Which should I watch? TNG or Enterprise?

[DevilEyes]

Nothing in Trek is as bad as TNG season 1.

*cough* "Threshold" *cough*

Yes, there are individual episodes that are as bad. But you can't find a season nearly as bad as TNG S1.

In fact, only TNG S2 comes close (saved by a few gems like "The Measure of a Man").

So yes, ENT seasons 3-4 may be marginally better overall than TNG season 1

Eh?! ENT seasons 1-2 are way better than TNG season 1. TNG season 1 is by far the worst season of any Trek ever. ENT seasons 3-4, on the other hand, are very good and can be compared with any season of Trek.

Nothing in Trek is as bad as TNG season 1. And season 2 isn't much better.

I would rather watch Angel One and Justice for 24 hours straight than be subjected to Imaginary Friend, Rascals or Sub Rosa one more time.

Well, maybe you have a point - Angel One and Justice have the cheese factor going for them, in the "so bad they're good" kind of way. You may also throw in Code of Honor, The Last Outpost, The Neutral Zone, plus The Outrageous Okona and Up the Long Ladder from S2.

On the other hand, we have Precious Cargo, Marauders, Acquisition, Unexpected, Bounty... also really bad, but less fun. Besides, they only manage to be marginally offensive to women, while the above mentioned TNG episodes manage to genuinely offend women, black people, Irish people, and 20th century humans in general.

 

[ProtoAvatar]

sonak
"I'm willing to overlook dated effects and some cheesiness"
Exactly. You are willing to overlook it because you're a TOS/TNG fan.
A casual viewer will not be so indulgent.


"ENT limped along for the first couple seasons on one-note recycled plots"
Many of Ent's first 2 seasons plots have, indeed, similarities with plots from TOS and TNG.
If Ent's plots are "one-note recycled plots", then TOS's, TNG's plots are equally "one-note recycled" from the perspective of a new viewer who will look at the shows today, NOT 30 years ago.


Have you even looked recently at the 2 first seasons of TNG? At the last season of TOS? This, while trying to put down the nostagia/fan-of-the-show glasses?

Most episodes, sonak, are unwatchable. They're not even 'so bad they're good'. They're just bad.
Nowhere in its course does Ent even approach that level of awfulness.

 

[BillJ]

On the other hand, we have Precious Cargo, Marauders, Acquisition, Unexpected, Bounty... also really bad, but less fun. Besides, they only manage to be marginally offensive to women, while the above mentioned TNG episodes manage to genuinely offend women, black people, Irish people, and 20th century humans in general.

See I'd rather a show actually have the balls to offend people than to be so bland that they put me to sleep. YMMV.

Though I really liked Unexpected.

Have you even looked recently at the 2 first seasons of TNG? At the last season of TOS? This, while trying to put down the nostagia/fan-of-the-show glasses?

So you're saying that the only way one can enjoy shows from the 60's, 70's and 80's is through nostalgia? I really feel sorry for you.

You may want to go back and re-examine those shows you so easily dismiss as nostalgia. There's a reason we're still talking about and watching them twenty, thirty and even forty years later.

 

[BillJ]

Well, maybe you have a point - Angel One and Justice have the cheese factor going for them, in the "so bad they're good" kind of way. You may also throw in Code of Honor, The Last Outpost, The Neutral Zone, plus The Outrageous Okona and Up the Long Ladder from S2.

I always have enjoyed season 1 and 2 of The Next Generation far more than anything else that came later for one sole reason... it was 'fun'. It seemed starting with season 3 that Rick Berman started buying the hype that Star Trek had some type of deep social statement to make.

It's not nostalgia nor is it rose-colored glasses, Star Trek at that point was simply more fun.

Think I'm gonna go pull Encounter at Farpoint off the shelf.

 

[ProtoAvatar]

So you're saying that the only way one can enjoy shows from the 60's, 70's and 80's is through nostalgia? I really feel sorry for you.

As usual, you fail to even read what I wrote, BillJ.
I said you and sonak have an exaggerated opinion of TOS's, TNG's value due to notalgia/being fans.

And as usual, the only "argument" you can come up with is name-calling -- which is just pathetic, BillJ.

You may want to go back and re-examine those shows you so easily dismiss as nostalgia. There's a reason we're still talking about and watching them twenty, thirty and even forty years later.

And again you don't see I already addressed this - repeatedly.
Really, BillJ? Is it really necessary to have to baby-step explain every single detail when talking to you?

The main reason for TOS's, TNG's large fan-base was the past tv environment, conductive to creating such a large fan-base.

 

[jcourtenay]

i agree with shatnertage, definitely watch ENT first

 

[DevilEyes]

On the other hand, we have Precious Cargo, Marauders, Acquisition, Unexpected, Bounty... also really bad, but less fun. Besides, they only manage to be marginally offensive to women, while the above mentioned TNG episodes manage to genuinely offend women, black people, Irish people, and 20th century humans in general.

See I'd rather a show actually have the balls to offend people than to be so bland that they put me to sleep. YMMV.

I think you got TNG mixed up with South Park...

Unfortunately, in the case of TNG S1&2, it wasn't about having balls, it was about lacking brains. They weren't trying to offend anyone, on the contrary, they were trying to be as politically correct as possible (check out the 'drugs are bad, mkay?" speech by Tasha in "Symbiosis")... The offensiveness was a product of sheer stupidity. I bet they thought they were making a very deep statement about gender politics in "Angel One" and apparently Maurice Hurley thought it would be cool if the dumb breeding stock immigrants in "Up the Long Ladder" were Irish like himself, i.e. dreadful Irish stereotypes...

