

SGA was just too childish for adult tastes and copied in a lot of ways Trek--the Wraith were just Borg.

SGA's average audience age was in the 40s. SGU, despite appealing to a younger demo by its writing, actually skewed older. So, how is SGA childish? It was family sci-fi. Parents could watch with their kids, get them hooked on sci-fi, same way baseball is transmitted from generation to generation. SGU lacked that (sex in the closet in the 1st episode sealed that).


And Lost rehashed the same writing mytharc structure as X-Files: make stuff up as you go along, don't keep track of it all, offer lame resolutions that give no payoff to following all the details or trying to solve the puzzle, and give a finale that offers no resolution to the mystery, just to the characters (put them together in a happy place or at least they have each other). Ironic, the old time whodunits that seem so trite now (Murder She Wrote, Perry Mason, etc) were better written than either of these series. They at least aways tried to offer their viewers the payoff of a resolution that followed from the facts in the episode.


More broadly, sci-fi always had booms & busts. Obviously it was big in the mid '50s- late '60s (took a while to get to tv because of the stigma factor). It was dormant for most of the '70s, Star Wars touched off a brief resurgence (Buck Rogers, original BSG), but the next boom came in the '90s with the success of TNG & a booming syndication market with the appeal being in non-conventional niches like sci-fi, fantasy/action. The rise of first-run Sci-Fi programming gave a niche when the syndication market disintegrated and the strength of the Stargate franchise contributed to that too. Over the '00s it fizzled out (with the decay within the franchises like Trek & Stargate being visible for seasons before the end), though it was surprising broadcast networks tried some sci-fi recently (V, etc).

The declining ratings of sci-fi shows that the sci-fi audience is either shrinking (unlikely) or the new shows are not appealing to a portion of the sci-fi audience. TNG still does well in reruns so it's not people necessarily wanting fresh/new. It just seems like the current crop of shows lacks appeal beyond a small fanbase.

 

[Kelso]

What, again?

 

[startrekwatcher]

So, how is SGA childish?

I guess campy would be better. McKay was just a joke and the humor they were constantly incorporating into the show just seemed juvenile and corny. The stories were fairly lightweight and stale. Dr. Who is more childish.

Ironic, the old time whodunits that seem so trite now (Murder She Wrote, Perry Mason, etc) were better written than either of these series.

I enjoyed Murder She Wrote but I don't think you can compare the two. Standalone mysteries are an hour long. LOST was essentially a mystery taken to the Nth Degree that had both major series spanning mysteries as well as little ones resolved fairly quickly. It ultimately failed IMO because instead of sewing these various threads together into one massive intricate narrative tapestry it left so many mysteries dangling with no development or resolution. That's why I think the perfect middle ground between episodic and the complex LOSTesque shows that are so interconnected and drag on for years are season long serialization so you don't have to sacrifice arc storytelling yet not grow frustrated by endless stalling tactics and payoff years away. I'm thinking of Heroes S1, ENT's the Xindi arc.

TNG still does well in reruns so it's not people necessarily wanting fresh/new.

It is also a testament to TNG that the episodes are endlessly rewatchable and the characters are interesting and likeable. One of the worst ideas of the past decade and one that has worn out its welcome is the asshole character where writers go out of their way creating a totally unlikeable character--a lot of BSg, House in the non sff genre. Or they cast weak actors or the characters just aren't compelling and easily forgettable.

 

[Meredith]

When is Sci-Fi never in danger of a Decline?

Sci-Fi is a genre that depends on the education level of the people watching it to be high.

We are getting dumber, ergo Sci-Fi is in decline.

 

[DeepSpaceWine]

It is also a testament to TNG that the episodes are endlessly rewatchable and the characters are interesting and likeable. One of the worst ideas of the past decade and one that has worn out its welcome is the asshole character where writers go out of their way creating a totally unlikeable character--a lot of BSg, House in the non sff genre. Or they cast weak actors or the characters just aren't compelling and easily forgettable.

