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Do you ever think and worry about ...

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But yeah, I'm sure I'll be worrying about money enough. My salary is not through the roof and I've got tons of expenses. But I'm where I want to be and I'm doing what I want to do, so it'll be worth it.


That is so fantastic. Not enough people in this world can say that. I've always told my kids, find a career/job that you LOVE. All the money in the world won't make you enjoy getting up and going to work everyday if you don't LOVE what you do. It's great to hear that someone found that thing in their life that makes them happy!

To answer the OP question: I've never been rich, and we've always had bills and loans and morgages, etc to pay but believe me when i tell you that all the money in the world means nothing if the people that matter most to you are gone (or in danger of being gone). I'd shovel shit against the tide and live in a box as long as my kids are alive, happy and healthy. Take it from someone who almost lost one of them. Money and everything else mean nothing, really.
 
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I have enough money to get by if nothing expensive needs to be paid for such as new glasses or the dentist bill. I could have it far worse and I don't pinch my pennies, but ofcourse I worry. Something always comes around to cause some worries.
 
Since I found out I'll be loosing my job in 3 months, HELLS YA, I've been thinking about it almost daily!

Q2
 
I think & worry about money all the time...not working last 7 months has been hell.

Oh my. I don't know how you have done it! I work for myself and things have been very very tight over the last few years. I have been working a second job for the last year and a half to get me by. I quit my second job in January. I thought I had a new one but it fell through at the last minute so now I don't have one at all. I have been out of work for almost two months now and about to run out of money. I have had a few design jobs in the last couple of weeks (my primary business) but it hasn't been enough to pay the rent. Actually I am having to move out of my apartment this week because I can't pay. (Being a starving artist this isn't the first time I get to put my belongings in storage and sleep on a friends sofa. :( ) But seven months? I would be in a cardboard box behind the Kmart! Good luck though!

And to amend my previous answer, I am freaking out about it today. I don't want to be homeless again.
 
Six years as a student so money is pretty important I suppose. A decent salary after the summer though so can't complain too much. Plenty of friends have found it much harder than me to get a job.
 
I do worry about money, but being single with no dependents and a bit of a tech hound, I tend to spend everything I make.

It's like the part of my brain that wants to save isn't quite as serious about it as the part of my brain that wants to buy stuff.
 
In my life, I've been rich and I've been poor (and in big debt). Truth be told, I was just has happy poor as I was rich. Yes, a minimum amount of money is needed to survive, and that's important for happiness, but beyond that, money is largely irrelevant.
 
In my life, I've been rich and I've been poor...

This reminds me of an old but still amusing quote:

"I've been rich, and I've been poor. Believe me honey, rich is better..." :D

Yes, a minimum amount of money is needed to survive, and that's important for happiness, but beyond that, money is largely irrelevant.

Yeah, in truth, I agree, though of course the definitions of need and survival are subject to YMMV. I have certain high maintenance habits which I would classify as "happy survival" needs. But beyond that, as I wrote upthread, I definitely agree everything else is just gravy. Gravy can still be tasty though.
 
Holdfast wrote:

What you do with your money is entirely your own business, so please don't take this comment as a personal jab, more an observation: the two paragraphs here do not logically follow on from each other (at least, based on the limited information provided).

Learning lessons from bankruptcy/debt would involve making a change to how you balance your income vs your expenditure and drawing down against your 401k to get around your current income restriction hardly fills an observer with much confidence that this has happened. Of course, I hope this observation is wrong, and that you have a prosperous future ahead of you.

Thank you for your insight. When I tell my close friend at work about what I do with my 401K, she gives me an evil look and says, "You what?!?" :lol: Of course, she's much older than I and tends to think more about planning for retirement than someone my age. In a perfect world, I'd have a bigger paycheck to cover my bills and spend on miscellaneous items; thus I wouldn't have to borrow from my 401K. My only concern right now is having a limit on my 401K loan (a maximum of two existing loans at a time). That means I can't take out another loan until November 2010, and I'm worried that my bank account will have been liquidated by that time. :(
 
^Still a bad idea. I never touched mine, even when I was completely broke.
 
Holdfast wrote:

What you do with your money is entirely your own business, so please don't take this comment as a personal jab, more an observation: the two paragraphs here do not logically follow on from each other (at least, based on the limited information provided).

Learning lessons from bankruptcy/debt would involve making a change to how you balance your income vs your expenditure and drawing down against your 401k to get around your current income restriction hardly fills an observer with much confidence that this has happened. Of course, I hope this observation is wrong, and that you have a prosperous future ahead of you.

