A Christmas Carol discussion and grading thread
- Thread starter The Nth Doctor
- Start date
Doctor King
Lieutenant Junior Grade
Blimey! This has to be best christmas special I've ever had for long time to come! Thank you, Mr. Moffat! Matt Smith seemed to be grown into the role of Eleventh Doctor now, I love him for being serious for a bit, a show has make me forget everything that RTD did with the show.
Now I'm looking forward for Series Six. I'm looking forward a triumphant return of Ood as well!
Now I'm looking forward for Series Six. I'm looking forward a triumphant return of Ood as well!
Wow, Corrie got savaged.
I only watched Doctor Who and half of Strictly (I work in Vince Cable's department so had to see how much of a political car crash his involvement would be!)
the happy ending isn't really all that happy when you consider that Abigail is going to die at the end of it and Kazran will be all alone.
I think it sums up Christmas beautifully: it's a brief hiatus in which we all delude ourselves that dreams come true and there's a magical moment when all that's wrong with life will be put right; when actually, tomorrow it's all back to the usual grim reality where there are no happy endings and no real magic.
You must be loads of fun at parties.
Another way to look at it is that Christmas is a means for coping with death and mortality: A day on which we celebrate the creation of new life and the relationships we have, held in the middle of a season of death and darkness, to remind ourselves that though life is not infinite, it is still precious. Which I'm sure Abigail would agree with, since she was willing to be woken up on her last day of life to save others.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed this. Oh, well.
As far as the Reapers go, not necessarily. In both "The Fires of Pompeii" and "Cold Blood," the Doctor says that he has a special Time Lord-y sense about what aspects of the timeline can be altered safely and which are fixed points in time that will cause horrible things to happen to the fabric of time if he changes them. He apparently could tell that if he altered the life of Karzan, the fabric of time would remain safe and no giant monsters would show up trying to eat anyone.
As for the don't-touch-your-younger-self rule: Rule of emotion. The emotion of the scene requires Old Karzan to hug his younger self. If we really need a justification, we can assume that the Doctor planned on Old Karzan's reaction and did something wibbly-wobbly to Young Karzan to protect his selves from the Limitation Effect.
Sort-of. Like he said in "The Fires of Pompeii," he can feel when some events are fixed points in time that can't be changed. Pete Tyler's death was a fixed point in time -- it could not be changed, it was inevitable, and changing it would be as disastrous as preventing the destruction of Pompeii or trying to save Bowie Base One.
That also suggests an interesting possibility -- maybe rebooting the Universe in "The Big Bang" has altered some of the "rules" of time travel, has made time more malleable than it was before?
I thought it was decent. In my opinion, Voyage of the Damned is the best of the Christmas specials, but I enjoyed this one.
I like Amy, but can see why she wasn't utilizeded much in the special, since the emphasis had to be on the Doctor, "Scrooge", and Abigail. (Nice job, by the way, by Miss Jenkins. Not being an opera fan, I didn't know who she was, but I thought her acting was quite good, and her singing had charms to sooth the savage breast of a shark. And, she is obviously, very attractive.)
I too, thought this episode contradicted "Father's Day, " but then, so what. Throughout its almost 50 year history, Dr. Who has contradicted itself quite often.
And yes, the music was too loud at times to understand the dialogue.
Overall, a pleasant, touching, and fun episode.
I'm looking forward to this season's, "Marilyn Monroe and the Ice Warriors."
I like Amy, but can see why she wasn't utilizeded much in the special, since the emphasis had to be on the Doctor, "Scrooge", and Abigail. (Nice job, by the way, by Miss Jenkins. Not being an opera fan, I didn't know who she was, but I thought her acting was quite good, and her singing had charms to sooth the savage breast of a shark. And, she is obviously, very attractive.)
I too, thought this episode contradicted "Father's Day, " but then, so what. Throughout its almost 50 year history, Dr. Who has contradicted itself quite often.
And yes, the music was too loud at times to understand the dialogue.
Overall, a pleasant, touching, and fun episode.
I'm looking forward to this season's, "Marilyn Monroe and the Ice Warriors."
Saw this last night. Will read the other comments but wanted to get my own down first, be interesting to see what the general mood is.
