Star Trek Online and Countdown Graphic Novel Continuities

[Christopher]

The fact I'm talking about, if you go back and read what I said, is simply this: In terms of Star Trek Online and Countdown, Data has returned. That is the fact I brought up six posts back. Nothing more, nothing less. There is no different definition of fact here, Christopher, it's the dictionary definition. If Pocket decided to use Countdown as part of their continuity it would then be a fact for them, but not before the decision to use Countdown (and only if they decided to use the whole thing, but to only use parts of it would be sort of silly if you ask me). I am not saying that they have and it is thus a fact for pocket now. I am saying it is a fact for the COMIC and the GAME.

I hope that helped to clear that up.

No, it just confuses me further. Obviously it's a "fact" within the comic and the game; I see no reason why that even needs to be stated. And I certainly don't see why such a tautological assertion is in any way relevant to the discussion that is the topic of this thread, namely whether the events of Countdown should be binding on the novels. In that context, if one poster refers to an event from the comic as a "fact," it's perfectly reasonable to interpret that as an assertion that the event should be considered binding on the novels, because that's the question under discussion in this thread. "Fact" is not a value-neutral term. Its use implies endorsement of a concept as one that should be believed or embraced.

Obviously, as you said, STO can't be reconciled with Pocket, but Countdown could. If that was to happen, I'd hope that they'd reconcile everything that happened in Countdown with the Pocket continuity. This includes the return of Data. The prospective author(s) has very little to work with. 1) The facts of the film Nemesis 2) the facts of the comic and 3) if they wanted to use the explanation from Path to 2409. The rest would be up to their own imagination. However they decide to do it (if it ever happens) will be fulfilling to me. If they decided not to use Countdown and go in a totally different direction, that's fine with me too.

Okay, I think I have some inkling of what your point was now. However, I disagree with the assumption that the comic's presentation of Data's return needs to be treated as a "fact." After all, we aren't shown Data's resurrection in Countdown. We're shown the end result -- an android calling himself Data serving as captain of the Enterprise -- and we're given some brief dialogue explaining that result in passing. But we have no facts on the specific process that brought about that result, only hearsay. Even if the books did dovetail with Countdown by telling a story that ended up with Captain Data of the Enterprise, the Pocket version of that story wouldn't have to conform strictly to the hearsay explanation given in Countdown -- any more than the books' explanation for the origins of the holoprogram in "These Are the Voyages" had to conform exactly to the episode's implications.

That's the problem with bandying around a word like "fact." It often assumes too much certainty. That's why scientists and scholars prefer speaking of data and evidence instead. It helps remind you of the limits on what you actually know.

On the topic of the ethical question, I still can't agree with you. I can accept his mind as completely blank when he awoke, but every moment after he had to have grown some sort of consciousness. How else could he have functioned? You also didn't respond to my most important point in this matter: Star Trek is at its best when it is dealing with moral issues.

Again, I'm not saying I disagree with you about the moral question you raise. It's a good point and it's one I considered myself. But my specific focus here, as I said, is to discuss the intent of the scripts as they were written. I'm not talking about these as "real" situations, but as stories being shaped with a certain emphasis by their tellers.

 

[David Brennon]

You know what, I think we've been able to come to an agreement here about a few things. As our conversations seem to go, it seems to me that we just think in different ways which leads us to have clashing thoughts... in the beginning. As we explain ourselves, however, we'll either come to find out that we're saying nearly the same thing OR once the other's meaning becomes clear we realize we still don't agree.

Okay, I think I have some inkling of what your point was now. However, I disagree with the assumption that the comic's presentation of Data's return needs to be treated as a "fact." After all, we aren't shown Data's resurrection in Countdown. We're shown the end result -- an android calling himself Data serving as captain of the Enterprise -- and we're given some brief dialogue explaining that result in passing. But we have no facts on the specific process that brought about that result, only hearsay. Even if the books did dovetail with Countdown by telling a story that ended up with Captain Data of the Enterprise, the Pocket version of that story wouldn't have to conform strictly to the hearsay explanation given in Countdown -- any more than the books' explanation for the origins of the holoprogram in "These Are the Voyages" had to conform exactly to the episode's implications.

