Borg

[Thrawn]

Just a year and a half ago, when Destiny came out, everyone was complaining about how overused the Borg were and how happy they were that the Borg were apparently gone for good. And we've even had a Borg story since then - in Seven Deadly Sins - and still there's apparently demand for more.

Fandom is so weird.

 

[Lonemagpie]

I think you mean antagonists. Protagonists are the heroes.

<evil grin>

Really?

Who's the protagonist in Die Hard? I'll give you a clue- it's not Bruce Willis as John McClane....

The protagonist is the person who's pro-active, trying to do something that drives the plot. Usually that's the hero (trying to find the Grail, catch the robber, win the war, etc) but not always. The antagonist is the person trying to stop him, or at least act in a manner that will get in the way of the protagonist succeeding.

So, in Die Hard, Hans is the protagonist, trying to rob $600million from Nakatomi, and McClane is the antagonist, trying to foil the plan which he has stumbled upon by complete chance.

It'd certainly be possible to have the Borg as protagonists - arguably First Contact counts, as it's the Queen's plan that drives the story.

 

[CaseyF]

Just a year and a half ago, when Destiny came out, everyone was complaining about how overused the Borg were and how happy they were that the Borg were apparently gone for good. And we've even had a Borg story since then - in Seven Deadly Sins - and still there's apparently demand for more.

Fandom is so weird.

Well, I'm not starting an online petition demanding more Borg or anything, but I also wasn't complaining about them a year and a half ago. I just thought it might be interesting for a short story or novella to explore what could have happened if they'd attacked the Federation back in the TOS days. Might be lame, also. I was mostly trying to contribute to the thread through something other than the weird little squabble I'd been in, so I threw my comment out there.

However, I'd also like to read a story about the Borg attacking Sunnydale and Buffy becoming the new Borg Queen, so I think you're right about fandom being weird.

 

[JD]

I think you mean antagonists. Protagonists are the heroes.

<evil grin>

Really?

Who's the protagonist in Die Hard? I'll give you a clue- it's not Bruce Willis as John McClane....

The protagonist is the person who's pro-active, trying to do something that drives the plot. Usually that's the hero (trying to find the Grail, catch the robber, win the war, etc) but not always. The antagonist is the person trying to stop him, or at least act in a manner that will get in the way of the protagonist succeeding.

So, in Die Hard, Hans is the protagonist, trying to rob $600million from Nakatomi, and McClane is the antagonist, trying to foil the plan which he has stumbled upon by complete chance.

It'd certainly be possible to have the Borg as protagonists - arguably First Contact counts, as it's the Queen's plan that drives the story.

Huh, I'd never heard it defined that way.

 

[Lonemagpie]

I think you mean antagonists. Protagonists are the heroes.

<evil grin>

Really?

Who's the protagonist in Die Hard? I'll give you a clue- it's not Bruce Willis as John McClane....

The protagonist is the person who's pro-active, trying to do something that drives the plot. Usually that's the hero (trying to find the Grail, catch the robber, win the war, etc) but not always. The antagonist is the person trying to stop him, or at least act in a manner that will get in the way of the protagonist succeeding.

So, in Die Hard, Hans is the protagonist, trying to rob $600million from Nakatomi, and McClane is the antagonist, trying to foil the plan which he has stumbled upon by complete chance.

It'd certainly be possible to have the Borg as protagonists - arguably First Contact counts, as it's the Queen's plan that drives the story.

Huh, I'd never heard it defined that way.

It's from the Greek, and means the leading or principal character driving the story.

Of course its *original* definition in Greek drama simply meant the first character to speak to the chorus... (which in Die Hard's case would probably make the protagonist Ellis, who's the first person to speak to Holly, who's the closest equivalent to fulfilling the function of the chorus)

 

[Allyn Gibson]

the writers can't agree on what's canon

Lance Parkin, in an article on Doctor Who canon, made the point that, insofar as a writer working within a particular universe is concerned, canon is whatever elements of the background universe and previous stories the writer is allowed to use. That could be books. That could be comics. That could be your Great-Aunt Edna's slash fanfic.

As far as Star Trek fiction is concerned today, the only things that are truly off-limits and can't be used by others are "The Slaver Weapon" and Shatner's novels. If, for example, Christopher wanted to reference DC Comics' Star Trek #33 in his Department of Temporal Investigations novels, while there may be artistic reasons why he shouldn't, there's no one who will say, absolutely, "No, you can't."

 

[TerraUnam]

Just a year and a half ago, when Destiny came out, everyone was complaining about how overused the Borg were and how happy they were that the Borg were apparently gone for good. And we've even had a Borg story since then - in Seven Deadly Sins - and still there's apparently demand for more.

Fandom is so weird.

Meh. There's always Hernandez' & Inyx' Group Therapy Home for Former Borg Drones. We can always see how that's (not) going.

