What you did or didn't like about NEM....
- Thread starter Joel_Kirk
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People have a problem with the Thaleron radiation weapon... Yes it's not as interesting as the Genesis device and is a bit fanboyish.... but what about Star Trek XI? Drilling into planets? Red Matter? Sheesh. One more example of what classifies as "lazy" and "unnecessary" in Nemesis is often looked at as "kewl" for STXI.
Actually, I thought the characters themselves got terrific treatment. It's one of the things the movie got right. It's largely the villain, his motivations and extensions thereof that drag the movie down.
BAD - Riker and Troi, would have like to see a brief, very brief, scene of the actual wedding. In the theater I didn't know that they were in Alaska, thought it was the holodeck.
BAD - Prime Directive, the whole dune buggy scene was a prime directive violation. Worf was gunning down indigenous natives left and right. But all in good fun of course.
GOOD - Liked the decompress on the bridge where the helmswoman was blown out into space, a very real death. The movie might have prospered by getting to know her a little better before killing her, something short.
GOOD - Space-Nosferatu, love Ron Pearlman in anything, believe the Remans were well thought out and made sense. I mean the Romulans having slaves, not much of a stretch.
GOOD - The big ass new Romulan bird of prey, damn kilometer across. Two of them - in battle, extremamente quente.
BAD - Prime Directive, the whole dune buggy scene was a prime directive violation. Worf was gunning down indigenous natives left and right. But all in good fun of course.
GOOD - Liked the decompress on the bridge where the helmswoman was blown out into space, a very real death. The movie might have prospered by getting to know her a little better before killing her, something short.
GOOD - Space-Nosferatu, love Ron Pearlman in anything, believe the Remans were well thought out and made sense. I mean the Romulans having slaves, not much of a stretch.
GOOD - The big ass new Romulan bird of prey, damn kilometer across. Two of them - in battle, extremamente quente.
Actually, it was the helmsman that was caught off-guard and sucked into space....the helmswoman held on for dear life until the decompression field came on....
Yeah, that was great. Terrible, but great.
Not a fan of the TNG films, and Nemesis was by far the worst. Not to be a troll, but I have to take a dump on this film.
This movie was so bad that Patrick Stewart ended his on screen working association with the franchise. He had X-Men to do. Since Stewart was gone, there was no need to make another TNG film.
This movie really damaged the career of Tom Hardy, who was an up and coming actor. He was an alcoholic/drug addict before the film, but became worse after that film for awhile.
The movie in and of itself was ridiculous. The guys who wrote that ridiculous script were the same ones who smoked crack with Tom Hardy, writing completely nonsensical garbage. The Romulans cloned/engineered/created a bald, metrosexual, evil version of Picard, and managed to find an actor who looked nothing like a younger Patrick Stewart. I mean, again, WTF?
They killed Data, in a similiar fashion that they killed Spock about 20 years before. The writers went to the well. If there was another TNG film, would there be some kind of rescuing of Data's mind? Is Data really dead? Why did Data have to die in such a dumbass film (also, why did Kirk have to die in that stupid energy ribbon thing in Generations?)
Who the hell writes for Trek, doesn't Paramount even do drug tests anymore? Did Roddenberry have a bunch of secret kids that no one knew about who all became hack writers who couldn't pen "Days of Our Lives" much less Space Opera? Where were the DS9 writers?
I did not like any of the TNG films, the only one which is OK is First Contact, however that film was just basically about the Borg invading the ship, with the main players basically killling Borg for an hour and a half. Inserrection was basically a TV episode. Speaking of directing, Trek was bad about allowing several of its actors to direct episodes. Why? Wasn't anything learned from MASH, when Alan Alda directed? Let the pros direct, you act. (for example, Shatner in ST:V, the second worst movie in the franchise.)
I dunno, hack writers have been around Trek since the 60's and even the hacks sometimes write good stuff. The Female Shapeshifter was a creation of a Hack.....
Hack writer :"Let's create a villian, who reminds us of the scariest old person or Catholic Nun in parochial school and turn her into an evil Hitler like being and see how it goes...................."
This movie was so bad that Patrick Stewart ended his on screen working association with the franchise. He had X-Men to do. Since Stewart was gone, there was no need to make another TNG film.
This movie really damaged the career of Tom Hardy, who was an up and coming actor. He was an alcoholic/drug addict before the film, but became worse after that film for awhile.