I can accept this explanation and in fact I can agree with it to a point. It is a different line of thinking from where I was originally coming from, but I'm not inflexible.

The only thing else I have to say about it though is that I personally like the idea of Data returning and I don't see the same issues with it you do (in terms of story rehashing and ethical issues). I wouldn't mind if Pocket decided to have him return in such a manner.

The fact I'm talking about, if you go back and read what I said, is simply this: In terms of Star Trek Online and Countdown, Data has returned. That is the fact I brought up six posts back. Nothing more, nothing less. There is no different definition of fact here, Christopher, it's the dictionary definition. If Pocket decided to use Countdown as part of their continuity it would then be a fact for them, but not before the decision to use Countdown (and only if they decided to use the whole thing, but to only use parts of it would be sort of silly if you ask me). I am not saying that they have and it is thus a fact for pocket now. I am saying it is a fact for the COMIC and the GAME.

I hope that helped to clear that up.

No, it just confuses me further. Obviously it's a "fact" within the comic and the game; I see no reason why that even needs to be stated. And I certainly don't see why such a tautological assertion is in any way relevant to the discussion that is the topic of this thread, namely whether the events of Countdown should be binding on the novels. In that context, if one poster refers to an event from the comic as a "fact," it's perfectly reasonable to interpret that as an assertion that the event should be considered binding on the novels, because that's the question under discussion in this thread. "Fact" is not a value-neutral term. Its use implies endorsement of a concept as one that should be believed or embraced.

I'm really not sure why it confuses you further. Here are the events that led us to here:

Actually it's very different. The Genesis-rejuvenated Spock had the same brain capacity as the original Spock. But B-4's brain is far, far cruder than Data's. It would be like transferring Spock's katra into a chimpanzee's brain. The CPU just isn't advanced enough to run the software.

And as I've said in the past, it always surprises me when people use "Well, it's just like something that's been done before" as an argument in favor of doing something. To me, that's a compelling argument against doing it again.

^ Actually, it isn't any different and Spock makes a note of this in Countdown Part Two. Data may not like the term "resurrection" but the fact remains that result was the same. It is not, as you suggest, like putting Spock's katra into the brain of a chimp considering Data is up and about commanding the Enterprise. You may not agree with the way the story was told but that doesn't change the fact that it happened. Data has returned in the Countdown comic and is the same Data that we all remember.

You may not agree with the way the story was told but that doesn't change the fact that it happened. Data has returned in the Countdown comic and is the same Data that we all remember.

It's not a "fact," because these are all invented stories. And Countdown is not canonical. It's one interpretation of what might have been. There's nothing stopping the books from choosing a different interpretation, from taking B-4's story in a completely different direction.

Lastly, it is a fact. It is a fact in terms of what happened in that story. This topic is talking about that story and Star Trek Online (which, coincidentally, tells us how Data's resurrection happens and how much of a complex procedure it would have been) being incorporated into Pocket's continuity. If they adhered to the Countdown story, then it's be a fact in that storyline and explained somehow. No, there isn't anything stopping someone like you from taking B-4's story somewhere else. I don't think it's likely to happen, but it could happen.

Lastly, it is a fact. It is a fact in terms of what happened in that story. This topic is talking about that story and Star Trek Online (which, coincidentally, tells us how Data's resurrection happens and how much of a complex procedure it would have been) being incorporated into Pocket's continuity. If they adhered to the Countdown story, then it's be a fact in that storyline and explained somehow.

Key word, if. You and I are defining "fact" in two different ways here. Yes, it is a fact that there is a comic book called Countdown that postulates Data's resurrection. But since the comic is non-canonical, that is not a "fact" within the Star Trek universe, only a conjecture. It doesn't have to be a "fact" within the continuity of Pocket Books.

