Another Voyager 1st-time watch thread
- Thread starter Shatnertage
- Start date
I like Ferengi culture in general a lot better than I like Quark in particular. But that's another thread for another time.
Never felt airlocking was a genuine threat - unlike BSG (poss a Ron Moore fixation there?). And while liked actors and comedy value, did find the Ferengi eps get tiresome by series 5. Have posted elsewhere that have changed opinion that VOY got better as went on. On rewatching, feel retrograde stories - although admit cast grew more comfortable in roles.
Wehyoun?
Due to their trade agreement, weren't the Ferengi & Dominion on good terms? Quark was the one to opened trade talks with them.
Seriously?
So the fact that his society thrives on con artistry by bamboozling others & theft doesn't factor in? The only things the Ferengi don't do is smuggle drugs, then again they just might.
I don't think it's snobbery to not have much respect for career criminals.
It's usually good sense. It helps, so you don't get taken.
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I think Memory Alpha called beetle snuff a drug. If that's the case (e.g., you think that the old-time snuff was a bad thing), then you're right, they don't smuggle it. They openly trade it.
Isn't Snuff from tobacco?
I'm guessing Beetle Snuff is ground Beetles.
While Snuff is classified as a drug, it's a legal one.
I can only assume Beetle Snuff is legal too.
Nobody seems to use it by the Ferengi, so are they really trading it?
That's an interesting thought. I wonder if that person interviewed really did mean that. Good point.
Still waiting for Disc 1, Season 6. Words can't express my dismay when I opened up a Netflix envelope yesterday, looking forward to finally seeing Equinox Part II, and found Doctor Who: Enlightenment. I don't know why my Queue is so messed up.
Netflix must feel bad about it, because they shipped Disc 1 yesterday, and are sending me Disc 2 today. That's 4 discs I'll have out at once.
Netflix must feel bad about it, because they shipped Disc 1 yesterday, and are sending me Disc 2 today. That's 4 discs I'll have out at once.
Yeah I was going to say, Netflix will usually ship a disc from another distribution center if the one closest to you is out of stock.
Yes, IIRC snuff, the old-time stuff stogey old aristocrats hundreds of years ago would use to induce the need to sneeze because they like the feeling, was most likely tobacco. I have no idea if they sell powered tobacco for snuff nowadays.
Regarding the Ferengi trading question, does selling it to other Ferengi count? Or does each Ferengi have his own beetle farm?
But most of the Ferengi we see do not sell illicit drugs. Some of them just sell weapons apparently without a Federation license.
Regarding the Ferengi trading question, does selling it to other Ferengi count? Or does each Ferengi have his own beetle farm?
But most of the Ferengi we see do not sell illicit drugs. Some of them just sell weapons apparently without a Federation license.
Hey maybe Netflix is run by Ferengi's!
Sorry. Couldn't help myself.
Sorry. Couldn't help myself.
As I hurried back from the mailbox this afternoon, I felt like General Zod at the end of Superman II. Well, the part where Superman's finally about to kneel before him, not the end end where his hand gets crushed. "At last!" I said. It's finally time to watch.....
"Equinox, Part II"
We open with the Equinox getting away. The Voyager crew get batted around by the ghostbuster aliens, but for reasons I'm sure were stated but I didn't quite catch, they get better.
Janeway has a completely different attitude in this episode, and while I like it (for the most part), it's hard to see where it's coming from. Having already seen ENT, it reminds me a lot of season 3 Archer, although he had to save an entire planet, whereas she's just upholding Starfleet principles...and sometimes in an unprincipled way. The near-airlocking (well, it wasn't an airlock, but it's about the same) of Lessing was clearly crossing the line. And firing Chakotay for opposing her? I don't get it. Interesting that as Ransom became more reasonable and re-discovered his humanity, Janeway seemed to lose hers.
That aside, this was a fantastic episode. There were lots of neat touches, particularly with the Doctor and Seven. I was thinking, "wouldn't it be great if they sang a duet," and they started singing a duet--one of the eeriest singing moments since HAL sang "Daisy." Very effective, though.
