TNG's Sherlock Holmes

[RobertScorpio]

I just saw the new Sherlock Holmes movie with Mr. Ironman himself, and I have to say; I was bored. I just didn't 'buy' Robert Downey Jr as Sherlock Holmes. I wont spoil it for you, but its not that its a terrible movie; I just came out of there with a feeling of 'eh'...could have been better.

Does anyone know if there were script issus with that movie? Because it just didn't seem to have any flow to it; almost like it was rushed..

Now..on to TNG. I think TNG's two stabs of Sherlock Holme's universe were, IMO, more fun to watch than the movie. Sure, it was all in fun, but I found the 'tension' in the two TREK episodes far better written than the movie.

By the way..has Jude Law ever been in a hit movie?

Rob

 

[Too Much Fun]

What a coincidence that you'd bring this up when just yesterday I watched "Elementary, My Dear Data". I've said it before and I'm convinced even more now - Holodeck Moriarty was one of the best, most underrated villains ever in Star Trek. I loved Daniel Davis's performance and how strong writing made the rather absurd premise of an 18th century fictional character being a legitimate threat to the Enterprise not only work, but work wonderfully TWICE. In both of his appearances, Moriarty was the catalyst for a story that was engaging both because of its action and plot developments as well as philosophical questions and discussions (which in many cases describes Star Trek at its best, in my opinion).

That's a good point about Jude Law. He doesn't have the best track record when it comes to movies (even the Spielberg movie he was in was one of the hitmaker's lesser efforts financially and critically, as far as I know), but I have seen three movies he was in that I thought were very good and did well - "Closer", "Road to Perdition", and "The Aviator" (he was hardly in that last one, though).

Robert Downey Jr. is obviously a marvelously talented and charismatic actor, but I didn't think he could fit the character of Sherlock Holmes regardless of what a chameleon he can be. I think they would have been better off sticking to more traditional casting with that role by going with a British actor. I knew Downey could nail that accent because I saw "Chaplain", but I figured he wouldn't be right for the role despite that ability.

As for the script, I don't know...but looking at its screenwriting credits, I wouldn't be too surprised if it was poor (haven't seen the movie). Two of the writers have hardly any writing experience and the third has written XXX2, the mediocre third X-Men movie, and "Mr. and Mrs. Smith". Not a very impressive resume.

 

[DonIago]

I found SH to be an amusing romp. Given that we don't quite know how that world's going to pan out yet, I'm willing to see what happens next.

Liked the two TNG SH eps as well, though I prefer the second's Holodeck-within-a-Holodeck conceit to the first's "Oops, Geordi misspoke." Moriarty is pretty well-played, though I have to admit I prefer my villains a little less smugly arrogant (whether or not it's true to the books notwithstanding).

 

[RobertScorpio]

What a coincidence that you'd bring this up when just yesterday I watched "Elementary, My Dear Data". I've said it before and I'm convinced even more now - Holodeck Moriarty was one of the best, most underrated villains ever in Star Trek. I loved Daniel Davis's performance and how strong writing made the rather absurd premise of an 18th century fictional character being a legitimate threat to the Enterprise not only work, but work wonderfully TWICE. In both of his appearances, Moriarty was the catalyst for a story that was engaging both because of its action and plot developments as well as philosophical questions and discussions (which in many cases describes Star Trek at its best, in my opinion).

That's a good point about Jude Law. He doesn't have the best track record when it comes to movies (even the Spielberg movie he was in was one of the hitmaker's lesser efforts financially and critically, as far as I know), but I have seen three movies he was in that I thought were very good and did well - "Closer", "Road to Perdition", and "The Aviator" (he was hardly in that last one, though).

Robert Downey Jr. is obviously a marvelously talented and charismatic actor, but I didn't think he could fit the character of Sherlock Holmes regardless of what a chameleon he can be. I think they would have been better off sticking to more traditional casting with that role by going with a British actor. I knew Downey could nail that accent because I saw "Chaplain", but I figured he wouldn't be right for the role despite that ability.

As for the script, I don't know...but looking at its screenwriting credits, I wouldn't be too surprised if it was poor (haven't seen the movie). Two of the writers have hardly any writing experience and the third has written XXX2, the mediocre third X-Men movie, and "Mr. and Mrs. Smith". Not a very impressive resume.

oh i totally agree...I consider MORIARTY to be Picard's true nemesis since Q was more like a pest...Moriarty was more Picard's equal...

Rob

 

[Anwar]

I thought the new Sherlock Holmes was pretty god. Sure, there were the action elements but they stayed pretty true to Holmes and Watson's book portrayals. Law wasn't some old bumbler for one thing.

 

[Luckyflux]

Not trying to hijack the thread Rob, but how did...

SHERLOCK HOLMES SPOILERS AHEAD.........












How did Moriarity know about Blackburns remote receiver device in the first place? Blackburns plan to use the device wasn't revealed until the end, so how did Moriarity know about it?

 

[Greg Cox]

By the way..has Jude Law ever been in a hit movie?

Elementary. SHERLOCK HOLMES is a hit.

 

[Trekker4747]

If I'm not mistaken the Sherlock in the new movie is closer to the "concept" of Holmes than how he was potrayed in TNG.

