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The Woman? (Spoilers)

What's the big deal about the Doctor being half-human? Why does it bother people so much?

It's simple. The Doctor used the chameleon arch to make himself have some human DNA in order to ensure the Master couldn't gain control of the TARDIS.

In the film, after the Master has forced an emergency landing of the TARDIS, the Doctor sees that they are landing on Earth and says, "oh, no." This is because the Master can now just grab any idiot off the street (i.e. Grace) and gain control of the TARDIS.

This also explains why this was the only time the Doctor took a few hours to regenerate, instead of right away. The human traits in his DNA mucked up the process a little. It also explains the cravat. :lol:
 
I suggest we just pretend it never happened. In time, we will forget it ever happened.

It's been over 40 years since that tombstone said James R. Kirk. Sorry, but science fiction fans love to nitpick and they have extraordinarily long memories. By the time people have forgotten it happened, you and I will long since have turned to dust.
True. That Lungbarrow stuff about looms and clones is still going on. Despite the show clearing saying that the Doctor has been a father and a grandfather.

What's the big deal about the Doctor being half-human? Why does it bother people so much?
It doesn't bother me really. But the show is ignoring it apparently.
 
While trying to look into this character's identity a bit more (yeah.. like I'm going to figure it out) I noticed a couple of things in the confrontation between the Doctor and Rassilon. When the Doctor locks eyes with the Woman... I do hear a familiar theme that sounds like Rose's theme. But I couldn't help thinking that we've heard it before, such as during the 4th series with Donna. So I doubt the music has any significance in the Woman's identity but is instead used solely for mood.

A second thing, which has nothing to do with all this. This Woman subtly shifts her eyes towards the machine the Master had created. I hadn't noticed it before last night when I rewatched the film with my wife. Nice touch.
 
Well, who knows. And personally i like it that way. Like the way Moffat wrote the silence in the library/forest of the dead two parter, "Spoilers, Darling." Best explanation for this. As much as we hate spoilers we all know that we just HAVE to know what they are spoiling. Its in our inner geek nature to want to be spoiled.

Id prefere if it were never explained, because 9 times out of 10, its always more disapointing than we expect.


But, to be honest, i reckon RTD was hinting towards Susan or maybe Romana or, as said, a future link to Donna, as she glanced at her.
 
Yeah, but glancing at Donna is suggestive towards Susan because they're both granddaughters.
 
I didn't figure it out at the time but I'm sure it was supposed to be Susan, given the look at Wilf's granddaughter.

They should've just stated it explicitly in the show. Ok, so they were apparently worried that it would confuse new viewers?! So, having this woman remain unidentified makes it less confusing?! No, it just adds to the confusion for old and new viewers alike. If the Doctor had explained it was his granddaughter, older viewers would figure it out and new viewers would understand it as well. And, it would be another nice bond to Wilf, each having a granddaughter.

Mr Awe
 
Gotta love it when people project intentions onto someone else, whom they then lambast for having those intentions. Talk about predestination paradox...
 
Has anyone asked yet - it Susan was the woman...who was the *other* woman NEXT to her that opposed the bringing back of Galifrey???

the one Rassalon had hold her head in shame at his other side opposite the Woman who talked to Wilfe???

Susan = woman #1 ...Romana = woman #2

And as for all the Doctor - and the Timelords - being sexless and all -- and Susan Not really being his granddaughter - and now him not *really* being married to River Song -- even notice how a lot of those who keep pushing that theory, despite direct contradiction to it onscreen in the spoken dialog...

...are mostly made up of the never-kissed-a-girl 30+ year-old virgin types?

They want their hero to be sexless - like them - and by *choice*, because somehow it's more noble and both He and they are somehow "above" all that stuff...(as opposed to just being losers when it comes to talking to girls...)...?

And I say that *myself* as a guy who was a virgin through high school - and them some.

Only *I* finally got of the courage to ask a girl out and make babies with her, lol...

I'm just saying.
 
Yeah, but glancing at Donna is suggestive towards Susan because they're both granddaughters.

She was also a bride. Maybe he was thinking of his wife. Or his daughter's wedding. Maybe the Woman once had red hair. Maybe she, like Donna, is someone he will miss. Or maybe he was looking at Donna to avoid Wilf's question and get back to the reason he was there.
 
What's the big deal about the Doctor being half-human? Why does it bother people so much?
It doesn't bother me really. But the show is ignoring it apparently.[/QUOTE]

They are ignoring - but not really outright making a point of directly contradicting...if they wanted to do that, they wouldn't have *twice* acknowledged the 8th Doctor a canon.

Personally, I love the idea of the Doctor being 1/2 human because it explains his fondness for Earth - and the UK - and his various Brit accents...

His mother was a British human?

BUT - the Doctor can STILL be 100% biologically Timelord - if, either his mother was somehow elevated to Time Lady status (if they can make a Timelord human - then why not vise verse...only reason the Doctor didn't - or hasn't *yet* done that to Donna is because alone, he doesn't have the power..)

Or, the Doctors biology is 99.999% Timelord...but they kept some features and "genetic memory" (I just made that up) of his human moth in the mix.

So the Doctor is *BOTH* 1/2 human - *AND* 100% Time Lord!
 