Did Janeway intend to follow through in her bargain with the ghostbuster aliens and surrender the Equinox? I don't know--I think that maybe she thought she'd give everyone a Captain Kirk speech at the end and save the day.
Morally, I don't think she was in the right for much of this episode, and it's interesting to ponder what would have happened if Burke had been her first officer instead of Chakotay.
Great episode that I can't wait to discuss further--there's so much to talk about.
"Equinox, Part II"
We open with the Equinox getting away. The Voyager crew get batted around by the ghostbuster aliens, but for reasons I'm sure were stated but I didn't quite catch, they get better.
Janeway has a completely different attitude in this episode, and while I like it (for the most part), it's hard to see where it's coming from. Having already seen ENT, it reminds me a lot of season 3 Archer, although he had to save an entire planet, whereas she's just upholding Starfleet principles...and sometimes in an unprincipled way. The near-airlocking (well, it wasn't an airlock, but it's about the same) of Lessing was clearly crossing the line. And firing Chakotay for opposing her? I don't get it. Interesting that as Ransom became more reasonable and re-discovered his humanity, Janeway seemed to lose hers.
That aside, this was a fantastic episode. There were lots of neat touches, particularly with the Doctor and Seven. I was thinking, "wouldn't it be great if they sang a duet," and they started singing a duet--one of the eeriest singing moments since HAL sang "Daisy." Very effective, though.
Did Janeway intend to follow through in her bargain with the ghostbuster aliens and surrender the Equinox? I don't know--I think that maybe she thought she'd give everyone a Captain Kirk speech at the end and save the day.
Morally, I don't think she was in the right for much of this episode, and it's interesting to ponder what would have happened if Burke had been her first officer instead of Chakotay.
Great episode that I can't wait to discuss further--there's so much to talk about.
I have got to have the forbidden fruit concept when it comes to this episode, no matte how much I kick and scream and swear off this episode I keep on watching it.
I love the parts with Ransom, I actually liked him over Janeway in this episode. The part with him and Seven in the holodeck was wonderful.
Now, that issue.
I love Janeway, my posts in the "How is Janeway Sexy" thread are proof enough, but this this is the one episode I can't stand her. One: she is way emotionally compromised. Two: she relieves Chakotay of duty for skin his JOB. Three: I actually don't have a three.
Her only redeeming quality of her is the end. When Ransom gives up the Equinox so Voyager can survive.
I have many many issues with this episode.
I love the parts with Ransom, I actually liked him over Janeway in this episode. The part with him and Seven in the holodeck was wonderful.
Now, that issue.
I love Janeway, my posts in the "How is Janeway Sexy" thread are proof enough, but this this is the one episode I can't stand her. One: she is way emotionally compromised. Two: she relieves Chakotay of duty for skin his JOB. Three: I actually don't have a three.
Her only redeeming quality of her is the end. When Ransom gives up the Equinox so Voyager can survive.
I have many many issues with this episode.
I've got issues with it, but I loved it at the same time. I'm going to find it hard to reintegrate it into the story of the ship going through the Delta Quadrant, but if this was a standalone movie, with no episode the next week, it would have been great.
In this episode, I like her resolution, her refusal to compromise. I just think that it's strange that she's willing to kill Lessing for refusing to betray his captain, something that Ransom ultimately steps away from with Seven.
And I love the way the Doc and Seven buried the hatchet. Those two are great together.
In this episode, I like her resolution, her refusal to compromise. I just think that it's strange that she's willing to kill Lessing for refusing to betray his captain, something that Ransom ultimately steps away from with Seven.
And I love the way the Doc and Seven buried the hatchet. Those two are great together.
Seven and the Doctor are always great.
I'm trying not to get into one of my rants.
The only thing I will touch on is Tuvok is Vulcan and took her threat. What Vulcan does that? Other than Spock.
There was something else that now I have forgotten.
Oh, this episode is the reason why Ron Moore's involvement with Voyager didn't last that long.
I'm trying not to get into one of my rants.