Thank you for your insight. When I tell my close friend at work about what I do with my 401K, she gives me an evil look and says, "You what?!?" :lol: Of course, she's much older than I and tends to think more about planning for retirement than someone my age. In a perfect world, I'd have a bigger paycheck to cover my bills and spend on miscellaneous items; thus I wouldn't have to borrow from my 401K. My only concern right now is having a limit on my 401K loan (a maximum of two existing loans at a time). That means I can't take out another loan until November 2010, and I'm worried that my bank account will have been liquidated by that time. :(
Like Holdfast, I want to stress don't take this as a jab, but I'd give you an evil look too.

I think you're basicly just mixing up too many beliefs here. You miss having various deductions from owning a home, but what was really happening, you were deducting expenses, things you were paying out. And you couldn't afford those payments, come down to it. So the tax refund, I understand why you think of it this time of year, but really tax refunds are a fraction of what you have paid out for expenses.

Retirement savings will help you when you retire, based on how long you leave them in your investment account. $1000 deposited when you are 25 is worth much more than $1000 deposited when you are 55. So you really just aren't saving money, period. You are borrowing to get a tax deduction, but then (I'm not in the US so this is just my understanding) taking the money out again and facing a penalty? You're in a bad cycle there.

You have a good job with benefits, you are single, but your lifestyle spending is eating away at what ever you might have built. Your financial situation, you have to see it as a "business". You are investing and building a business that will grow and eventually support you, and hopefully enough to also support dependants, in the future. If it is not being built, if you take a brick out for each one you put in, you are just on a tread mill.

You are probably better off not borrowing for the 401k, set yourself a monthly budget, and put a few dollars away in a savings account so you don't have to use a credit card when you run short every now and then. If you don't have enough money for something, then don't buy it. Live like that for a year or two, then think about structuring a retirement fund that you can actually retire on.
 
Good advice. As for paying taxes, that only happens when a person "withdraws" money from his/her 401K, not when he/she "borrows" from it.

Borrowing money from 401K is still a helluva lot better than using credit cards. Basically, the loan repayment is automatically taken out of my biweekly paycheck until everything is paid off. It's my own money to begin with, and the rates are usually much lower than what these bloodsucking credit card companies charge on finance charges.
 
Good approach. I feel that the way round the final, very valid, point is to actually decide what you want out of life ie. what will make you happy, and in quite a clear and concrete way. Then set yourself the goal of not just achieving that, but sustainably maintaining it. That way, extra money/income beyond that point becomes irrelevant. Very welcome, of course, and allows for more intermittent indulgences, but not necessary. That attitude then should lessen the chances of sacrificing quality of life for the irrelevant extra income.

Thanks. I understand what you're saying, but sometimes people simply don't know what makes them happy, or what they can be content with. In a way I think the fact that I was raised with more has allowed me to know what that's like, and that I don't need all of it. I think there are people out there who would choose to live quite frugally, but we would all like the option of having more, wouldn't we?

The one thing (which I know isn't an issue for you, and likely won't be for me) would be children. I know that there is a certain standard of living that I am quite content with, on my own, or with a partner. If I were to have children I think it would be much more difficult to be content with a certain level, and I think I would want to give them every advantage in the world. That's all hypothetical of course, but something I have pondered.
 
Borrowing money from 401K is still a helluva lot better than using credit cards. Basically, the loan repayment is automatically taken out of my biweekly paycheck until everything is paid off. It's my own money to begin with, and the rates are usually much lower than what these bloodsucking credit card companies charge on finance charges.

Your money, and you're paying interest to access it. Seriously, all the post-hoc rationalisation in the world won't make that equation add up. Rather than expending the mental effort to justify it to yourself, why not consider expending the same mental effort to live within your salary, but net of the contributions?

Good approach. I feel that the way round the final, very valid, point is to actually decide what you want out of life ie. what will make you happy, and in quite a clear and concrete way. Then set yourself the goal of not just achieving that, but sustainably maintaining it. That way, extra money/income beyond that point becomes irrelevant. Very welcome, of course, and allows for more intermittent indulgences, but not necessary. That attitude then should lessen the chances of sacrificing quality of life for the irrelevant extra income.

Thanks. I understand what you're saying, but sometimes people simply don't know what makes them happy, or what they can be content with. In a way I think the fact that I was raised with more has allowed me to know what that's like, and that I don't need all of it. I think there are people out there who would choose to live quite frugally, but we would all like the option of having more, wouldn't we?