And even if Pocket did conform to Countdown's continuity, I sincerely hope the book in question wouldn't ignore the precedent of Nemesis and treat B-4's transformation into Data 2.0 as something simple and straightforward, because that would be lazy and simplistic. And I sincerely hope it wouldn't be treated as something "just like" Spock's resurrection, because that would be lazy and imitative. It's not so much the possibility of Data's return that I'm objecting to here; though I'd rather not see it happen, I can see the possibility of telling the story in an engaging and challenging way. What I object to more is the assertion that it should be seen as no different from Spock's resurrection. We've already seen that story, so why do it again?

The fact I'm talking about, if you go back and read what I said, is simply this: In terms of Star Trek Online and Countdown, Data has returned. That is the fact I brought up six posts back. Nothing more, nothing less. There is no different definition of fact here, Christopher, it's the dictionary definition. If Pocket decided to use Countdown as part of their continuity it would then be a fact for them, but not before the decision to use Countdown (and only if they decided to use the whole thing, but to only use parts of it would be sort of silly if you ask me). I am not saying that they have and it is thus a fact for pocket now. I am saying it is a fact for the COMIC and the GAME.

The fact I'm talking about, if you go back and read what I said, is simply this: In terms of Star Trek Online and Countdown, Data has returned. That is the fact I brought up six posts back. Nothing more, nothing less. There is no different definition of fact here, Christopher, it's the dictionary definition. If Pocket decided to use Countdown as part of their continuity it would then be a fact for them, but not before the decision to use Countdown (and only if they decided to use the whole thing, but to only use parts of it would be sort of silly if you ask me). I am not saying that they have and it is thus a fact for pocket now. I am saying it is a fact for the COMIC and the GAME.

I hope that helped to clear that up.

No, it just confuses me further. Obviously it's a "fact" within the comic and the game; I see no reason why that even needs to be stated. And I certainly don't see why such a tautological assertion is in any way relevant to the discussion that is the topic of this thread, namely whether the events of Countdown should be binding on the novels. In that context, if one poster refers to an event from the comic as a "fact," it's perfectly reasonable to interpret that as an assertion that the event should be considered binding on the novels, because that's the question under discussion in this thread. "Fact" is not a value-neutral term. Its use implies endorsement of a concept as one that should be believed or embraced.

Okay, now that we have the trail all out at our feet let's try and backtrack and clear up your confusion. Personally, as I look back on the topic, I can see a clear path to why each post was made by both of us.

You brought up your distaste for that particular storyline -- rather colorfully I might add, well done -- this caught my eye, and I stepped into the conversation adding in my opinion. We (naturally) disagreed about the substance of the posts.

Here is where it gets a little dicey.

You didn't like the idea behind Data's return, I did. When you expressed your distaste for it, it read to me as though you were trying to discredit that particular story (It's not the same thing as Spock's resurrection, chimp with a katra yada yada yada). I took issue with that because, for me, we have all the info we need at this point on the page of the comic. Data's back, clearly up and about and Spock is making the comparison himself. At this point in the game it doesn't matter the hows or the whys... it's not Data's story and should be reserved for some other talented writer.

Here is the original mention of fact, just so you can see what I said.

You may not agree with the way the story was told but that doesn't change the fact that it happened. Data has returned in the Countdown comic and is the same Data that we all remember.

Now, take everything that has come after it and put it into the context of this comment, because this is the one that you take issue with the most it seems. You don't like my usage of the word fact either because I'm not using your definition or because I'm being simply stating a given.

Now, you said immediately afterward in response that continued stoking the fires.

It's not a "fact," because these are all invented stories. And Countdown is not canonical. It's one interpretation of what might have been. There's nothing stopping the books from choosing a different interpretation, from taking B-4's story in a completely different direction.

If I'm stating a given why dispute my assertion that it is a fact within the context of the conversation we were having? I thought my meaning was very clear, but obviously it wasn't. The argument continued because we were not understanding one another clearly. It seems to be a circle we fall into.

I hope you can see why I've said the things I've said when you look back on what you've said. If I'm repeating myself, it's only because you're own circular arguments are leading me back to my original statement.

 

[Man of Steel]

However, Pocket is going to be publishing at least one STO-based novel, The Needs of the Many by Michael A. Martin, next year.