 

[flandry84]

I just finished that Borg story from "Seven deadly sins".I don't know if this has been discussed elsewhere but I thought that the Borg were done,finished,gone forever....well,that lasted for all of two fucking minutes.


Well done Pocket....

 

[F. King Daniel]

Next thing you know they'll bring back Janeway...

 

[ProtoAvatar]

I just finished that Borg story from "Seven deadly sins".I don't know if this has been discussed elsewhere but I thought that the Borg were done,finished,gone forever....well,that lasted for all of two fucking minutes.


Well done Pocket....

'Seven deadly sins' actually takes place pre-'Destiny'.

 

[flandry84]

/\Thanks but I knew that.What I meant was that I was under the impression that as a plot device,the Borg were now done with,never to be used again.Are we now going to see a slew of Borg stories set during those weeks and months of the Destiny war?

 

[Jack Bauer]

The Borg was never going away as a story element. sure, they're gone now but that doesn't mean they can't be used in pre-Destiny stories.

 

[flandry84]

GROAN!
enough already!

 

[Nardpuncher]

By the way, Mr. Bennett, my question was rhetorical. No emoticon for that.

You'll get used to him.

 

[Nardpuncher]

GROAN!
enough already!

Agreed.

The Borg have been pure fanwank for years now. Yes, that's in my opinion.

 

[Christopher]

/\Thanks but I knew that.What I meant was that I was under the impression that as a plot device,the Borg were now done with,never to be used again.Are we now going to see a slew of Borg stories set during those weeks and months of the Destiny war?

I'm sure we won't. There's no agenda to continue making constant use of the Borg. After all, before Resistance came out, the Borg had rarely played a major role in Trek Lit. They were in Vendetta; they were in The Return; they figured in Homecoming/The Farther Shore, Mission Gamma: Lesser Evil, and Engines of Destiny; and a version of them was in Mirror Universe: The Worst of Both Worlds. Maybe seven major appearances (and a smattering of minor references and uses) in 16 years' worth of novels.

Then, as it happened, Margaret Clark decided to do two Borg novels as part of the TNG post-Nemesis novel line in 2007. Then, when Pocket was developing a big trilogy event for the end of 2008, Dave Mack decided that if the Borg had been brought back big-time like that, their story should be wrapped up once and for all, so the trilogy became about the Borg. And then Margaret decided to commission a bridging novel to tie up the loose ends left by the previous novels and set up Destiny, so that became Greater Than the Sum. So there wasn't any systematic plan to make heavy use of the Borg in 2007-8; it just kind of evolved.

So there's never been a policy to make constant, routine use of the Borg, and there's no reason why there'd start to be one. But conversely, just because the main story of the Borg has been brought to a conclusion, that doesn't mean that authors would be prohibited from coming up with Borg-related stories if they had ones worth telling. It just so happened that Marco Palmieri decided to do an anthology called Seven Deadly Sins, telling stories about major (and minor) ST races representing each of the seven, and the Borg were a natural fit for Gluttony. It didn't come about because of some desire to make constant use of the Borg; it was just an outgrowth of that particular concept and its parameters. It's a isolated case that just happened to come relatively soon after Destiny.

 

[TerraUnam]

On that note, the Voyager line is now premised on looking at the effects of the Borg disappearing rapidly from the scene. The next novel is Children of the Storm, a species introduced in Destiny who appear to utterly hate the Borg. Plus there's the vacuum in former Borg space, and there's always the possibility of the New Caeliar appearing at a writer's whimsy.

The Borg by themselves aren't that interesting on paper. There just isn't that much that's is compelling about techno-zombies when you can't see them advancing at you on screen. It's their victims and enemies that make them interesting. They are the heart of a good Borg story.

We've got those in spades now, from the Andorians, Vulcans, and half the Federation, the Delta Quadrant and the New Caeliar. Bring it on I say.

 

[ProtoAvatar]

Bringing the new caeliar back in the stories would be detrimental - boring, actually.
They could only be used for deux ex machina situation solving, some speeches about what nice guys they've become and that's it.
At most, you could have some federation citizen being mad at them because the borg are now part of them and the new caeliar providing him with psychiatric therapy.

 

[TerraUnam]

I disagree, and think there are far more topics that could be covered, including a number of open threads from Destiny. They could be brought back to drive a story, not to solve it, from a number of different perspectives.

If they don't actually manage perfection that well....

Axion Bumper Sticker: "Next Stop, Perfection."

 

[Christopher]

On that note, the Voyager line is now premised on looking at the effects of the Borg disappearing rapidly from the scene.

Not exclusively. That's just the excuse for sending them back to the Delta Quadrant. The excuse for sending Ben Sisko to DS9 was to shepherd Bajor toward Federation membership, but that didn't end up being the sole or primary thing that series was about. The DQ is vast and mostly unexplored, so there's no reason to assume that the Voyager fleet's nominal purpose will define or limit what they actually encounter out there.