The only thing I will touch on is Tuvok is Vulcan and took her threat. What Vulcan does that? Other than Spock.
There was something else that now I have forgotten.
Oh, this episode is the reason why Ron Moore's involvement with Voyager didn't last that long.
I'm fairly certain the role-reversal was exactly what the writers were gunning for. It's why we see Voyager's plaque on the floor at the end of the episode, just like the one on the Equinox.
Janeway was all kinds of wrong (although getting your ass betrayed by a fellow 'Fleet captain would be a bitter pill to swallow.) But I think her misguided quest for justice is why this episode is interesting. Also, I can't muster up an ounce of sympathy for Ransom - after he left the VOY crew to die horribly and began torturing Seven he became a lost cause in my book. Janeway thankfully was able to turn back from the brink - she did torture Lessing (well, she at least make him soil his Starfleet issues,) but she did not ultimately return Ransom's favor and betray the Equinox to the green beasties. (Mostly because other things came up.)
Anyways, I don't think she was specifically out to murder Lessing - the line "He'll break" implies she was just trying to make him wet his pants and spill the info. Would he have died accidentally if Chakotay hadn't rightly stepped in? Maybe. Probably. YMMV, of course. Either way, she was wrong to fire him for not only saving Lessing's life, but her soul. Holy hell, what if Lessing did die?
Can I state my theory? Teacake hasn't weighed in yet, but here's mine!!!
Janeway slept with Ransom in Part I.
Which is interesting, given how often they love to interrogate/airlock people in nuBSG
Which is interesting, given how often they love to interrogate/airlock people in nuBSG
I know right!
And you and I have the same theory!!!!!!!!!
Which is interesting, given how often they love to interrogate/airlock people in nuBSG
I know right!
And you and I have the same theory!!!!!!!!!
LOL really?! It's kind of interesting watching Equinox through that lens.
I wonder what everyone else thought up.
froot's theory: 
so that's why the betrayal seemed so deeply personal to her? That kind of makes it all worse though..
My theory is not nearly as exciting. Watching it I found it hard to understand Marla's turn arounds, I has assumed she was in love with Ransome because why else would she throw her lot in with him once she had other options? Okay maybe she's just about brainwashed by Ransome but still, it was jarring.
My theory is that the synaptic stimulator that they traded an alien race for and that they all used to relax had some lasting effect on their choice making, perhaps inclined them towards obsession and an inability to make ethical choices that kept them from immediate gratification. An element of addiction for many. Ransome's guilt eventually started leaking into his time with the synaptic stimulator, when he saw 7 on the beach and he was eventually able to make putting the other crew first the gratification he wanted.
Of course this makes them all compromised and reduces their asshole-ness which is why I don't like it.
BUT. Perhaps Janeway tired out this synaptic stimulator too, maybe as a little post-coital conversation piece if froot is right or maybe just in their enjoyable discussions about the different races in the Delta quadrant. It compromised her just enough to make her obsessive after justice with the same tunnel vision Ransome and his crew had towards getting home.
so that's why the betrayal seemed so deeply personal to her? That kind of makes it all worse though..My theory is not nearly as exciting. Watching it I found it hard to understand Marla's turn arounds, I has assumed she was in love with Ransome because why else would she throw her lot in with him once she had other options? Okay maybe she's just about brainwashed by Ransome but still, it was jarring.
My theory is that the synaptic stimulator that they traded an alien race for and that they all used to relax had some lasting effect on their choice making, perhaps inclined them towards obsession and an inability to make ethical choices that kept them from immediate gratification. An element of addiction for many. Ransome's guilt eventually started leaking into his time with the synaptic stimulator, when he saw 7 on the beach and he was eventually able to make putting the other crew first the gratification he wanted.
Of course this makes them all compromised and reduces their asshole-ness which is why I don't like it.
BUT. Perhaps Janeway tired out this synaptic stimulator too, maybe as a little post-coital conversation piece if froot is right or maybe just in their enjoyable discussions about the different races in the Delta quadrant. It compromised her just enough to make her obsessive after justice with the same tunnel vision Ransome and his crew had towards getting home.
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