We're the only ship in range......

[Star Wolf]

I'll never forget that scene with the Borg cube approaching Earth, in BOBW. Three missile type craft are launched against the cube. Just three. And I think they are demolished somewhere near Saturn. Now, I can appreciate avoiding the cost of keeping a fleet on patrol full time around the Earth solarsystem, when the odds of attack are very slim. But certainly a dense matrix of fully automated defense installations could be stationed in various key parts of the solar system to deal with threats. It never struck me like the Federation was hard up for resources. Quite the contrary, the organization seems to be quite flush with them. Why not devote a small portion of that towards precautionary defense measures?

I chalk up the lack of defenses in BOBW to production costs and timing. They devoted a big bulk of that to Wolf359. Otherwise I think they'd have shown much more.

What is a small portion, a cruiser squadron training cadets and resting or just the newest ship coming out of the shipyards getting ready for her maiden voyage?

How many Federation planets are there now and can each planet have a squadron of cruisers? As the main proponent of all for one and one for all thanks to Captain Archer, Earth is the last planet that can politically put up an independent guard and has to show confidence in depending upon Starfleet's in depth defenses.

 

[kkozoriz1]

How long did we see that scene? A few seconds? I imagine that there were lots of such ships launched. We jsut saw enough to know that the cube was swatting them away like flies.

 

[Timo]

Never mind the budgetary restrictions on actually showing stuff, we heard there was a heated battle around Jupiter. We also saw the Borg fly past Saturn, apparently because they wanted to do battle there as well (there'd be no reason for the flypast if they just wanted to go to Earth). We then saw them fly past Mars, again apparently because they wanted to do battle (again, there'd be no reason to fly past Mars if Earth was the target); we also saw a little bit of that battle.

Apparently, each of these three planets was defended, and the Borg wanted to eliminate the defenses so that they would have complete freedom of operations on Earth orbit. If Jupiter, Saturn and Mars were defended, it would only stand to reason that Earth was as well. Just as with Jupiter, Saturn and very nearly Mars, we simply didn't see the defenses and the battles because there was no budget for it.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[KJbushway]

Cloaked, not likely. Khitomer accord. Federation not allowed to cloak anything basiaclly.

Not to pick nits, but you mean the Treaty of Algeron.

No, if I am wrong please tell me.

 

[Timo]

The Khitomer treaty (supposedly referring to the diplomatic aftermath of ST6) was apparently solely between the Feds and the Klingons - and the Klingons have no problem with allowing the Feds to cloak. Indeed, they often lend the Feds a cloakship's services.

In contrast, the Treaty of Algeron was explicated in TNG "The Pegasus" to be between the Feds and the Romulan Star Empire, and to forbid the Feds from developing or fielding cloaks. It was also said to have kept the peace since about 2311, which most of us take to mean that the treaty was signed back then (although it could theoretically be much older, and would merely have briefly failed in its peacekeeping role in 2311).

Apparently, not even the Romulans have problems with all invisibility devices. Starfleet is shown operating all sorts of holographic camouflage in TNG and DS9 and ST:INS, without this being a political hot potato. Probably any "cloak" that can be trivially penetrated by a tricorder is okay with the Roms; only military-standard invisibility devices are casus belli.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[The Wormhole]

Cloaked, not likely. Khitomer accord. Federation not allowed to cloak anything basiaclly.

Not to pick nits, but you mean the Treaty of Algeron.

No, if I am wrong please tell me.

See for yourself:

Khitomer Accords
Treaty of Algeron

The Treaty of Algeron is clearly the one prohibiting the Federation from developing cloaking technology:

From the Memory Alpha article:
The treaty also expressly prohibited the development or use of cloaking device technology by the Federation.

 

[Picard578]

Starships were defending Earth (providing the planet's defense) in First Contact. They were not in deep space. No other planetary defenses (outside of spaceships) are seen.

If I recall it correctly, Starfleet engaged Borg cube long before it came near Earth.

It has been established (TOS) that an individual Starship can serve as a planet-killer (at least in terms of it habitability for humanoids).

Planetary shields?

Tell me more about the Breen attack. I am unfamiliar with the relevant particulars.