 

[BillJ]

And as usual, the only "argument" you can come up with is name-calling -- which is just pathetic, BillJ.

Do you even know what discussion your in?

 

[PsychoPere]

Have you even looked recently at the 2 first seasons of TNG? At the last season of TOS?

I can't answer for anyone else, but I have recently seen the third season of TOS and the first two seasons of TNG, as part of an entire franchise (re)watch that I'm currently working my way through (I'm in DS9 season seven at the moment). Frankly, I'd take a bad TOS episode over bad TNG, VGR, or ENT episodes.

And before you dismiss this as "nostalgia" - I'm 23 years old, so I never saw TOS first-run or in its first rounds of syndication. If I "grew up" with any Trek, it was TNG, yet TOS (followed now by DS9) is my favorite series.

[...] Nowhere in its course does Ent even approach that level of awfulness.

I disagree.

From season 1: "Unexpected," "Fusion," "Rogue Planet," "Acquisition," "Desert Crossing," "Two Days and Two Nights."

From season 2: "Carbon Creek," "A Night in Sickbay," "Singularity," "Vanishing Point," "Precious Cargo," "Future Tense," "The Crossing," "Regeneration," "First Flight," "Bounty."

From season 3: "Extinction," "Rajiin," "Exile," "North Star," "Carpenter Street."

From season 4: "Storm Front," "Bound."

 

[sonak]

Well first off, let's all relax and allow each poster to have their own opinions on the shows without getting testy at one another.


Yes, TNG season 1 (but not IMHO) season 2 had it problems, with several episodes being quite bad. However, as BillJ pointed out, there's a "fun factor" there while I see Ent as coming off as just tired and dull in seasons 1-2.

And even in season 1 there's still "heart of glory," "110011001," "conspiracy" and "the big goodbye" which showed TNG gaining some footing. I don't think I like any episode of season 1 of ENT as much as any of those episodes.

I'm not influenced by "nostalgia." I'm far too young to have been a fan of TOS when it was in its first-run yet I have always LOVED that show for its adventure, the relationship of the "big three," its (usually) smart stories, etc. It wasn't even ON in re-runs for a long time when I became a Star Trek fan and I used to have to find videotapes of certain episodes and stuff to watch it, and what I saw always made me want to come back for more.

Like BillJ, I'm always in the mood for some TOS or TNG episodes. But Ent? not nearly as much enthusiasm.

 

[BillJ]

Like BillJ, I'm always in the mood for some TOS or TNG episodes. But Ent? not nearly as much enthusiasm.

I obviously have some love for Enterprise, all four seasons are sitting on my DVD shelf.

 

[SFRabid]

Remove the first two seasons of TNG and replace them with the last two seasons of ENT. That gives you a good 7 year series.

 

[ALF]

Unfortunately, in the case of TNG S1&2, it wasn't about having balls, it was about lacking brains. They weren't trying to offend anyone, on the contrary, they were trying to be as politically correct as possible (check out the 'drugs are bad, mkay?" speech by Tasha in "Symbiosis")... The offensiveness was a product of sheer stupidity. I bet they thought they were making a very deep statement about gender politics in "Angel One" and apparently Maurice Hurley thought it would be cool if the dumb breeding stock immigrants in "Up the Long Ladder" were Irish like himself, i.e. dreadful Irish stereotypes...

Yep. And those examples are being kind. Justice was an atrocious train wreck that in hindsight actually makes it fun to watch!

Ironic since TOS had a lot of brains behind it.

I think when TNG started they were really referencing TOS and it went overboard... by the time they got it out of their system (season three began) it was basically a work of art.

 

[Freman]

At least ENT doesn't have a clip show. That, to me, is TNG's eternal shame.

 

[Tom Riley]

I would say start with TNG, and then go ahead and watch ENT. I liked them both, but liked TNG better, mainly because it's what I grew up with.

 

[Eckauskas]

Asking "Should I watch TNG or ENT?" is like asking "Should I eat a delicious steak or pour some ants into my trousers?" Watch TNG, and skip ENT.

This, this, a million times this.

 

[BillJ]

Asking "Should I watch TNG or ENT?" is like asking "Should I eat a delicious steak or pour some ants into my trousers?" Watch TNG, and skip ENT.

This, this, a million times this.

That's a good way to miss some great episodes. Not necessarily an Enterprise fan, but did get some entertainment value from it sporadically throughout the series. YMMV.

 

[Eckauskas]

Asking "Should I watch TNG or ENT?" is like asking "Should I eat a delicious steak or pour some ants into my trousers?" Watch TNG, and skip ENT.

This, this, a million times this.

That's a good way to miss some great episodes. Not necessarily an Enterprise fan, but did get some entertainment value from it sporadically throughout the series. YMMV.

You misinterperet my point here.

It's not that I wouldn't watch Enterprise, just that TNG is far and away the better series.

 

[CaptJimboJones]

I'm *gasp* a fan of both. I'd recommend watching all four seasons of Enterprise first, then all seven of TNG.

 

[Marten]

TNG, but Enterprise is certainly not bad. It's just not TNG.