Yeah, but glancing at Donna is suggestive towards Susan because they're both granddaughters.

She was also a bride. Maybe he was thinking of his wife. Or his daughter's wedding. Maybe the Woman once had red hair. Maybe she, like Donna, is someone he will miss. Or maybe he was looking at Donna to avoid Wilf's question and get back to the reason he was there.


I wonder if even the *writers* don't know - and are keeping all the various possibilities open.

Maybe that's why they didn't get the actress who originally played Susan or Romana back...

She could be *anyone*...and will become who they finally think they want her to be in the future.
 
Has anyone asked yet - it Susan was the woman...who was the *other* woman NEXT to her that opposed the bringing back of Galifrey???

the one Rassalon had hold her head in shame at his other side opposite the Woman who talked to Wilfe???

That was a guy wasn't it?
 
^ I thought it was a woman too and she looked like a twin almost.

Another vote for Susan here, even though there are others on this board who know "Who" lore better than I, my impression was Susan from the beginning. But knowing RTD it likely does not match his idea.
 
Wasn't there a roumer a while back that RTD wanted to show the doctors mother or something?

I may be getting it confused with some of the early Jenny roumers (i.e "The Son of Doctor Who!" etc), but maybe big Russ had in mind some half-baked idea (wouldn't be the first) to show the doctors mum?
 
They are ignoring - but not really outright making a point of directly contradicting...if they wanted to do that, they wouldn't have *twice* acknowledged the 8th Doctor a canon.

Personally, I love the idea of the Doctor being 1/2 human because it explains his fondness for Earth - and the UK - and his various Brit accents...

His mother was a British human?

That's something I took from "The Empty Child" two-parter. The Doctor sounded like he really understood what was going on when he talked about how there wasn't anything in the world that could stop a scared little boy who wanted his mommy. It's been a long time since I explicated on it, but I seem to remember there being some other stuff from the new series that supported my supposition that a lot of the Doctor's issues come from the fact that he had a human mother who died when he was very young. And it was even more shattering for him because, on Gallifrey, no one dies. They just regenerate. He (and his father) would probably be the only people on a planet of immortals who'd had to deal with that kind of loss, and knowing the Time-Lords, the rest of them probably weren't very empathetic towards his situation. And that's why he runs.

Years later, after "Journey's End," I figured that the perfect woman would be one Donna Nobel. Getting into a pre-Time War period the only way anyone can, by living into it, she eventually meets a dashing man unlike any other who sweeps her off her feet and then takes her to his distant home planet to build a family with her. And one day, something about her young son reminds her of the man he was going to become and, bang, "Where's my mummy?" And that's why he never dares to look back at what he's done. Kids often assume that anything that goes wrong in the family is somehow their fault, and even if he didn't understand how it was possible, the little Doctor would believe he'd somehow made mommy go away.

(The actual thing that made me think it could be Donna was that it just seemed so damn arbitrary that it was her who combined with the spare hand, but it was so predestined and built up. I mean, there were a dozen things that meant that Rose and only Rose could make the Bad Wolf that were unrelated to it's predestination, but the only reason we got the Doctor-Donna and not the Doctor-Jack or the Doctor-Rose was that Donna heard a noise and didn't step out of the TARDIS as quickly as the others, making it a self-fulfilling prophecy. The plot-hole would be filled handily, however, if Donna was the only one who could make the metacrisis work... say, because she was a relative of the Doctor, and Jack and Rose weren't.)

It also has a funny little thematic tie with everyone assuming the Doctor and Donna were a couple; they were actually related (though she seemed more like a big sister than a mom, which could go back to "The Empty Child" again).

Of course, now that's all kaput, since the Doctor left an auto-wipe in Donna's head so she'll never actually die of Time-Lord-itis, complete with energy-bomb-thingy to give a right smack to whoever reminded her of something Time-Lordy, and she's gotten married to a guy with absolutely no resemblance to William Hartnell (though I suppose he could regenerate before they go back to Gallifrey...)
 
Yeah, but glancing at Donna is suggestive towards Susan because they're both granddaughters.
Every woman is somebody's granddaughter.

Yeah, but glancing at Donna is suggestive towards Susan because they're both granddaughters.

She was also a bride. Maybe he was thinking of his wife. Or his daughter's wedding. Maybe the Woman once had red hair. Maybe she, like Donna, is someone he will miss. Or maybe he was looking at Donna to avoid Wilf's question and get back to the reason he was there.
Yes, yes, but within the confines of the story, the relationship Wilf has with Donna is important. Wilf pleads to The Doctor to make Donna right. And after all, it's Wilf who The Doctor is answering. Is granddaughter the most obvious answer? No, perhaps not, but it does make sense thematically.
 
I think that RTD said someone that the other person covering their eyes was a man, and that he was surprised people weren't speculating about his identity. From that, it sounds like he meant it to be the Doctor's parents.

But that makes very little sense to me. Only Susan makes sense to me, for all the reasons already mentioned. (The whole parallel with him and Wilf and Donna, specifically.) But whoever it is, it's obviously someone extremely close to the Doctor, because it looked like torture to sacrifice her twice.
 
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