And from my understanding, this is the novelization to the game.

 

[STR]

That film made it very clear that B-4 was far too crude to process Data's memories.

Did it really? The line, if I recall, was "The neural pathways aren't nearly as sophisticated." which could mean several things other than 'B-4 is chimpanzee compared to Data.' 1) A baby has less sophisticated neural connections (specifically, fewer of them) than I do, but that doesn't mean it can't develop later. 2) Given that Data has had to rewire himself innumerable times, it is logical to postulate that his brain is adaptive at a basic level, not unlike a human brain. This also takes time, he doesn't immediately come back, so therefore B-4 may well take time to process Data's memories and concepts.

Further evidence comes from the 'ploy' midway through the movie where Data impersonates B-4. The Remans can't tell the difference, just as the Enterprise can't tell the difference physically between Data and Lore.

Finally, Data and Geordi were sure enough of B-4's potential to bother downloading Data into him in the first place.

 

[Mr. Crane]

For what it's worth, I think Countdown should be considered a part of (ugh!) "canon".

Canon isn't a matter of individual opinion. The Trek canon is what's onscreen. Even the people who wrote the story to Countdown (and the script to the new movie) acknowledge that it isn't canonical.

What I figure you mean to say is that the books should choose to remain consistent with the events of Countdown. Okay, I can see some arguments for that; the comic is arguably more prominent and better-known than the books and has close ties to the new movie. If the books chose to disregard it, that might lead to confusion or dissatisfaction among much of the audience -- theoretically, anyway.

But what would it mean for TNG? If the characters took the life paths they followed in Countdown, then by 2387 there'd be no core TNG characters left on the Enterprise but "Data" (and I question whether a B-4 modified to think like Data would actually qualify as Data). I don't see how TNG could continue as an ongoing book series past that point. Unless it pulled a Full Circle and arranged for at least a fair percentage of the old TNG crew to come together once again after Countdown. But while Full Circle/Unworthy came up with a reasonable explanation for that reassembly of the crew, I think it would be contrived to make it happen again with another crew.

Of course, the books are only in 2381 at this point, and there's no reason that upcoming books would need to race ahead. After all, the DS9 post-finale fiction has covered less than a year's worth of story time since it began eight years ago. So the books could continue for quite a long time before having to decide whether to acknowledge or contradict Countdown.

I think some bright spark needs to do a novel adaptation of Countdown...

Why? It's already been told as a comic.

I think you're right, Christopher - I think many fans of the lit will be disappointed if the Trek novels do not adhere to the fates of the TNG characters as established in Countdown.

Spoiler: Spoiler re: destiny

With Picard now having a baby in Destiny, it makes sense that he may decide to step down as Enterprise captain, since the Enterprise-E does not seem to carry families, as the Enterprise-D did. In the series, Picard was always opposed to having children aboard a starship, in harm's way. How will he feel about having his own son aboard a starship?

... and you're also right ... there are a lot of stories that can be told between 2381 ans 2387 with the TNG crew ... look how many they have fit into Kirk's original 5 year mission! (Besides, I like the idea of the characters moving on to independent careers ... the idea that the TOS crew were still largely in their same positions almost three decades later was a bit of a stretch in STVI...) :-)

 

[Christopher]

That film made it very clear that B-4 was far too crude to process Data's memories.

Did it really? The line, if I recall, was "The neural pathways aren't nearly as sophisticated." which could mean several things other than 'B-4 is chimpanzee compared to Data.'

I'm not talking about a single line taken out of context. I'm talking about the whole story. The whole point of B-4 as a character was that he was incapable of change and growth. The Data/B-4 relationship was a dramatic parallel to the Picard/Shinzon relationship, and the thematic point of the parallel was that both Shinzon and B-4 were trapped by their natures, unlike Picard and Data, who had it within them to strive for growth and personal betterment. I mean, seriously, that's the whole message of the film!

Further evidence comes from the 'ploy' midway through the movie where Data impersonates B-4. The Remans can't tell the difference, just as the Enterprise can't tell the difference physically between Data and Lore.