On the whole I thought it was rather wonderful; love the setting and themese within it, definitely fits into the fairy tale motif that Moffat has instituted within the show. Gambon was wonderful and Katherine Jenkins was lovely (can see why they hired her now, they needed someone who could sing but luckily she isn't too bad on the acting front either). Shame there wasn't more Amy/Rory but understandable I guess. Karen looked lovely as ever and Rory was funny.
Oh and of course Matt Smith was brilliant as always!
Love the foggy planet, the use of sound to clear the fog and the fish swimming within the clouds...whimsical but a lovely kind of whimsical...and I have to admit when Abigail left her box for the last time I almost shed a tear.
I do hope that the Doctor isn't going to reference marrying a famous historical figure every year however....
Anyway, a very good story...
But...At the risk of peing a pedant, and of acting like Craig Revel Horwood, I did have a few issues with it.
Firstly, was anyone else disturbed at the notion of the Doctor rewriting someone's life, I mean even though he wasn't a nice man, that just feels wrong, and how can the Doctor rewrite history in that way, yet not do something like hop back in time and tell the Captain to change course earlier?
I accept the show has no canon, that story trumps logic, but still I think there have to be some rules the Doctor has to follow, or else he becomes even more super powered than he is now. (If you can rewrite history to save Amy and Rory why not Adric, or Donna?)
At the moment its a minor irritation, didn't spoil my enjoyment.
More annoying was the way Moffat screwed with his own temporal mechnics. Showing the young Kazran his older self was a neat twist on the ghost of christmas future, but surely its just going to rewrite history again and everything thats happened won't happen the same way this time around?
Yeah yeah I know, I know, overthinking things
On the whole I thought it was rather wonderful; love the setting and themese within it, definitely fits into the fairy tale motif that Moffat has instituted within the show. Gambon was wonderful and Katherine Jenkins was lovely (can see why they hired her now, they needed someone who could sing but luckily she isn't too bad on the acting front either). Shame there wasn't more Amy/Rory but understandable I guess. Karen looked lovely as ever and Rory was funny.
Oh and of course Matt Smith was brilliant as always!
Love the foggy planet, the use of sound to clear the fog and the fish swimming within the clouds...whimsical but a lovely kind of whimsical...and I have to admit when Abigail left her box for the last time I almost shed a tear.
I do hope that the Doctor isn't going to reference marrying a famous historical figure every year however....
Anyway, a very good story...
But...At the risk of peing a pedant, and of acting like Craig Revel Horwood, I did have a few issues with it.
Firstly, was anyone else disturbed at the notion of the Doctor rewriting someone's life, I mean even though he wasn't a nice man, that just feels wrong, and how can the Doctor rewrite history in that way, yet not do something like hop back in time and tell the Captain to change course earlier?
I accept the show has no canon, that story trumps logic, but still I think there have to be some rules the Doctor has to follow, or else he becomes even more super powered than he is now. (If you can rewrite history to save Amy and Rory why not Adric, or Donna?)
At the moment its a minor irritation, didn't spoil my enjoyment.
More annoying was the way Moffat screwed with his own temporal mechnics. Showing the young Kazran his older self was a neat twist on the ghost of christmas future, but surely its just going to rewrite history again and everything thats happened won't happen the same way this time around?
Yeah yeah I know, I know, overthinking things
Just a quick observation:
I don't think I've ever seen so many people saying nice things about "Voyage of the Damned" at the TrekBBS before!
I bloody loved it. It was easily the most romantic, most charming, and most Christmas-y Christmas special Doctor Who has ever produced. My new favorite of all the Christmas specials.
My only real critique of it is my standard critique with Moffat's work -- his female characters are either vividly three-dimensional (Amy, River) or semi-objectified plot devices who fall for men Just Because (Reinette, Sally), and Abigail falls rather firmly into the latter camp. Still, this is redeemed in part by the fact that Abigail calls Karzan out on his miserly ways at the very end. I just wish Abigail had displayed more agency in the episode. But I also don't think that that makes the work fundamentally misogynistic or bad or anything, and I think that Jenkins managed to sell the idea of Abigail falling in love quite credibly, so it didn't interfere with the romanticism of the episode.
