It is also worth noting that bar for "good ratings" for a cable channel is noticeably lower than good ratings for a non-cable network.
S5 had a better shot at happening than we thought...
- Thread starter darkwing_duck1
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It is also worth noting that bar for "good ratings" for a cable channel is noticeably lower than good ratings for a non-cable network.
Yep, that was bit of mix-or-match reasoning as well.
On top of the rest of it, the management of UPN at that time didn't see the demographic make-up of Enterprise's audience as serving the interests of the network - they were determined to compete for the same young viewers as the CW, and once the network had what they considered a real hit - "America's Next Top Model" - to build their programming around they lost the last vestiges of interest in their former tent pole.
Yes Berman had major issues with not just Moonves but some of the other suits as well, really no revelation there. The only behind the scenes issue I have yet to see revealed, is the real reason Braga stepped back (and thus Manny stepping up for S4), I have mentioned it before, but will wait to see if some one on the inside will publicly confirm it, if anyone on the Enterprise production crew is reading this you know what im talking about.
Back on topic, Moonves just wanted Berman gone. Money was never the issue with the show (no, Im not talking about the TU fund drive) the studio had it, and also there was an advertising company based in New Zealand that offered to pay for mostly all of Enterprise advertising slots. They were a bit too late coming into the situation in early March 2005, If they jumped in earlier in late 2004 then the situation may have been different. Well, whats done is done a reunion movie would be nice but I just can't see it happening anytime soon. If CBS ever did a another series it would be in Abrams sandbox now. CBS simply does not support Star Trek anything like former sibling Viacom does, and while Mooves runs it there is little hope.
BTW, I agree with Dennis's post above that played alot into it also, the proof later being the dismantling of UPN in favor of a joint venture with the WB to make 'teen centric' channel, CW.
Back on topic, Moonves just wanted Berman gone. Money was never the issue with the show (no, Im not talking about the TU fund drive) the studio had it, and also there was an advertising company based in New Zealand that offered to pay for mostly all of Enterprise advertising slots. They were a bit too late coming into the situation in early March 2005, If they jumped in earlier in late 2004 then the situation may have been different. Well, whats done is done a reunion movie would be nice but I just can't see it happening anytime soon. If CBS ever did a another series it would be in Abrams sandbox now. CBS simply does not support Star Trek anything like former sibling Viacom does, and while Mooves runs it there is little hope.
BTW, I agree with Dennis's post above that played alot into it also, the proof later being the dismantling of UPN in favor of a joint venture with the WB to make 'teen centric' channel, CW.
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^ I think Braga stepping back was because he started development of Threshold. Although, Coto stepping up didn't mean Braga didn't do anything. He was still heavily involved with season, including doing uncredited rewrites on several scripts such as "Affliction/Divergence".
Braga was still contributing to the show, no question. But it was mostly from home and he was not at the studio that much there was a reason for that beyond him trying to develop other projects like Threshold. Braga is a good writer but sometime his 'vices' can cause issues. But hey, everyone is human, no one is perfect.
It is also worth noting that good ratings for CW is lower than cable channels since CW shows were only available to half of the US. 2-3 million for ENT translates to 4-6 million for a nationwide audience.
Enterprise wasn't on the CW, which didn't exist in those days - It was on UPN, which had considerably more coverage than "half the US."
She was referring to Rick Berman when she made those comments. At the time she made these remarks, she was commenting specifically about season 3 stuff she didn't like.
I doubt Moonves had any influence on any ENT stories and characterizations. At his level, all he would have been interested in were UPN's profits and perhaps ratings.
on the ratings thing.
the changes we know have in how ratings are counted and the growing importance of tivo was already on the horizon.
if enterprise had lasted another season it would have really started to benefit from this.
it was upn's second highest show after top model.
i cant find the link any more but soon after cancelation there was some quotes from a turner excutive who said that even though other networks were interested there was resistance to even shopping the show.
as for the movies..
actually moonves indirectly caused the new star trek to happen when he told then paramount head they only had a certain amount of time to put a new movie into production or paramount pictures would lose the rights to the films.
the changes we know have in how ratings are counted and the growing importance of tivo was already on the horizon.
if enterprise had lasted another season it would have really started to benefit from this.
it was upn's second highest show after top model.
i cant find the link any more but soon after cancelation there was some quotes from a turner excutive who said that even though other networks were interested there was resistance to even shopping the show.
as for the movies..
actually moonves indirectly caused the new star trek to happen when he told then paramount head they only had a certain amount of time to put a new movie into production or paramount pictures would lose the rights to the films.