What the hell does that prove? It's not like they did an extensive neurological analysis. They just saw a guy who looked, dressed, and talked like B-4 and assumed it was B-4. Why wouldn't they?

And the fact that a genius can impersonate a mentally disabled child doesn't mean a mentally disabled child can become a genius.

Finally, Data and Geordi were sure enough of B-4's potential to bother downloading Data into him in the first place.

That's not true at all. Here's the dialogue (emphasis added):

DATA: Captain Picard agrees that the B-4 was probably designed with the same self-actualisation parameters as myself. If my memory engrams are successfully integrated into his positronic matrix, he should have all my abilities.
LAFORGE (OC): Yes, but he would have all your memories as well. Do you feel comfortable with that?
DATA: I feel nothing, Geordi. It is my belief that with my memory engrams he will be able to function as a more complete individual.
LAFORGE: An individual more like you, you mean.
DATA: Yes.
LAFORGE: Maybe he's not supposed to be like you, Data. Maybe he's supposed to be exactly the way he is.
DATA: That might be so, but I believe he should have the opportunity to explore his potential.
...
LAFORGE: Data, he's assimilating a lot of programming. Remember, he's a prototype, a lot less sophisticated than you are. We just don't know if his matrix will be able to adapt. We really need to give him some time.

http://www.chakoteya.net/movies/movie10.html

Clearly, they weren't at all "sure" that it would work. Data tried it because he hoped it would work. And it failed completely, aside from B-4 retaining one tiny fragment of Data's memory at the very end of the film. That was the point, dramatically and thematically: that B-4 couldn't live up to Data's hopes, that he couldn't "function as a more complete individual," because it just wasn't in his nature. As Geordi said, maybe B-4 was meant to be as simple as he was.

I think you're right, Christopher - I think many fans of the lit will be disappointed if the Trek novels do not adhere to the fates of the TNG characters as established in Countdown.

Sure, and many other fans will be disappointed if the novels do adhere to Countdown. It should be obvious from the traffic on this BBS that there's nothing that all Trek fans agree on, so any argument based on "You'd make the fans upset if you did X" is illegitimate. Any decision is going to upset some fans and please others.

Also, you're attributing a position to me that I don't actually hold. I only said that I could see what the argument in favor of acknowledging Countdown would be. I didn't say I agreed with it. By disregarding everything else I said and saying "You're right" about the part I was only addressing from a remove, I feel you've misrepresented my position and I don't appreciate that.

Spoiler: Spoiler re: destiny

With Picard now having a baby in Destiny, it makes sense that he may decide to step down as Enterprise captain, since the Enterprise-E does not seem to carry families, as the Enterprise-D did. In the series, Picard was always opposed to having children aboard a starship, in harm's way. How will he feel about having his own son aboard a starship?

First off, there are families on Titan, and I don't think there's any hard-and-fast rule against them on the Enterprise. Second, I think events of recent years have shown Picard that a planet surface is no safer than a starship, and if anything it can be more vulnerable because it's a sitting target. If Picard wants to keep his son safe (and really, I think we're long past the point where that's a spoiler), then staying in command of the Enterprise is probably the best possible way he can do that.

 

[Daddy Todd]

I think many fans of the lit will be disappointed if the Trek novels do not adhere to the fates of the TNG characters as established in Countdown.

And I think that at least as many Treklit fans WILL be disappointed if the Trek novels are forced to conform to the lame continuity established in Countdown. I know I will be.

 

[JD]

Even as someone who enjoyed Countdown as an alternate universe tale (I know it isn't officially an alternate universe, I just think of it that way), I don't think I'd want the novels to use it's version of the TNG character's futures.

 

[The Super Brando]

And I think that at least as many Treklit fans WILL be disappointed if the Trek novels are forced to conform to the lame continuity established in Countdown. I know I will be.

Yeah, I really enjoy the continuity established in the pocket books universe, and how they've continued the stories of the different series, but I'm not sure I'd like it if they went the direction of the Countdown GN. Everyone separates, no one's together anymore.