It caused heavy damage and was repelled. However, due to "leaky" nature of Trek shields and fact that half of inhabited surface wasn't destroyed, it might even point to planetary shields being in use.

Right, and this is why navies don't simply let ships rove around.

And Starfleet does exactly that.

About 90% of Star Trek is talk, for obvious reasons.

Yeah, damn budget. However, we hear enough to make "educated guess" - in one DS9 epsode (one when Dukat goes hunting klingon BoP in freighter) we hear about dedicated planetary defence weapons being used by Cardassians. Also, according to some non-canon sources, Sovereign class starships used type-XII phasers, mainly deployed for planetary defense.

And if Earth had defensive fortifications or other non-starship assets (as explicitly stated in both cases), the low numbers of ships within a few hours' travel would be of even less consequence.

Earth Spacedock? Starbases can be very capable defenses, and with 100 000+ km weapons range...

Why not devote a small portion of that towards precautionary defense measures?

Maybe beacouse these were not needed for what? 50, 100 years?

 

[Timo]

Planetary shields?

The only UFP planet ever suggested to have one was the Elba II penal institution, and even there the shield was in place to block transport, not to block weapons fire. Our heroes fired at it, not succeeding with their first shot, but their aim was to avoid destruction. So the defensive capabilities of that shield were left vague.

No Klingon, Romulan or Cardassian world was suggested to be shielded, either. Only advanced alien cultures have possessed planetwide forcefield constructs, such as the Aldean cloak, and even those have never been indicated to be combat shields.

[/quote]Earth Spacedock? Starbases can be very capable defenses, and with 100 000+ km weapons range...[/quote]

OTOH, Spacedock was on a relatively low orbit, so it could only defend against an enemy that was polite enough to approach from the correct direction. Smaller and more numerous defense installations would be technologically more probable - and, due to their size and purpose, would be invisible to the usual camera views.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[KJbushway]

Planetary shields?

No Klingon, Romulan or Cardassian world was suggested to be shielded, either. Only advanced alien cultures have possessed planetwide forcefield constructs, such as the Aldean cloak, and even those have never been indicated to be combat shields.
Timo Saloniemi

Well we know that Cardassia was almost destroyed by the dominion when they attacked from orbit. No shield.
Klingon civil war in TNG, we never say evidence of shield.
Romulan didn't have any kind of shield, picard was able to transport down there in TNG.

 

[T'Girl]

Romulan didn't have any kind of shield, picard was able to transport down there in TNG.

Picard's Klingon transport approached Romulas while cloaked, the Romulan commander told Spock that Romulans can not scan a cloaked ship.

If Romulas should have a planetary shield, it likely would be activated only if a need presented itself, because of power use.

So Picard being able to beam down doesn't per se mean the Romulan lack a planetary shield.

 

[KJbushway]

True.

 

[Forbin]

There was a planetary shield around the penal planet in Whom Gods Destroy.

 

[Star Wolf]

There was a planetary shield around the penal planet in Whom Gods Destroy.

And so they had a reason to have the shields always on, much like we man the guard towers 24/7 on our prisons while most buildings do not have that level of security

How much power can a planet generate and how cheap is it are the factors to determine if shields are always on around federation worlds. It would seem to make interplanetary transporters unusable and force shuttle flights if they were on 24/7 because of fear of a suprise hit and run attack.

 

[Timo]

There was also a shield around the other criminal-treating facility, Tantalus, in "Dagger of the Mind". It, too, was apparently chiefly intended to prevent the use of transporters, rather than to stop enemy warships from bombarding the facility. The difference with "Whom Gods Destroy" is that the Tantalus shield was never specificed to cover the entire planet, while the Elba one was said to do exactly that.

Might be a case of the Tantalus facility being on a large, "true" planet which cannot be shielded with UFP technology, and Elba II being a tiny planetoid about the size of the smallest known spherical asteroids.

Then again, Scotty and McCoy agree that a rescue team deployed on the far side of Elba II would be "thousands of miles" away from the penal facility. Perhaps not quite your average Class M world, for which the distance would be tens of thousands of miles, but not a teeny weeny space rock, either. And Elba II did have a dense atmosphere, so it apparently also had some noticeable natural gravity, not just an artificial gravity system installed in the penal facility.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[T'Girl]

Starships were defending Earth (providing the planet's defense) in First Contact. They were not in deep space. No other planetary defenses (outside of spaceships) are seen.