 

[Corran Horn]

Not trying to hijack the thread Rob, but how did...

SHERLOCK HOLMES SPOILERS AHEAD.........












How did Moriarity know about Blackburns remote receiver device in the first place? Blackburns plan to use the device wasn't revealed until the end, so how did Moriarity know about it?

He's the Napoleon of Crime, baby.

 

[RobertScorpio]

Not trying to hijack the thread Rob, but how did...

SHERLOCK HOLMES SPOILERS AHEAD.........












How did Moriarity know about Blackburns remote receiver device in the first place? Blackburns plan to use the device wasn't revealed until the end, so how did Moriarity know about it?

He's the Napoleon of Crime, baby.

Yeah...i hadn't thought about that...

Rob

 

[DonIago]

Perhaps Moriarty supplied it in the first place?

 

[Anwar]

He's a professor, the midget inventor may have used his University for some of his experiments and Moriarty found out there.

 

[Lt.Cmdr.LaForge]

Personally I loved the new Sherlock Holmes movie so much that it inspired me to buy the box set of all 4 novels and 56 short stories of Sherlock Holmes. From reading these texts I believe the Robert D Jr. portrail of Holmes is very accurate.

As for the Star Treck eps concerning Holmes and the Holo-Moriarty they are personal favourites of mine. Definately an underated Star Trek 'villain'. I used inverted commas, because i don't believe he was a villain as such, he ended up befriending Picard.

 

[DonIago]

Eh...while he may have befriended Picard at the end of the first episode, by the end of the second the only reason they were friends was because Moriarty believed he'd pulled the wool over Picard's eyes, and Picard didn't bother to disavow him of the notion.

I'm not sure it would be a -good- idea, but I'd be curious to see what would happen if Moriarty ever learned he -still- wasn't real.

 

[RobertScorpio]

Eh...while he may have befriended Picard at the end of the first episode, by the end of the second the only reason they were friends was because Moriarty believed he'd pulled the wool over Picard's eyes, and Picard didn't bother to disavow him of the notion.

I'm not sure it would be a -good- idea, but I'd be curious to see what would happen if Moriarty ever learned he -still- wasn't real.

Did anyone ever write a book based on that possible third encounter? I would definately get it!!!

Rob

 

[DonIago]

As far as I know, there's no fiction on the subject, but I'm not the most knowledgeable on the subject. I might recommend posting the question in Trek Lit. Feel free to mention that I brought it up.

I could see Moriarty having a "Remember Me"-style incident if his portable holodeck was damaged during the crash in GEN. But there's the question of how to get him out of the box. A story that took place entirely in his holouniverse wouldn't personally appeal to me.

Now if he learned about The Doctor's portable emitter, that could yield some interesting results possibly.

 

[buckeyenation]

For some reason i can't help help thinking that "Ship in a Bottle" to be a very depressing outing.Not bad in terms of quality, but just a real downer. Don't quite know why, either

 

[RobertScorpio]

For some reason i can't help help thinking that "Ship in a Bottle" to be a very depressing outing.Not bad in terms of quality, but just a real downer. Don't quite know why, either

Im not sure what you mean? I think its a great episode that really twists at the end and, when I saw it the first time, I didn't see it coming..

Rob

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Eh...while he may have befriended Picard at the end of the first episode, by the end of the second the only reason they were friends was because Moriarty believed he'd pulled the wool over Picard's eyes, and Picard didn't bother to disavow him of the notion.

I'm not sure it would be a -good- idea, but I'd be curious to see what would happen if Moriarty ever learned he -still- wasn't real.

Did anyone ever write a book based on that possible third encounter? I would definately get it!!!

Such a story has been pitched to Pocket in the past.

I pitched one in 2002. I looked at the outline not too long ago. I'm not the only one to pitch a Moriarty story.

I know that John Ordover had some reluctance to revisit Moriarty, because Sherlock Holmes is not public domain in the United States. (He is everywhere else in the world, but the last few stories in Casebook are still covered by copyright here.) Moriarty, however, is public domain; his last appearance in The Valley of Fear passed into public domain a number of years ago.

 

[RobertScorpio]

Eh...while he may have befriended Picard at the end of the first episode, by the end of the second the only reason they were friends was because Moriarty believed he'd pulled the wool over Picard's eyes, and Picard didn't bother to disavow him of the notion.

I'm not sure it would be a -good- idea, but I'd be curious to see what would happen if Moriarty ever learned he -still- wasn't real.

Did anyone ever write a book based on that possible third encounter? I would definately get it!!!

Such a story has been pitched to Pocket in the past.

I pitched one in 2002. I looked at the outline not too long ago. I'm not the only one to pitch a Moriarty story.

I know that John Ordover had some reluctance to revisit Moriarty, because Sherlock Holmes is not public domain in the United States. (He is everywhere else in the world, but the last few stories in Casebook are still covered by copyright here.) Moriarty, however, is public domain; his last appearance in The Valley of Fear passed into public domain a number of years ago.

The thing is? The actor who played him did such a great job, could his arrogance translate over into a book? We'd have to get our best writer's on the job!!! Mack--Chris--Krad; your services are required!!!

Rob