I also don't think I'd like it if they went the way of STO. One of the biggest reasons is that DS9 went a long way to show that because of Worf and Martok the Klingon Empire was moving to regain their honor, and move away from being mindless barbarians. But then STO basically makes them mindless barbarians again, which might be great for a gameplay, but not for pure story.

 

[Rush Limborg]

^Not neccessarily. Worf's attack on the Narada was pretty clever.

I think if a novelization would come out, the "true honor" aspect would be worked in quite nicely.

Case in point:

Spoiler: Countdown

When Nero tries to tempt Worf with "the Federation is using you", we could have Worf reflecting on such things--as he looks for him.

Besides--who wouldn't want to see Worf as a GENERAL under Martok?

 

[The Super Brando]

^Not neccessarily. Worf's attack on the Narada was pretty clever.

I think if a novelization would come out, the "true honor" aspect would be worked in quite nicely.

Case in point:

Spoiler: Countdown

When Nero tries to tempt Worf with "the Federation is using you", we could have Worf reflecting on such things--as he looks for him.

Regarding the Klingons, I was referring more to Star Trek Online. Countdown's Kingons were fine and dandy, but STO has them invading and conquering the Romulans, Gorn, and even parts of the Federation.

Martok is now turning on his Federation allies from the Dominion War? They're back to being land-grabbing brutes? Invading the Romulans after they've faced a massively tragic disaster, is that honorable combat?

I don't know, STO isn't out yet, so maybe they make the story good. I'm just not so sure I want the Pocket Books universe going in that direction.

 

[Caretaker]

Martok is now turning on his Federation allies from the Dominion War? They're back to being land-grabbing brutes? Invading the Romulans after they've faced a massively tragic disaster, is that honorable combat?

Well, truth be told, Cryptic's Path to 2409 information only goes to 2392 so far - 16 years left for them to cover. In it, they make it quite clear there are Klingons ready to deal with Martok and re-establish the Empire's "glory." I wouldn't be surprised if (pure speculation, but in case I'm right...

Spoiler: Countdown

Martok meets an unfortunate end and a new chancellor is put into place

). Of course, that would be par for the course for the Klingons.

 

[The Super Brando]

I wouldn't be surprised if (pure speculation, but in case I'm right...

Spoiler: Countdown

Martok meets an unfortunate end and a new chancellor is put into place

). Of course, that would be par for the course for the Klingons.

Yeah, it used to be par for the course for the Klingons, but DS9 left us believing that because of Martok and Worf the Klingon Empire was going to turn into warriors that actually act with honor. You know, like Worf.

I just thought it would be very cool to see them as honorable and mighty warriors.

As it was before, and is in STO again, the Klingons are just savage barbarians acting like violent brutes with deceit and without honor. They're more like Duras.

 

[langdonboom]

As a huge fan of the Pocket Books' continuity and not that big a fan of the new Star Trek film, I would actually enjoy seeing the Countdown events come to play in the Pocket Books universe.

To my mind, we can always have more novels set in the 'past' come out around the E or D crews for those kinds of adventures, but I for one would love to see General Worf and Captain Data of the Enterprise.

As time goes on, it will be less and less 'realistic' to keep Picard a Captain (though not for a few years at least!) and I could totally see him on adventures as a man-of-action Ambassador, and we've already got Riker and his crew in separate adventures, so I would enjoy seeing books that tell the tales of the 'old crew' but 'on their own'.

As for Data returning, I vote yes. As a great writer once reminded me, its not like these are real events happening and being reported. However the writers and publishers want it to go it can go -- and in this case, I would not see a huge audience objection to Federation Science finding a way to restore Data using B-4's body.

My feeling is, any 'convenience' of story telling device that might have to be employed to get him back is well worth having back all the wonderful storytelling possibilities that the android-officer allows. I would have loved to see Data's actions during Destiny, or even on Tezwa, and though I would have to agree that his return would be a bit of a mulligan, I think its worth it rather than staying 'totally realistic' and missing out on the pleasures of reading the adventures of Data.