I don't think I've ever seen so many people saying nice things about "Voyage of the Damned" at the TrekBBS before!
I bloody loved it. It was easily the most romantic, most charming, and most Christmas-y Christmas special Doctor Who has ever produced. My new favorite of all the Christmas specials.
My only real critique of it is my standard critique with Moffat's work -- his female characters are either vividly three-dimensional (Amy, River) or semi-objectified plot devices who fall for men Just Because (Reinette, Sally), and Abigail falls rather firmly into the latter camp. Still, this is redeemed in part by the fact that Abigail calls Karzan out on his miserly ways at the very end. I just wish Abigail had displayed more agency in the episode. But I also don't think that that makes the work fundamentally misogynistic or bad or anything, and I think that Jenkins managed to sell the idea of Abigail falling in love quite credibly, so it didn't interfere with the romanticism of the episode.
Exactly! It was the single best Christmas episode this series has produced. Everyone was A-list, the plot was flawless, and the effects were gorgeous. And not a single stupid, silly, "whimsical" pop-culture-driven moment to "apologize" for the drama! Moffat reigns superior, as ever. Absolutely wonderful! Roll on Season Six!
So did I. I mean we always do it, like Christmas will make everything better, then realise it didn't and then say "Oh well maybe next year will be better, until January 7th or something when we realise it's exactly the same.
Wasn't bad at all, Vince is quite lightfooted but I knew he'd do ok as I've seen him dabce before.
That was incredible! Outstanding stuff all around.
I was completely geeking out with the ST09-style lens flares. I found them kind of annoying in the Star Trek movie but loved them here for some reason.
My favorite moment was when the Doctor tells Kazaram that there's no such thing as isomorphic controls, and what happens after that. Since I literally LOLed at the inside joke/reference to "The Pyramids of Mars," am I ready for my geek card?
I was completely geeking out with the ST09-style lens flares. I found them kind of annoying in the Star Trek movie but loved them here for some reason.
My favorite moment was when the Doctor tells Kazaram that there's no such thing as isomorphic controls, and what happens after that. Since I literally LOLed at the inside joke/reference to "The Pyramids of Mars," am I ready for my geek card?
I wonder if 'Bones' has seen it yet. His comments are always fun
That was one of many things I hated about the film, but I loved it here for one simple reason: I saw the whole situation (especially the opening sequence) as having a laugh at the film.
some more ratings, this time from Australia
Rnk Description Stn Network Sydney Melbourne Brisbane Adelaide Perth
8 Doctor Who: A Christmas Carol ABC1 880,000 257,000 221,000 150,000 123,000 129,000
Doctor Who At The Proms 2010 ABC1 141,000 27,000 47,000 24,000 15,000 28,000
Rnk Description Stn Network Sydney Melbourne Brisbane Adelaide Perth
8 Doctor Who: A Christmas Carol ABC1 880,000 257,000 221,000 150,000 123,000 129,000
Doctor Who At The Proms 2010 ABC1 141,000 27,000 47,000 24,000 15,000 28,000
Having a laugh or tipping a hat?
Not the first time Moffat's done a Trek reference-Rose gave the Doctor the alias of "Spock" when they first met Jack way back in Moffat's very first story.
Also, although it was never filmed, one of the ideas tossed around had WHO not been canceled in 1989 was to have season 27 open with Ace in command of a TNG-style ship, and going to her ready room only to find the Doctor sitting in her chair. That would've been a fun homage to Trek.
Although not really official Doctor Who, there's also that sketch on some british comedy show (Dead Ringers, I think) where Eccleston's family feel betrayed because he's playing the Doctor when the whole family has been Trekkies.
Also, although it was never filmed, one of the ideas tossed around had WHO not been canceled in 1989 was to have season 27 open with Ace in command of a TNG-style ship, and going to her ready room only to find the Doctor sitting in her chair. That would've been a fun homage to Trek.
Although not really official Doctor Who, there's also that sketch on some british comedy show (Dead Ringers, I think) where Eccleston's family feel betrayed because he's playing the Doctor when the whole family has been Trekkies.