Sure, and I definitely agree that having never had serious financial concerns in the past, makes it easier to control expectations now. But I would suggest (and I'm saying this more as a general discussion point, rather than aimed at you, since I think you'd agree with it) that the option to have more should be carefully balanced against the effort/cost of getting the more. After a certain point, it's actually more tiring to get the extra, than the enjoyment gained by having it, offers. And it carries an opportunity cost of not being able to do other things, too.

The one thing (which I know isn't an issue for you, and likely won't be for me) would be children. I know that there is a certain standard of living that I am quite content with, on my own, or with a partner. If I were to have children I think it would be much more difficult to be content with a certain level, and I think I would want to give them every advantage in the world. That's all hypothetical of course, but something I have pondered.

Yes, I can understand that. It's relatively easy to set a standard of living for oneself; it would be much harder (and more morally ambiguous) to set one for others.
 
The one thing (which I know isn't an issue for you, and likely won't be for me) would be children. I know that there is a certain standard of living that I am quite content with, on my own, or with a partner. If I were to have children I think it would be much more difficult to be content with a certain level, and I think I would want to give them every advantage in the world. That's all hypothetical of course, but something I have pondered.

Kestra, you are great to have the attitude you have towards money despite having, as you say, a 'priviledged upbringing'.
I have found that unfortunately Son needs a harder lesson. Having doled out money willy nilly when needed and found the use of it being abused, I have cut off pocket money, he gets his college money which I consider enough as it is more 'disposable income' than I have, and if he wants more he will have to find a job, which I am helping him do ~ I'm not totally heartless ;) but some kids get used to handouts and it spoils them. Just my personal take on it.

To Drone ~ everyday! I check my bank accounts daily to see what's left. But I'm proud to say that I owe nothing and bills are paid on time. Cliche time ~ I don't have much but what I do have is bought and paid for by me.
Ten years ago was a very different story which I learned from. Now I don't have credit cards and I do check my supermarket receipt to make sure I've got the discounts :lol:
 
It always shocked me in college how many students had an "allowance" from their parents. If I had asked for or expected such a thing from my parents they would have had a heart attack, and they make decent money. They did not even pay for any of our tuition or room and board, they expected us to have the initiative to get scholarships and loans (which we did). I know some people whose parents took out loans themselves to pay for their children's education! While that makes college life a little easier for the student, I just can't see what that's really teaching them. I understand when parents help, such as when my parents helped to get me a used car, but actually giving college kids an allowance is crazy to me. That's what a job is for!

It also produces some unhealthy habits if the student gets accustomed to having this extra spending money and then when they do get a job and stop getting an allowance, they expect to still be able to go out and buy those extra things they did before. So they get credit cards to support this habit and eventually end up with tons of debt and living beyond their means because they expect it or feel they "deserve" it.

I would much rather have a college student start from the bottom up, living the lowly life of ramen noodles and plastic furniture and slowly building up in lifestyle as their earnings build, instead of starting them off with an allowance that will allow them to get used to being comfortable with a certain amount and then have to cut back (which is not easy) when their allowance stops and they only have minimum wage jobs that don't support their previous lifestyle.

Of course you will always have those who are responsible about the whole thing and can handle it. But it seems like most people my age fall in to this money trap when their parents stop supporting them.
 
Kestra, you are great to have the attitude you have towards money despite having, as you say, a 'priviledged upbringing'.

I have found that unfortunately Son needs a harder lesson. Having doled out money willy nilly when needed and found the use of it being abused, I have cut off pocket money, he gets his college money which I consider enough as it is more 'disposable income' than I have, and if he wants more he will have to find a job, which I am helping him do ~ I'm not totally heartless ;) but some kids get used to handouts and it spoils them. Just my personal take on it.

It always shocked me in college how many students had an "allowance" from their parents... that makes college life a little easier for the student, I just can't see what that's really teaching them. I understand when parents help, such as when my parents helped to get me a used car, but actually giving college kids an allowance is crazy to me.

Two interesting takes on the issue.

I wonder if there's something in Kestra's and my own upbringing that stopped us developing bad habits re: money, despite "generously solvent" parents who helped us through early life. I think in my personal case, two factors were important in stopping me become a wastrel, despite having my education paid for and being given a generous amount of money to get me through university:

Firstly, I only had a very minimal amount of pocket money until I started college. Like, enough for a chocolate bar that day, but that's it. But if I actually needed something, my parents paid for it, and they were pretty generous with their treats. I think this made me realise that while I didn't have any money of my own, I did share in the ownership of family wealth. Not having any personal disposable income, combined with easy - but still controlled - access to the family's money forced me to be as protective of their money, as I was of the few pounds they officially gave me as pocket money. I don't think they deliberately worked out the logic of this, but it was a good strategy to force me to understand both the importance of saving and the principles of money management. I also learnt how to negotiate, since they'd very rarely buy me something if I just threw a wobbly; I always had to create a reasoned argument in order to persuade them. In hindsight, I'm certain that a lot of the time, they'd already decided whether to buy me what I wanted or no, but they still just made me go through the process of effectively applying for the money.