The only thing I wouldn't love but could accept would be the destruction of Romulus. I think that, along with Vulcan, was more a product of Orici/Kurtzman/Abrams' slash-and-burn desire to set their new stories apart and declare "nothing is sacred" than a great story development. But that is just my first reaction, I'm open to a further expounding of the post-Countdown next-gen era.

 

[Sci]

Besides--who wouldn't want to see Worf as a GENERAL under Martok?

Me.

Worf is a Federate, through and through. He may try to find a way to serve both the Federation and the Klingon Empire, but if push comes to shove, he's a Federate first, and he's proven that time and again.

 

[Christopher]

^More importantly, Worf is an individual, and his experiences on DS9, as an ambassador, and as first officer of the Enterprise have allowed him to grow beyond the stereotype of a Klingon and become his own man. He shouldn't be defined solely by his race, plugged into a role in the Klingon military just because he has bumps on his head. He should be free to follow his own independent path.

 

[Rush Limborg]

But surely, like Martok before him, Worf would see the new rank as an opportunity.

The Klingon people would be more willing to follow a Klingon General to accept Martok's reforms than a Federation Ambassador/Starfleet Officer who just happens to be a Klingon.

He would accept the rank because of this, and his desire to change the Empire for the better.

He was not suited for the life of a diplomat--but he IS suited for command....

 

[Nerys Myk]

I dunno, his background as a Starfleet officer would still "taint" him, no matter what uniform he wears.

 

[Sci]

But surely, like Martok before him, Worf would see the new rank as an opportunity.

The Klingon people would be more willing to follow a Klingon General to accept Martok's reforms than a Federation Ambassador/Starfleet Officer who just happens to be a Klingon.

He would accept the rank because of this, and his desire to change the Empire for the better.

He was not suited for the life of a diplomat--but he IS suited for command....

First off, I've never agreed with the idea that Worf isn't suited for the life of a diplomat. In my view, having him end up as the Federation Ambassador to the Klingon Empire was the perfect place for him, the perfect culmination of seven seasons of development on TNG and another four seasons of development on DS9. I think it was a profound mistake on NEM's part to move Worf back to the Enterprise.

Having said that, even if we accept the idea that Worf is not suited for the life of a diplomat, I just don't buy the idea that he'd join the Klingon Defense Force in the name of encouraging Chancellor Martok's reforms. Simply put, the Klingons who are going to be skeptical of Martok's reforms are not going to be impressed by a Klingon who's spent most of his life in the Federation suddenly returning to take a flag officer position in the KDF. To the minds of Klingons like that, Worf has already been "corrupted" -- he was raised by wolves to their minds. (Or, well, these being Klingons, "raised by sheep" might be the better metaphor.)

To most of these Klingons, Worf is already the Federation officer whose actions led to the installation of Gowron, one of the most corrupt chancellors in history, and who then put Martok in the Chancellor's office. These xenophobes are always going to assume that Worf is out to dominate the Empire for the Federation and that Martok is his puppet, and they'd think that whether his office is inside the Federation Embassy or inside Defense Force Headquarters.

And finally -- Worf's made a commitment to Starfleet. That's just the biggest problem with that idea. He's left the life of a diplomat and made a career commitment to Starfleet, and a larger commitment to serving the Federation and his shipmates aboard the Enterprise. He wouldn't leave that for anything.

 

[Christopher]

Having said that, even if we accept the idea that Worf is not suited for the life of a diplomat, I just don't buy the idea that he'd join the Klingon Defense Force in the name of encouraging Chancellor Martok's reforms. Simply put, the Klingons who are going to be skeptical of Martok's reforms are not going to be impressed by a Klingon who's spent most of his life in the Federation suddenly returning to take a flag officer position in the KDF. To the minds of Klingons like that, Worf has already been "corrupted" -- he was raised by wolves to their minds. (Or, well, these being Klingons, "raised by sheep" might be the better metaphor.)

Besides, the idea doesn't make much sense. If Worf wanted to encourage Martok's reforms of Klingon civilization as a whole, what good could he do as the commander of a fleet way out in space? If he wanted to influence policy, the way to do it would be to join the High Council.