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Enterprise's fate was due in part to bad timing. There was a conflux of issue that converged seemingly at the same time, inside politics was one of the factors for sure, but not the only one.
Back to the present day, CBS right now is just the wrong entity to own Star Trek, you can see it in many places, the management situation at startrek.com for example. Unless CBS can be garanteed hassless profit you won't see any productions from them anytime soon.
Back to the present day, CBS right now is just the wrong entity to own Star Trek, you can see it in many places, the management situation at startrek.com for example. Unless CBS can be garanteed hassless profit you won't see any productions from them anytime soon.
Great point.
Do you have any proof other than rumour? Is this something you simply made up? I am no fan of Braga, but it is pretty low to keep making these slimy comments (this is the second time) in this thread without providing any proof.
As Commie said upthread, Les Moonves is an absolute fucking moron. I remember him saying in an interview a few months before the end of season three and before he got control of all Viacom companies (under which UPN fell) that if it were up to him, he'd canceled Enterprise by then.
From the many ....interesting cancellations I've read about over the course of his career with CBS, Enterprise was pretty much sunk the moment he took over Viacom. And to be honest, I'm certainly ENT got a fourth season not because anyone expected ratings to spike so much as 98 episodes look better for syndication than 76. Even as unpopular as ENT was first run, they'd still be able to make a buck off of it on Spiffy in reruns.
Considering how the two of them were well at odds, I take that with a grain of salt coming from Wang. If TIIC wanted to kick Berman's ass out, I'd assume they'd done it after the end of Voyager instead of greenlight another Trek show with him as producer, unless they had a contract with him (which I doubt).
I'll believe him, solely on the basis of Wang being one of the coolest Trek cast members ever, and Berman being Berman.
It's still highly controversial whether and to what extent DVR ratings count for anything. Networks have been seeding articles all over the internet exaggerating how much they count as part of a campaign to convince advertisers to pony up more $$ for them. As long as the advertisers dig in their heels, DVR ratings are worthless. A lot of what we read about the value DVR ratings is sheer corporate spin.
ENT was doomed on UPN anyway. The strategy for the CW was to focus on the young female demographic (good strategy, since it gets them out of direct competition with bigger networks for ad dollars - if you're an advertiser and have a product targeted only to young females, you'll buy airtime on the CW rather than a less well-targeted network). Star Trek just doesn't line up with this strategy. It would be better suited to Fox.
Well , I have not said anything other than he has some 'vices' and I won't mention anything here unless someone else wants to speak of it. Needless to say, I have hung around with alot of the crew from Enterprise so I do know some of the stories and stand by my sources. Does not matter now, its all water under the bridge, what has happened has happened, luckily for Braga, Manny got him a gig on 24 and he has done a great job with FlashForward. Braga is a good writer and I wish him well. I don't know why I brought it up, probably because this thread was talking about inside stuff. Let's just drop it and move on.
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Viacom (when they were all one company with CBS) had huge contract with Berman that expired in 2006. I forgot the contract details but I will see if I can pull something up on it. If it were not for that contract, Moonves could have yanked him as the showrunner and put someone else in there .
You brought it up twice, which makes it a concerted effort on your part to take an underhanded shot at Braga. I don't know whether your so-called sources exist or not, but as for your "inside knowledge" I suggest that you keep such supposed insights to yourself unless you are prepared to offer solid proof to support your claims. If you are not prepared to do this then please kindly refrain from commenting.
As I said before, I am not a fan of Braga, but I am also not remotely interested in reading unsubstantiated rumours/mudslinging spread by so-called insiders. I don't know if you hung around with cast members, camera grips, or figments of your imagination but it is not unheard of for people to spread rumours about one of the bosses.
Now -- I agree that we should move on from this tripe.
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Dude, I can say whatever the hell I want here. People take shots (underhanded or direct) at Braga all the time in this forum, where have you been? I never 'claimed' anything in this thread. Some others here know what I was refering too and I was trying to see if anyone would mention that topic with out me have to. Braga is not my 'boss', maybe he is yours, I don't know.
This forum is for people to express there opinions and knowledge, If you don't like what I have to say then don't reply to my posts unless your a moderator. Selective Ignorance can be you friend here.
This forum is for people to express there opinions and knowledge, If you don't like what I have to say then don't reply to my posts unless your a moderator. Selective Ignorance can be you friend here.
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