What was definitely deliberate was the second factor: from a very young age, my father would actively try to interest me in money, finance, economics and the like. He'd get me to help balance the chequebook, look over the bank accounts, check over his payslips from work and explain what each part meant, discuss interest rates on savings accounts, how to minimise tax exposure, the merits of different investment funds, how the stock market works, monetary and fiscal policy, etc, etc, etc.

And as I got older, he then let ME decide (while subtly guiding me) the big investment decisions that HE was making that year, so I effectively got to make the decisions and get a "dry run" at how to manage money. I could then follow how the investments that "I'd" made in previous years did by checking the fund prices, keeping an eye on economic news, etc, etc.

So from a young age, I developed a keen interest in "the game" behind money, and how to get the number ticking upwards, while at the same time realising how ephemeral it can be. By learning to treat it as an elegant game/system, it became enjoyable to manage money well.

Whatever the reasons, it's meant that I appreciated how to handle significant income streams way before I ever had to handle them in real life myself. I think that helped a lot, later on, despite being more or less bankrolled through university. I don't intend to have children, but if I did, I'd want to educate them about the fun of managing money well, in the same way.
 
But I'm proud to say that I owe nothing and bills are paid on time. Cliche time ~ I don't have much but what I do have is bought and paid for by me.
Ten years ago was a very different story which I learned from. Now I don't have credit cards and I do check my supermarket receipt to make sure I've got the discounts :lol:

I don't have any credit cards either and everything I buy is mine. I may not have much but at least I am not in debt up to my ears. Oh and I love coupons!

It always shocked me in college how many students had an "allowance" from their parents.

It blows me away! My parents have never given me anything, other than love and support. The day after I turned 16, my mom hauled me off to fill-out applications for my first job. And since then I have been responsible for my own clothes, food, etc. Hell I even moved out of their house when I was barely 18. I was still in high school and I left home! Who does that anymore? (I have this hysterically funny story about the principal of my high school wanting to call my mom but needed to know where she was. I had to explain to him I didn't live with her anymore and I didn't know where she was. You should have seen the look on his face.) I paid for college. I paid for my first car. I paid for my insurance. I may not be very secure financially (with an artistic career that ebbs flows like the sea) but I am dependent on no one. Actually I am proud to say that I have only needed to borrow money from my parents once and that was for a dental emergency seven years ago. (And the money was paid back in less than a month.)
 
Kestra, you are great to have the attitude you have towards money despite having, as you say, a 'priviledged upbringing'.

I have found that unfortunately Son needs a harder lesson. Having doled out money willy nilly when needed and found the use of it being abused, I have cut off pocket money, he gets his college money which I consider enough as it is more 'disposable income' than I have, and if he wants more he will have to find a job, which I am helping him do ~ I'm not totally heartless ;) but some kids get used to handouts and it spoils them. Just my personal take on it.

It always shocked me in college how many students had an "allowance" from their parents... that makes college life a little easier for the student, I just can't see what that's really teaching them. I understand when parents help, such as when my parents helped to get me a used car, but actually giving college kids an allowance is crazy to me.

Two interesting takes on the issue.

I wonder if there's something in Kestra's and my own upbringing that stopped us developing bad habits re: money, despite "generously solvent" parents who helped us through early life. I think in my personal case, two factors were important in stopping me become a wastrel, despite having my education paid for and being given a generous amount of money to get me through university ( snip interesting points)
My children are only 5 and 13 so I can't give any final conclusions or advice, it's all still a work in progress. But what I've noticed is that they learn by doing things with them.

You don't lock a child in room with a book and order them to learn to read. Of course this is absurd, but think about how often parents use this method to try to teach them so many other things.

Children learn to eat by watching their parents at the table, being spoonfed, and then learn (hopefully manners) by sitting with us every night. They learn to walk when we take them by the hand. They learn to speak when we talk to them.

This is a tried and true method, and even as they age, I've yet to see it fail. What you describe, Holdfast, is your father teaching in a caring manner the same way he doubtless taught you to speak and walk.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that my methods will continue to work, so far so good.
 
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