It's also the writing. Many TNG era Star Trek episodes may not be great, but they are watchable and at least mildly entertaining. The writing was usually consistent (overly campy or non-Trek-feeling episode aside). The cast is mostly likeable (Pulaski was the closest to an asshole character. McCoy had some charm and he was being a foil to Spock who had a hint of arrogance who liked lording logic over these primitive humans. Data being an android felt no smugness or arrogance. Pulaski projected her own onto him. They tried to make her a new McCoy but she just came off as incredibly mean and prejudiced against Data).

I agree, the asshole characters are incredibly grating. I don't see the appeal, though I can understand if assholes like seeing other assholes. It gets old really fast. In the Stargate franchise, the casts of SG1 & SGA were liked much more than SGU, which was packed with assholes & whiny characters. Likeable characters will always do much better than villainous protagonists. There's a niche for a villain people love to hate, but in the absence of a likeable character/cast, they can fall flat or drive away viewers.


I like Murder She Wrote and Perry Mason too. I'd add MSW was commended for its consistently stable writing. Even in the horrid episodes Jessica Fletcher wasn't in, the writing of the mystery was still as strong as episodes with her in it. JMS of Babylon 5 fame (and Spider-Man infamy) wrote for the show for a while. Perry Mason was so popular, 20 years after the series ended (it was still in reruns in some markets into the 90s/00s), it spawned a tv movie franchise, churning out some 25 movies before the star's death. People generally overrate new and underrate the tortoise, the old, but well-liked concepts or characters can have appeal over a long time. MSW lasted 12 seasons. Certain changes in the networks have allowed shows to run longer than before, so 12 seasons back in the 80s/90s was amazing. Perry Mason was a fixture. They didn't really update the whodunit formula (man, the WWII gen loved their whodunits). It also helped having a huge old audience to tune in in the 80s/early 90s for these shows.

 

[Greg Cox]

There's a niche for a villain people love to hate, but in the absence of a likeable character/cast, they can fall flat or drive away viewers.


.

I don't know. DEXTER is probably the best show on tv these days--and he's a serial killer!

And what THE SOPRANOS, BREAKING BAD, etcetera?

(Granted, one could argue that Dexter is a likeable psychopath!)

 

[Mr Light]

It is unfortunate how little sci-fi is on the air these days. I was actually just doodling today and making a list of tv shows on the air right now and it was pretty depressing I miss those heydays of the late 90s early aughts of tons of sci-fi shows...

 

[startrekwatcher]

It is unfortunate how little sci-fi is on the air these days. I was actually just doodling today and making a list of tv shows on the air right now and it was pretty depressing

TV all around pretty much sucks--pop culture is in a rut--or maybe I've reached the age where I sound like my parents talking about the good old days of the 80s and 90s.

I miss those heydays of the late 90s early aughts of tons of sci-fi shows...

Yep tons of sff shows and mostly good-TNG, DS9, TXF, B5 etc. And even though I was hard on VOY during its original run I've come with a decade removed to appreciate it more. I really miss a weekly Trek series--it is true what is said about it that Trek even at its worse is better than 95% of everything else. And the Trek fora when Trek was on was so much fun and interesting--the SFF forum isn't fun and it is hard to talk about stuff since most of it is crap.

 

[Nerys Myk]

When is Sci-Fi never in danger of a Decline?

Sci-Fi is a genre that depends on the education level of the people watching it to be high.

We are getting dumber, ergo Sci-Fi is in decline.

Nah, SF TV is usually pretty "dumb". So its not really indicative of education level of who watches. As SF fans of course we'd like to think we are smarter than folks who read or watch Romance, horror or action.

Does anyone have actual numbers of SFTV productions over the years/decades? It seems there is usually "spike" when there is a hit movie or top rated TV show in the SF genre.

 

[Tom]

Time to start working on my savescifi.com site... lol

Serious though, I do own that name, just never did anything with it..

My thoughts on this topic is the Scifi is a bit saturated and as such has lost some of its edge. Also, as we live in 2011 our society has become so tech savy that alot of scifi concepts have lost there 'What if' wonder they once had. That said you can still do some entertaining shows if done right.