The movie in and of itself was ridiculous. The guys who wrote that ridiculous script were the same ones who smoked crack with Tom Hardy, writing completely nonsensical garbage. The Romulans cloned/engineered/created a bald, metrosexual, evil version of Picard, and managed to find an actor who looked nothing like a younger Patrick Stewart. I mean, again, WTF?
They killed Data, in a similiar fashion that they killed Spock about 20 years before. The writers went to the well. If there was another TNG film, would there be some kind of rescuing of Data's mind? Is Data really dead? Why did Data have to die in such a dumbass film (also, why did Kirk have to die in that stupid energy ribbon thing in Generations?)
Who the hell writes for Trek, doesn't Paramount even do drug tests anymore? Did Roddenberry have a bunch of secret kids that no one knew about who all became hack writers who couldn't pen "Days of Our Lives" much less Space Opera? Where were the DS9 writers?
I did not like any of the TNG films, the only one which is OK is First Contact, however that film was just basically about the Borg invading the ship, with the main players basically killling Borg for an hour and a half. Inserrection was basically a TV episode. Speaking of directing, Trek was bad about allowing several of its actors to direct episodes. Why? Wasn't anything learned from MASH, when Alan Alda directed? Let the pros direct, you act. (for example, Shatner in ST:V, the second worst movie in the franchise.)
I dunno, hack writers have been around Trek since the 60's and even the hacks sometimes write good stuff. The Female Shapeshifter was a creation of a Hack.....
Hack writer :"Let's create a villian, who reminds us of the scariest old person or Catholic Nun in parochial school and turn her into an evil Hitler like being and see how it goes...................."
Liked
The battle between Shinzon and The E in the nebula
The Dominion war tie in about the Remens
The Jerry Goldsmith
Commander Donatra, and I so agree about her needing a miniskirt! However I liked seeing a Romulan with honor once more ala The Commander from Balance of Terror
Jerry Goldsmith
The look and fee of the modified E, the weapon's racks and the left over feel following the era of war these people just fought. The added decks of the refit though the dark chasm left me wondering.
Jerry Goldsmith
The Riker/Troi wedding/relationship..since it leads to the feel in the Titan series.
The look of the scorpion attack fighters and the Avatar, even the dune buggy (though it needed more of a humvee type feel to it ..more passenger space and cargo capacity)
Didn't like/hated :
The mistake about Picard being bald young when it was already shown he had hair. Poor continuity mistake right off the bat.
The unecessary breach of the prime directive on the dune buggy jaunt
B-4 (been there done that)
A complete waste of the Romulans, soooo much potentional there....waste just a waste
Not reaching the waiting fleet, seeing them take on the Scimitar would've been neat, also more Romulans instead of just three new warbirds that went down faster than a TIE Fighter in a shooting gallery.
B-4
Data not thinking enough to bring TWO of the transporter mini's with him..it was to be a rescue attempt wasnt it....BOTH times!
The enduring of the psi rape order
B-4
The fact they attempted to do a wrath of khan clone
The fact that Shinzon did NOT need to be a clone...wouldve been far more interesting had he been a radical Romulan usper
The nosferatu...um Remens
and ofcourse B-4
Though to be honest I also hated we didnt get to see the charming scene of Riker's little prank on Commander Madden (was it?) . it wouldve been nice to see the next number one and realize Riker had one more prank on Jean Luc and the new guy...
wow so many more too...but those were the big ones for me.
Vons
The battle between Shinzon and The E in the nebula
The Dominion war tie in about the Remens
The Jerry Goldsmith
Commander Donatra, and I so agree about her needing a miniskirt! However I liked seeing a Romulan with honor once more ala The Commander from Balance of Terror
Jerry Goldsmith
The look and fee of the modified E, the weapon's racks and the left over feel following the era of war these people just fought. The added decks of the refit though the dark chasm left me wondering.
Jerry Goldsmith
The Riker/Troi wedding/relationship..since it leads to the feel in the Titan series.
The look of the scorpion attack fighters and the Avatar, even the dune buggy (though it needed more of a humvee type feel to it ..more passenger space and cargo capacity)
Didn't like/hated :
The mistake about Picard being bald young when it was already shown he had hair. Poor continuity mistake right off the bat.
