Exaclibur or EAS Excalibur?

[ProwlAlpha]

I am having a disagreement over at the Babylon 5 Wiki with the user, Blind DB, about the name of the Excalibur from Babylon 5 A Call to Arms and Crusade about whether the ship is Excalibur or EAS Excalibur.

He says that since there was a prop memo with just Excalibur on it that it is just Excalibur (the memo is unreadable and he only found it after someone was selling it).

My argument stems from the fact that Gideon calls it the Earth Alliance Starship Excalibur in the opening credits and the vessel was loaned to the EA.

So what do you guys think?

 

[Bishop76]

I would think it would be the IAS Excalibur (or ISAS) over EAS, but maybe they did give it the EAS designation when it was loaned to Earth

 

[David cgc]

I always went with IAS Excalibur.

Hey, is this the same wiki that insists that Senna from In The Beginning isn't the same person as Senna from the Centauri Prime trilogy? Because I'm back in the same town as my books, and I could totally prove they are with excerpts, page numbers, and logic.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Was it customary for the Earth Alliance to designate their ships EAS?

 

[Skywalker]

It's called the EAS Excalibur in the opening credits, so as far as I'm concerned that's how it should be referred to.

Was it customary for the Earth Alliance to designate their ships EAS?

Yep.

 

[David cgc]

^Yep. It was used consistently in dialog, and I think it was on a lot of the set decoration (computer screens, those individualized badges they put on every bridge, that sort of stuff).

 

[Bishop76]

This thread just reminds me what a shame it was that Crusade was so bad. Sad.

 

[ProwlAlpha]

Yes, its the same wiki. The guy is a total db. I thought Crusade was getting better until it was canned.

I once placed the EAS Omega as the prototype of the Omega Class and this guy said there was no evidence that Babylon 5 named the first ship of the class after the class. The Omega was mentioned in the first season as leaving Babylon 5. I told him he was wrong since there is a EAS Hyperion for the Hyperion Class, the White Star for the White Star Class, and the Asimov for the Asimov Class.

 

[timothy]

what was the asimov class ship ? was that the ship that was in legend of the rangers?

 

[Bishop76]

No, the Asimov class was the transport ship with the big rotating sphere-shaped section seen in earlier seasons.

 

[timothy]

very cool I have that miniature from the babylon 5 wars miniature game. J.M.S must have been an ISSAC ASIMOV fan big time. to name a class of ship after him and pulled the three laws on garibaldi like he did with bester .

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

This thread just reminds me what a shame it was that Crusade was so bad. Sad.

A lot of it was just slightly better, production-wise, than a good fan film now. It really looks as if the producers agreed to try to mount the series on a budget that was inadequate to the show they were trying to do.

 

[OmahaStar]

This thread just reminds me what a shame it was that Crusade was so bad. Sad.

A lot of it was just slightly better, production-wise, than a good fan film now. It really looks as if the producers agreed to try to mount the series on a budget that was inadequate to the show they were trying to do.

And why not? It had worked for Babylon 5 for five years. They were able to make something amazing on a Doctor Who-sized budget.

And I think the answer in this thread comes from the last season of B5 and the movie A Call to Arms. The ISA built the ship. It belongs to them, and it's on loan - and nothing more - to Earth. They may call it whatever they like in the opening sequence (and since Gideon is EarthForce, he probably thinks of it as a simple Earth ship) but it's not technically (or legally) Earth's.

 

[timothy]

I thought crusade was pretty good . I enjoyed it just dissapointed it did'nt run it's five year run .

 

[Reverend]

^Yep. It was used consistently in dialog, and I think it was on a lot of the set decoration (computer screens, those individualized badges they put on every bridge, that sort of stuff).

For Earthforce ships it was but not the Excalibur it seems. As near as I can tell, the opening credits is the only place the ship is refereed to as an "Earth Alliance Starship." It's never called either this or the "EAS Excalibur" is dialogue. Gideon only ever calls it the the "Starship Excalibur."

It's certainly a bit odd when the only contradiction is in the title credits and give that it's in every episode you'd think it'd count for more.

Thing is that (strange as it seems) the opening credits are just flat wrong. The Excalibur wasn't and EA ship and never was. It was built in secret by the ISA co-operation with Earth and Minbar with the intent of them being the first in a new fleet of Ranger ships. It only ended up in Earth hands later and only then on loan to the EA. So no, it's defiantly not and Earth ship.

I suspect this might have something to do with TNT who as I recall kept pushing to distance the show away from it's intended connection with the Rangers and more towards a show about humans finding aliens and shooting at them. On the one hand it might just be that the opening credits where being necessarily simplified--it is after all not the best place for a pedantic description of the ship's unique status.

Incidentally, I think I saw a scan of thst prop quite a while back--I think it was a printout Gideon holds at the start of 'The Long Road'--and right at the top it says something like "From: EAS Medusa To: Excalubur."
If I remember it right (vaguely recalling an interview in the magazines) either Fiona Avery or one of the other continuity people was responsible for printing off stuff like this, if so then the intent BTS appears to be clear; it's just "Excalibur."

Though the weight of evidence appears to be against the "EAS" prefix, nothing is 100% definitive either way. I suppose what we really need is a quote from JMS or a peek at the Crusade show bible. Perhaps we should bring in Jan for an adjudication?

*rings the Jan bell*

 

[Jan]

<salivates at the sound of the bell>

I actually own that particular prop. I'll take a look at it and the Crusade Bible when I get home.

Ombuds Jan

ETA: I forgot - I've got a photo of it online. http://photos.b5archivist.com/GalleryFilmstrip.aspx?gallery=212359&mid=7083446&mt=Photo&ci=008 It does only say Excalibur. I'll still check the show bible when I have a chance.

 

[David cgc]

I once placed the EAS Omega as the prototype of the Omega Class and this guy said there was no evidence that Babylon 5 named the first ship of the class after the class. The Omega was mentioned in the first season as leaving Babylon 5. I told him he was wrong since there is a EAS Hyperion for the Hyperion Class, the White Star for the White Star Class, and the Asimov for the Asimov Class.

Actually, I remember one of the RPGs (and possibly a JMS post, but definitely the RPG) said that "Omega" was an exception to the tradition, and its class name came from the code name for the advanced destroyer project meant to spearhead the post-Minbari War fleet; ("Omega" because it'd be the last starship Earth would need to build since it'd be so awesome they'd never top it). The first ship off the line was the "Achilles," I think.

 

[ProwlAlpha]

I heard that too, but it wasn't explained on the show, and if we go with the Wiki's policy, the EAS Omega is canon and the EAS Achilles is not.

 

[David cgc]

I'm wouldn't say that just because something implicitly exists makes it canon, or notable enough to merit a wiki page. I wouldn't expect that a page on MaintBox 13 that detonated the evil space probe in that season 3 episode would mean that there should then be entries for MaintBots 1 through 12.

 

[ProwlAlpha]

Well, if it was mentioned, it should at least have an article page. Its not like the article is taking up valuable Babylon 5 Wiki space, the wiki only has 2700 articles and even then there is a lot of doubling up on articles especially with the civilian freighters.