I was looking forward to Talons of Weng Chiang

[Starfleet Engineer]

This serial comes highly rated on many "best of" lists of DW. Just finished watching it. I wasn't impressed. It came off as something from Masterpiece Theater with some Doctor Who thrown in. The story isn't even good. The guy is trying to get back to his time, he doesn't make it. Woopie. What am I missing that gets this on the "best of" lists? Horror of Fang Rock is very similar. Crusty. Stuffy. Slow.

 

[Captain Pike]

Perhaps classic series Doctor Who just isn't for you..

 

[Starfleet Engineer]

That would be incorrect. I like many classic who serials such as The Time Meddler, The Invasion, The War Games, Tomb of the Cybermen, The Three Doctors, Inferno, Pyramids of Mars, Genesis of the Daleks, and the Brain of Morbius. I just don't see the attraction of The Talons of Weng Chiang.

 

[Jim Steele]

Basically, right, not everyone likes the same shit.

 

[The]

Talons' rep is built off the very way you describe it...Masterpiece Theater with Who in the middle. For the day, that much "depth" or "respect" given to Doctor Who was unheard of. Therefore, you will always have Talons listed in a higher class than other episodes. Also, Robert Holmes is famous for his two-character pieces where he creates dual voices to represent the outsider to The Doctor and his companion. Jago and Litefoot are two of his most endearing characters, and fans have never stopped loving those guys.

In the end, Talons is a product of its time, and much of its grandiosity lies within that frame of reference. If you didn't like it, it's fine. Some don't. That's the beauty of Doctor Who. It can be pretty much everything to everyone. If you give it enough time, sooner or later, a story will come through that speaks directly to you. And you will give it the greatest rating ever. Well, that's Talons for an older generation. The next generation might have listed Caves of Androzani in its place. Then the next, it might be Remembrance. Or Rose. Or Family of Blood. Or The Eleventh Hour. You should find your own...

 

[davejames]

That would be incorrect. I like many classic who serials such as The Time Meddler, The Invasion, The War Games, Tomb of the Cybermen, The Three Doctors, Inferno, Pyramids of Mars, Genesis of the Daleks, and the Brain of Morbius. I just don't see the attraction of The Talons of Weng Chiang.

You're definitely not alone. Where there's an awful lot of Classic Who I love, there are a few episodes regarded as "absolute classics" that don't do anything for me for some reason:

Talons of Weng Chiang, Genesis of the Daleks.... and (dare I say it) Caves of Androzani.

I have no problem with serious or somber types of stories (and I've got a really long attention span), but these three just strike me as incredibly slow, dull, and drawn-out. Save for a few great scenes in each, of course, that everyone always talks about.

Sometimes I wonder if fans are basing their views based on those great, iconic moments, instead of on the stories as a whole...

 

[Shatnertage]

I can't speak for others, but I'll share why I like it. As always, YMMV.

1. The setting: it's obvious that Edwardian London was a locale that the production staff could pull off much more convincingly than, say, the war-shattered surface of an alien planet.

2. Leela: some nice costume changes, yes, but also great characterization. It was a story that used her background as part of the story, not just in throw-away lines. Though her defiance towards "Bentface" to the end was brilliant.

3. Jago and Lightfoot: for my money, the best of the Holmesian double acts. I particularly like the scene where Jago confesses that when it comes down to it, he's not so brave at all, and Lightfoot's saying "yeah well...that's the point, isn't it?"

4. World-building: There's a sense that this takes place in a big, big universe, with all those little details about Magnus Greel and World War 5 (?). All delivered with absolute conviction by Tom Baker, so you really believe what he's saying.

All things considered, for a 35 year-old tv show, it's got a lot going for it.

 

[Chaos Descending]

I was looking forward to Talons of Weng Chiang

I was too, but then I found out that they were giving away free eggrolls with each purchase of Claws of Kung Pao so I went with that instead.

 

[The]

Sometimes I wonder if fans are basing their views based on those great, iconic moments, instead of on the stories as a whole...

Great iconic moments. Stories, on a whole, don't stand up well against scrutiny. That goes for both eras, Classic and Modern...

 

[Timofnine]

I found the same thing with Robots of death. I think it's a case of fans hyping up serials so much, that you expect so much of them... and when you finally do see those episodes they just aren't as good as you've read, or you just don't have the rose tainted glasses that most old time fans do.

 

[OmahaStar]

The only serial that really does live up to the hype is Tomb of the Cybermen. Everything else is subjective.

 

[Starkers]

Well I only recently saw Talons for the first time (that I recall, I might have seen it as a 5 or 6 year old) and have to say I loved it. Perhaps a little too long, but Leela and the Doctor were brilliant and Jago and Lightfoot were just fantastic!

I love Robots of Death and Fang Rock as well though!

I do understand why people think the classic eps are slow, and like I've said elsewhere sometimes it's good sometimes not. Just rewatching Tomb at the moment and got to the end of episode 2, and the Cybermen have only just woken up! Now that's how to build tension, if Tomb were a nuWho episode they'd probably be waking up by the end of the pre-title sequence

 

[Cutter John]

Its just like any other show. People have different tastes. Personally I loved the entire 'gothic horror' period of the show.

Now 'City of Death', theres a story I never understood the love for.

 

[Starkers]

Oh I like City of Death. Anyone else think there's almost a NuWho vibe to that story?

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

This serial comes highly rated on many "best of" lists of DW. Just finished watching it. I wasn't impressed. It came off as something from Masterpiece Theater with some Doctor Who thrown in. The story isn't even good. The guy is trying to get back to his time, he doesn't make it. Woopie. What am I missing that gets this on the "best of" lists? Horror of Fang Rock is very similar. Crusty. Stuffy. Slow.

Talons is one of the most awful, excruciating pieces of nonsense I've sat through - and I was thoroughly sorry to have wasted the evening (and half the night ). Could they have run back and forth between those two locations more pointlessly a couple of more times?

 

[The]

Hey Dennis (Bones II ?), I dare you to say something positive in a Doctor Who thread in this forum...

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Hey Dennis (Bones II ?), I dare you to say something positive in a Doctor Who thread in this forum...

I dare you to read more carefully rather than just reacting defensively as soon as you see something that's other than fannish fawning.

 

[The]

That's your only response? Calm down, dude. Your immediate knee-jerk reaction to assume I'm a "fannish fawner" is an obvious response to your defensiveness over me calling you Bones II. I apologize. You're not that bad. Yet. But, you are seriously overly-critical, to the point that you go out of your way to add negative comments to threads, if only to get a reaction. It's just becoming more obvious lately, that's all I'm saying...

 

[Mr. Sin]

One of the best things about Talons is that there's a lot of BTS material, mainly from The Whose Doctor Who documentary (Which was a contemporary documentary which explored WHO's appeal to people of all ages in the 70s, as well as complaints about it's violence), where we get to see Tom Baker, Deep Roy and others in rehearsal. It's much better and more professional than the later Silver Nemesis doc.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

That's your only response?

Well, that much was more than you're due.

One of the best things about Talons is that there's a lot of BTS material, mainly from The Whose Doctor Who documentary (Which was a contemporary documentary which explored WHO's appeal to people of all ages in the 70s, as well as complaints about it's violence)

Was the old Who considered a violent kid's show in Britain? What I've seen is pretty tame by American standards - but kids of the 1960s era here grew up with all kinds of westerns.