The unecessary breach of the prime directive on the dune buggy jaunt
B-4 (been there done that)
A complete waste of the Romulans, soooo much potentional there....waste just a waste
Not reaching the waiting fleet, seeing them take on the Scimitar would've been neat, also more Romulans instead of just three new warbirds that went down faster than a TIE Fighter in a shooting gallery.
B-4
Data not thinking enough to bring TWO of the transporter mini's with him..it was to be a rescue attempt wasnt it....BOTH times!
The enduring of the psi rape order
B-4
The fact they attempted to do a wrath of khan clone
The fact that Shinzon did NOT need to be a clone...wouldve been far more interesting had he been a radical Romulan usper
The nosferatu...um Remens
and ofcourse B-4
Though to be honest I also hated we didnt get to see the charming scene of Riker's little prank on Commander Madden (was it?) . it wouldve been nice to see the next number one and realize Riker had one more prank on Jean Luc and the new guy...
wow so many more too...but those were the big ones for me.
Vons
I loved the Romulans, Tom Hardy, Data's death, Shinzon's ship, Romulans, Data singing Blue Skies, final scene with Riker and Picard, Troi finally leaving the Enterprise forever and ever and ever and Romulans.
Hated the plot, people allowing Troi to get married and possibly procreate, and that bullshit B4 thing.
Hated the plot, people allowing Troi to get married and possibly procreate, and that bullshit B4 thing.
Withers
Captain
I never understood what, exactly, Shinzon's motives were. What was his beef? He understood he was a clone and not the original. So out of bitterness over the fact he decides to destroy the Federation... to prove he's better than Picard? Well, okay, flimsy as that is I can go with it.
But then why did he fight in the Dominion War and help the Federation? Why not just go after him then? In fact what took him so long to show up on the scene? Building his ship at a secret base? Why didn't the Romulans notice that was going on by the way? Someone builds a deadly warship, the likes of which might only be rivaled by a Borg cube in your space, and you don't notice it as the Romulan Empire? Rubbish.
Here's another question- where the hell was the rest of the Romulan fleet? Or just Romulan traffic around the planet in general? The flagship of the Federation (which you just aided in winning a war against the Dominion) shows up on your doorstep, waits for 17 hours, and never hears a word? Rubbish.
I think the acting was... you know, it was what it was, given the script. But that's all I can say. I liked seeing the cast on screen. Even the special effects were terrible. Data's eyes were the wrong color. The torpedoes and phaser fire from the Enterprise didn't look like they'd ever looked before. That stupid, seemingly pointless, force field around the warp core? Just... stupid.
It was a bad movie made worse by the fact that it was the last time we'll see that cast on screen. I'd have rather had a Deep Space Nine... hell, even a Voyager movie over what was delivered in Nemesis. At most that plot was an episode of the series.
-Withers-
But then why did he fight in the Dominion War and help the Federation? Why not just go after him then? In fact what took him so long to show up on the scene? Building his ship at a secret base? Why didn't the Romulans notice that was going on by the way? Someone builds a deadly warship, the likes of which might only be rivaled by a Borg cube in your space, and you don't notice it as the Romulan Empire? Rubbish.
Here's another question- where the hell was the rest of the Romulan fleet? Or just Romulan traffic around the planet in general? The flagship of the Federation (which you just aided in winning a war against the Dominion) shows up on your doorstep, waits for 17 hours, and never hears a word? Rubbish.
I think the acting was... you know, it was what it was, given the script. But that's all I can say. I liked seeing the cast on screen. Even the special effects were terrible. Data's eyes were the wrong color. The torpedoes and phaser fire from the Enterprise didn't look like they'd ever looked before. That stupid, seemingly pointless, force field around the warp core? Just... stupid.
It was a bad movie made worse by the fact that it was the last time we'll see that cast on screen. I'd have rather had a Deep Space Nine... hell, even a Voyager movie over what was delivered in Nemesis. At most that plot was an episode of the series.
-Withers-
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Nemesis is one of my favorite ST movies. I don't care what anyone thinks. Love it, love it, love it! Yes, I'm being serious.
For me it is just disappointing. It just seemed like they had gotten so far away from what made the TNG episodes so great. Another black hat villain with a confused motive...another needless space battle...another lost opportunity.
I always feel like, "They had all that money. They had all these actors. This is the best they could come up with?!?"
I always feel like, "They had all that money. They had all these actors. This is the best they could come up with?!?"
Likes:
1.) The Romulans finally getting a movie of which they are (somewhat) the subject.