I would love to see Star Blazers completly re-imagined into a live action series, but thats just me..lol

Right now Doctor Who is the last major television franchise left on the air, Star Trek, Stargate and BSG are gone (for now) and the hyped Star Wars series never saw the light of day. Im not counting the Clone Wars cartoon, only live action TV.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

The declining ratings of sci-fi shows that the sci-fi audience is either shrinking (unlikely) or the new shows are not appealing to a portion of the sci-fi audience.

It's not the kinds of sf/f shows, or whether they're better or worse than they've ever been. It's that TV has changed so that broadcast has lost half its audience to cable, the audience is spread much more thinly for all shows, and the standards of what constitutes a "hit" and what merits cancellation have both dropped greatly. This results in broadcast networks running for the safety of tired old formats - procedurals, family & friends sitcoms, and the like.

Since sf/f is inherently risky, has a smaller audience and is expensive, broadcast networks are simply scared of it. OTOH, the fact that this genre does appeal to some viewers (particularly young males and upscale viewers, which otherwise might be hard to reach) is the reason broadcast keeps trying new sf/f shows each year. And the proliferation of cable channels means there's more room for sf/f everywhere.

The sf/f shows that tend to get greenlighted are the safe type - cop shows with sf/f elements. If TNG were launched today, when the structure of TV is so radically different, it would probably be cancelled within a year. (Particularly since viewers, having a large range of viewing options now, are very impatient with bad shows, and TNG was just plain bad for its first two seasons.)

 

[JD]

I've been rewatching the Treks, Sg-1, and Farscape over the past few months and I do have to agree that I miss those kinds of Sci-Fi. I really wish we could get a good space opera somewhere. While I am a fan of V, and SGU, I'm still willing to admit that they don't come close to the quality of things like pretty much any of the Treks, SG-1 or Farscape, although I actually thought V was getting close towards the end of the season. I really think what we need is for someone to actually come up with something new and unique (or at least based on something new and unique to TV). But where we run into a problem with this is the fact that the majority of TV execs are scared of new and unique things, they want a guaranteed hit, not an experiment that might succeed. And I think the only way to even stand a chance of getting something different on at this point would be to try to get a big name producer behind you, but even seem to be going back to the same old story wells again (time travel, dinosaurs, alien invasions, ect.).


For a while I'd been hoping that maybe Boldly Going Nowhere could be something new and unique, but I haven't heard anything about that in ages.

I had a thought the other day, and this seems like a good place to post it. Do you think a Sci-Fi show could work on HBO? I realized that with True Blood, and now Game of Thrones, HBO has tackled pretty much every genre except Sci-Fi. I don't know about anyone else, but personally, I would love to see what they would do with the genre. And I think at this rate, channels like HBO, AMC, and maybe TNT (depending on how Falling Skies turns out) are really our only hope for genre TV right now. Which is kind of sad when you consider the fact that we have a channel with SF in it's name. And I while Eureka, Warehouse 13 and Sanctuary are some of my favorite shows, they're just fun fluff, not really the kind of serious Sci-Fi I think we're talking about here. And they're definitely not the kinds of shows that would save SF on TV

 

[Temis the Vorta]

For a while I'd been hoping that maybe Boldly Going Nowhere could be something new and unique, but I haven't heard anything about that in ages.

It's dead, Jim.

I really think what we need is for someone to actually come up with something new and unique (or at least based on something new and unique to TV).

I think that's the last thing we need. Here's what might work: Star Trek on Showtime, but forget unique approaches (all-Klingon cast, the year 4000, etc). Just go back to the Starfleet-crew-going-boldly formula. Amp up the sex and violence a bit and make the storytelling somewhat sophisticated (but not egghead).

Showtime gets a million new viewers - there's gotta be that many Trekkies who will spend $10/month for a new series - and to Showtime that would be a huge number. On CBS, a million viewers is nothing.

Do you think a Sci-Fi show could work on HBO?

Absolutely! There were rumors of a couple sci fi series being developed at HBO, but nothing concrete yet. I mentioned Showtime only because they're part of CBS. I also think Starz could do sf/f - of course, with their own sleazy, low-brow take on it, but that's hardly a disincentive to watch.

 

[JD]

Damn, I love It's Always Sunny, and the idea of IASiP in space had a lot of potential IMO.