Did anyone else find that scene disturbing?

[Anji]

Did anyone else find the Spock/Valeris mind meld scene in the Undiscovered Country disturbing?

Or even out of character? The idea of forcing a mind meld on an individual seems like an act of violence that a Vulcan would never commit.

I have a hard time watching that movie because of that scene.

 

[Green Shirt]

Yes, it was disturbing. That's what made it such a good scene. Vulcans can be violent when necessary.

 

[FormerLurker]

And Spock found it not only necessary, but cathartic. He was Pissed Off.

 

[DGCatAniSiri]

The novelization attempts to make it better, by having Valeris mentally accept the meld, but as pissed off as Spock was at her, I have a hard time accepting him forcing a meld, which are these extremely intimate things between Vulcans, on Valeris, even after she's betrayed his trust.

It wouldn't make the moment any less horrendous, but there are two things that I would want to have been included to make the moment if not morally better than at least a little more palatable - if there had been a line of dialogue to the effect of 'I know this is a terrible thing to ask of you, but if we are to save the Federation, we need those names and she is our only link' and Spock taking her off the bridge, into a private place, for the meld. As it is, not only does Spock not object, no one else does, especially to this happening right there in public view on the bridge. I think there are a few horrified reactions shots, but there's very little to show that what was done was, according to what's been previously established, something that Spock would not normally consider a course of action that he would take.

 

[Sal'ira]

It was a horrifying scene, yes, but also neccesary. Valeris was not going to give up the conspirators names. Furthermore, Spock didn't have the time to tot Valeris off to some private place. He needed crucial information, as the Peace Conference was soon. Also, Spock was angry. Valeris was his protege and she had betrayed him. I didn't dislike the scene, as it was very intense. And as you could clearly see afterwards, Spock was not happy about what he did.

 

[F. King Daniel]

He basically mind rapes her right in front of everyone. I'm not sure it was the only option.

 

[Maurice]

I think disturbing was rather the point of the scene.

 

[Kronos]

He basically mind rapes her right in front of everyone. I'm not sure it was the only option.

The other option was a massive war and the destruction of the Enterprise.

 

[Tiberius]

I think the scene is very effective. He is desperate for the information, and he doesn't have any choice., How else could he get the information in time? The Enterprise crew only just makes it as it is.

 

[Tyjos Azari]

I also think he sorta "Raped" Her he pretty much ripped the information from her mind.

But yeah he looked pissed.

 

[Timo]

Vulcans can be violent when necessary.

This. Also, they aren't apologetic about it, and don't have "illogical" qualms about it. They plan, calculate, and execute - be it torture, rape, murder or a wedgie.

Doesn't mean they can't be gentle and considerate, too. Although they probably plan, calculate and execute that as well.

However, it's difficult to understand why so many people want to refer to this ST6 piece of calculated brutality as "rape". When A punches B in the jaw, is that rape? When A drives a knife into B, is that rape? When A locks B in a room with a bomb or a ravenous tribble, is that rape?

Does it became rape when A is male and B is female?

Why, then, should a forcible mindmeld by A upon B be considered "rape"? It doesn't even begin to approximate what we know of Vulcan sexual practices - the finger rub (ST3), the feverish frenzy of the male (in some cases at least; "Amok Time" et al.), the lustful yearnings of the female ("Bounty"). There's no identifiable connection there, as AFAWK Vulcan sex doesn't even involve mind melds (although foreplay to it may, in some cases; "Fusion").

Timo Saloniemi

 

[F. King Daniel]

If anything, going into someone elses mind without permission and doing what you want is worse than doing the same to the body. I know Spock wasn't doing it for kicks, but would you want someone learning your darkest secrets? Sharing your most intimate memories and thoughts without permission? It's a situation where someone can concievably take everything special or personal from you.
Much worse than getting stabbed or punched in the jaw.

 

[Elder Knight]

Didn't Spock tell us that a Vulcan, e.g., his own father, could kill if it were logical to do so? He could oprobably justify torture if it would save innocent lives.

 

[Timo]

It's a situation where someone can concievably take everything special or personal from you. Much worse than getting stabbed or punched in the jaw.

Is it? Valeris as a modern Vulcan should have been quite accustomed to the idea of others probing inside her head, to lesser or greater degree. She'd probably be less irked by that, in relation to the prospect of being stabbed to a painful death, than a non-telepathic individual would be.

And it's still not particularly closely related to rape. Sawing the victim into tiny pieces with a rusty knife is probably worse than stealing his wallet; one still doesn't call the first act "pickpocketing" just because it's "an offense like the second act, only worse".

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Rat Boy]

Of course, makes you wonder that if this was indeed a violation of Valeris' civil rights, it would mean that she could walk at trial and her implication of Admiral Cartwright would get tossed at his court martial, as well.

 

[Jeyl]

I'll tell you a scene that I found disturbing beyond known limits. Every time it was about to come on, I'd hurry out the room and hide with my hands covering my ears.I t freaked me out so much that it wasn't until I was like 10 or 12 years old before I was finally able to watch this sequence.

The Transporter Room Accident from Star Trek: The Motion Picture.

The screams........mother of god, those screams.....

 

[jefferiestubes8]

He basically mind rapes her right in front of everyone.

Yes I would call a forced Vulcan mind meld a rape which is really violence.

 

[blssdwlf]

Don't forget that in Elaan of Troyius, Kirk was going to have Spock question Kryton with a mind-meld like it was standard procedure. Kryton commits suicide to avoid it. Spock probably doesn't normally go that far, but I can see that Spock and Kirk could go there if given enough reason.

 

[USS Kongo]

I'll tell you a scene that I found disturbing beyond known limits. Every time it was about to come on, I'd hurry out the room and hide with my hands covering my ears.I t freaked me out so much that it wasn't until I was like 10 or 12 years old before I was finally able to watch this sequence.

The Transporter Room Accident from Star Trek: The Motion Picture.

The screams........mother of god, those screams.....

Even more chilling for me was the line: "Enterprise. What we got back didn't live long enough...fortunately."

For the longest time, I had really nightmarish thoughts about what was on the transporter platform. Ewww....

Getting back on topic, I thought the forced mind meld was very unpleasant to watch as well (which was the whole point). But what saved Spock's character in my eyes was the fact that he was obviously disturbed about having done it immediately afterwards.

Sean

 

[jefferiestubes8]

Transporter Room Accident

The Transporter Room Accident from Star Trek: The Motion Picture

For the longest time, I had really nightmarish thoughts about what was on the transporter platform.[/QUOTE]
That reminds me of The Fly (1986) when Seth Brundle first when attempts to teleport a baboon between 2 telepods, which is killed when it is reintegrated inside-out.