2.) Data's death. I sort of view it a more of an homage to Spock's death in STII than a "rip-off".
3.) Riker-Troi marriage. It had to happen.
4.) Shizon-pointless-plot-need-to-kill-Picard-with-random-super-power-device-thing. If the plot of Insurrection wasn't so nearly identical (the super weapon part), then I wouldn't have a problem.
Dislikes:
1.) The Romulans not being a bigger focus.
2.) Data's death. While I agree with it and think it was done well, I hated it.
3.) Riker-Troi leaving Enterprise. I think that, simply because they've been around so long, RIker and Troi should have stayed onboard. Riker has devoted so much time to becoming captain of an Enterprise, why not make Picard retire instead?
1.) The Romulans finally getting a movie of which they are (somewhat) the subject.
2.) Data's death. I sort of view it a more of an homage to Spock's death in STII than a "rip-off".
3.) Riker-Troi marriage. It had to happen.
4.) Shizon-pointless-plot-need-to-kill-Picard-with-random-super-power-device-thing. If the plot of Insurrection wasn't so nearly identical (the super weapon part), then I wouldn't have a problem.
Dislikes:
1.) The Romulans not being a bigger focus.
2.) Data's death. While I agree with it and think it was done well, I hated it.
3.) Riker-Troi leaving Enterprise. I think that, simply because they've been around so long, RIker and Troi should have stayed onboard. Riker has devoted so much time to becoming captain of an Enterprise, why not make Picard retire instead?
Likes:
1. Riker and Troi finally get married
2. Riker finally gets his own ship
3. Wesley is back in Starfleet (ducks)
4. The cut scenes, which make the film a lot stronger
5. The Romulans - for once!
Dislikes:
1. The Wrath Of Shinzon death of Data and the fact he had to die at all. LAME!
2. Shinzon looks NOTHING like Picard and in fact Picard had hair at Shinzon's age. Duh.
3. The film is way too intense for families (Shizon's veins, his impaling, all that...unnecessarily gory to make the film edgy)
4. Stuart Baird's delight in his total ignorance of the Star Trek universe and his total hamfisted/bumbling direction of the film
5. Picard and Crusher still don't get together
6. The TNG franchise goes out with a whimper instead of a bang - by far the worst ST film IMHO
1. Riker and Troi finally get married
2. Riker finally gets his own ship
3. Wesley is back in Starfleet (ducks)
4. The cut scenes, which make the film a lot stronger
5. The Romulans - for once!
Dislikes:
1. The Wrath Of Shinzon death of Data and the fact he had to die at all. LAME!
2. Shinzon looks NOTHING like Picard and in fact Picard had hair at Shinzon's age. Duh.
3. The film is way too intense for families (Shizon's veins, his impaling, all that...unnecessarily gory to make the film edgy)
4. Stuart Baird's delight in his total ignorance of the Star Trek universe and his total hamfisted/bumbling direction of the film
5. Picard and Crusher still don't get together
6. The TNG franchise goes out with a whimper instead of a bang - by far the worst ST film IMHO
LIKES:
-the visual effects, this time courtesy of Digital Domain... the Data/B4 scenes and the space battles all look great
-Jerry Goldsmith's score... again, I hope Varese Sarabande releases an expanded version one day
-Riker and Troi... married at last
-having only seen her in Starship Troopers, I thought Dina Meyer was very good
-Tom Hardy... I thought he was just okay... more a problem of bad writing and a director not known as an "actor's director"
-the space battle, including the explosive decompression of the bridge (all three of director Stuart Baird's movies feature an explosive decompression!)
-the Romulan and Reman costumes (though I'm not a fan of Shinzon's big shoulder pads!)
-the opening on Romulus... freaky stuff
-Picard's "I wait for the dawn" log entry
-all of the cool Okudagrams... more inserts of control panels this time around
DISLIKES:
-for such a big budget, I have to ask, "Where the hell did the money go?"... are those fake translights I see in the background?
-Worf's uncharacteristic "Argh!" when the B4 hand grabs onto him on the planet
-I thought Data's death could've been more poignant if they didn't have B4, whose presence I felt was a copout ("We can rebuild him... make him faster, smarter, etc.")
-the bottomless shaft on the ship... didn't Galaxy Quest make fun of this ten years ago?
-we went from stellar cartography to a glorified Best Buy demo room!