If I recall it correctly, Starfleet engaged Borg cube long before it came near Earth.

This.

Starfleet initially engaged the Borg in the Typhon sector (wherever that is) some time after crossing the Federation border, My impression/guess is that there was then either a series of engagements or a long running battle all the way to Earth, where the Enterprise joined the fight.

The penal asteroid of Rura Penthe also possessed a shield, which was specifically said to effect only transporters, and only the main gulag was covered, it was possible for Kirk and party to walk out from under it. Possibly the shield at the Tantalus facility was also limited in area and designed to interdict transporters only

 

[KJbushway]

This is why there isn't a shield around Romulus, because thats exactly what they would have, they are known for their secret nature.

 

[Satyrquaze]

Have you noticed how many times the Enterprise is the only ship in range?
In Star Trek Generations the Enterprise-B was the only ship in range to rescue the transport ships caught in the Nexus ribbon. Hello? They were in sector 001 which should have been teeming with Star Fleet vessels such as those protecting the system and the dozens of Starships whose captains would have been on hand for the launch of a major ship like the Enterprise-B.

A Warp Five Starship can, according to Trip in Star Trek Enterprise, get to Neptune and back in six minutes so why couldn’t the Federation escort vessels that Chekov noticed were missing in ST:IV go to the rescue? Star Trek Nemesis when the Enterprise-E is routed to Romulus Admiral Janeway tells Captain Picard that they are the closest ship. Imagine how Shinzon’s plans would have come unstuck if they’d sent the U.S.S Crazy Horse instead?

Surely had Picard been told that there is a historical opportunity to go to Romulus and that they had requested him it would have been better than he was closest.

Could be worse, have you noticed how many times the Enterprise is the "only ship in the quadrant"?

 

[T'Girl]

"only ship in the quadrant"

Considering that a quadrant is one quarter of the entire galaxy, it does seem quite odd for the Enterprise to be the only ship in that area..

 

[Satyrquaze]

"only ship in the quadrant"

Considering that a quadrant is one quarter of the entire galaxy, it does seem quite odd for the Enterprise to be the only ship in that area..

Thanks for coming with me on that one.

 

[Gary7]

Never mind the budgetary restrictions on actually showing stuff, we heard there was a heated battle around Jupiter. We also saw the Borg fly past Saturn, apparently because they wanted to do battle there as well (there'd be no reason for the flypast if they just wanted to go to Earth). We then saw them fly past Mars, again apparently because they wanted to do battle (again, there'd be no reason to fly past Mars if Earth was the target); we also saw a little bit of that battle.

Apparently, each of these three planets was defended, and the Borg wanted to eliminate the defenses so that they would have complete freedom of operations on Earth orbit. If Jupiter, Saturn and Mars were defended, it would only stand to reason that Earth was as well. Just as with Jupiter, Saturn and very nearly Mars, we simply didn't see the defenses and the battles because there was no budget for it.

Timo Saloniemi

I think the producer had the cube fly-by of Saturn, Jupiter, and Mars to show the relative progression towards Earth. Yes, in reality it wouldn't make sense for the Borg to do that because it would require diverting off course to visit those planets. I don't remember us getting any report of a heated battle @ Jupiter. But even considering that, what follows is just that rather small attack @ Saturn then nothing else reported. The "viewer impression" is that there are few defenses. That's my beef. I just think they could've showed something more substantial.

Star Trek is very inconsistent about the Borg anyway. we see them decimate tons of ships @ Wolf359, yet the Enterprise survives every engagement. A rather unbalanced representation. Someone else did a marvelous discrepancy report on the Borg somewhere on TBBS, showing how they were so impervious earlier on, while later we see cubes significantly damaged with less effort. The Borg learn from their attackers and get stronger each time (just like how you can penetrate their shields only the first few times, and after that forget it). So you'd figure they'd just keep getting tougher...

Anyway, getting back to topic, Star Trek just can't cover all the bases... the episodes inevitably leave holes and we're just left to guess what fills them.