-a total waste of Ron Perlman
-I hate the idea of evil bad guys having evil-looking ships ("Yeah, Shinzon's bad so we wanted to make his ship bad, too.")
-the rushed wedding scene and the non-explanation for Wesley's appearance (I know, it's in one of the "A Time to..." novels)
-Janeway's namedropping... "The Son'a, the Borg..." as if the Enterprise only goes on missions every two years!
-the insulting idea that fans will be honored by such "references" as Defensive Pattern Kirk Epsilon ("See, we mentioned Kirk!")
-many great character moments were left on the cutting room floor
-I thought this film (especially the wedding scene) was a missed opportunity for rekindling the Picard/Beverly romance
-Stuart Baird was wrong for this film... he had two films under his belt: the very fun Executive Decision and the very blah U.S. Marshals... he at least could've tried to do some homework
-why does every TNG film end with Picard fighting the enemy on some scaffolding with a control panel nearby?
-the visual effects, this time courtesy of Digital Domain... the Data/B4 scenes and the space battles all look great
-Jerry Goldsmith's score... again, I hope Varese Sarabande releases an expanded version one day
-Riker and Troi... married at last
-having only seen her in Starship Troopers, I thought Dina Meyer was very good
-Tom Hardy... I thought he was just okay... more a problem of bad writing and a director not known as an "actor's director"
-the space battle, including the explosive decompression of the bridge (all three of director Stuart Baird's movies feature an explosive decompression!)
-the Romulan and Reman costumes (though I'm not a fan of Shinzon's big shoulder pads!)
-the opening on Romulus... freaky stuff
-Picard's "I wait for the dawn" log entry
-all of the cool Okudagrams... more inserts of control panels this time around
DISLIKES:
-for such a big budget, I have to ask, "Where the hell did the money go?"... are those fake translights I see in the background?
-Worf's uncharacteristic "Argh!" when the B4 hand grabs onto him on the planet
-I thought Data's death could've been more poignant if they didn't have B4, whose presence I felt was a copout ("We can rebuild him... make him faster, smarter, etc.")
-the bottomless shaft on the ship... didn't Galaxy Quest make fun of this ten years ago?
-we went from stellar cartography to a glorified Best Buy demo room!
-a total waste of Ron Perlman
-I hate the idea of evil bad guys having evil-looking ships ("Yeah, Shinzon's bad so we wanted to make his ship bad, too.")
-the rushed wedding scene and the non-explanation for Wesley's appearance (I know, it's in one of the "A Time to..." novels)
-Janeway's namedropping... "The Son'a, the Borg..." as if the Enterprise only goes on missions every two years!
-the insulting idea that fans will be honored by such "references" as Defensive Pattern Kirk Epsilon ("See, we mentioned Kirk!")
-many great character moments were left on the cutting room floor
-I thought this film (especially the wedding scene) was a missed opportunity for rekindling the Picard/Beverly romance
-Stuart Baird was wrong for this film... he had two films under his belt: the very fun Executive Decision and the very blah U.S. Marshals... he at least could've tried to do some homework
-why does every TNG film end with Picard fighting the enemy on some scaffolding with a control panel nearby?
Good Lord. In order to fill in some gaps in my ST movie experience, I forced myself to catch up on some of the TNG movies. Up to this movie, they were not horrible, though First Contact still remains my favourite of the TNG bunch. But *this* movie... I'll have to take the word of the people who made it to the end, that said that the movie actually ends, because I didn't make it even halfway through. 
I remember reading about the comparison between Nero and Shinzon and was curious to finally see him. Then I saw him and said, "Oh umm...?"
Even the promise of Data's death couldn't keep me going and then to guess that B4 was probably going to be his replacement (since they went through the trouble of explaining the memory download crap), really made me mad. Oh great, an even more annoying Data = FAIL.
So I cut out early and watched "The Thing" instead.
Maybe one day I'll finish watching Nem... maybe.
Most likely not.
I remember reading about the comparison between Nero and Shinzon and was curious to finally see him. Then I saw him and said, "Oh umm...?"
Even the promise of Data's death couldn't keep me going and then to guess that B4 was probably going to be his replacement (since they went through the trouble of explaining the memory download crap), really made me mad. Oh great, an even more annoying Data = FAIL.
So I cut out early and watched "The Thing" instead.
Maybe one day I'll finish watching Nem... maybe.
Most likely not.
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