Jack Bauer.
Heroes: "The Fifth Stage" 11/30/09 - Grading & Discussion
- Thread starter Aragorn
- Start date
Jack Bauer.
The writers sure are acting like it. There's no way the characters could know. Nobody has a Soul Meter Reader. And the notion that Matt has godlike powers to move people's souls around is pretty wacky.
The right way to do this story is for everyone to decide that Nathan's soul is wherever they want it to be. Matt doesn't want to think he moved Nathan's soul because he wants Sylar dead for the protection of his own family, and prefers to think of Nathan as being an unreal entity with no moral value of his own. Peter can't stand the idea that Nathan is dead and clings to the pathetic notion that Sylar can be transformed into Nathan.
You could have some fun stuff with Matt sensibly trying to kill Sylar for good (with mind-control powers, and an assist from Rene, Matt could do it) and Peter fighting him every step of the way. Neither of them really can know the truth so they invent the truth they want.
The writers should stay neutral on the issue. It doesn't really matter where Nathan's soul is in "actual fact." What matters is having characters react to the situation in character, and in ways that make for interesting drama. They definitely should not be putting words in the characters' mouths that imply they know things they cannot know.
Peter is actually Claire's uncle, but if the writers are at all on the ball, Peter should be visiting the carnival soon. He can't just continue to let Claire believe Nathan is alive. She has the right to know the truth. And with the shattered mental state Peter will be in, he just may decide to hide out in the carnival for a while.
Trouble is, Sylar knows about the carnival. And he did swear to hunt down everyone who had anything remotely to do with the brainwashing/soul swapping incident.
Hmmm. Since the writers want us to think Matt has the godlike power to push Nathan's soul into Sylar's body, why can't Matt push Nathan's soul back into his original body! Or maybe that's too ridiculous even for this show?
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That's it. I'm done with this show. It was so gut-wrenchingly bad I had to 30s skip past all scenes except Peter/Nathan scenes. And even those were lacking.
Bye bye, season pass.
Bye bye, season pass.
When Claire learns the truth about Nathan, she'll finally have a legitimate reason not to want to talk to her father again.
A couple things i think people are missing...
While Matt made Sylar think he was Nathan, y'all are forgetting that Sylar's body has been using the memory absoprtion power to "build" Nathan's soul. His office is filled with stuff to "help him remember", as well as Angela providing things as well.
While absorbing a memory here and there won't mess with your mind too much (i.e. more like detetctive work), touching a lot of things form the same person i would think can make you feel like you rare that person. And if those memories include feelings of love & loyalty for family, it can almost transform you into that person.
As to Peter killing Sylar/Nathan... If The Haitian was around, then Peter would have to kill Sylar the old fashioned way...and somehow not get caught. It would be hard to use a power that 1) The Haitian wouldn't negate (it seems the power dampening/"forgetting") seems to be due to proximity, and he can't control who it affects 2) or where the Haitian wouldn't get killed in the process due to proximity to Sylar (like a fireball or something)
i'll have to look again, but the last Peter/Nathan scene...Peter wasn't trying to kill "Nathan"...he really thought Sylar had been overwhelmed, and they were just talking. Nathan made this surprise jump. The only power Peter had was the power dampening. If he jumped with Nathan, MAYBE it would've have worked against Sylar. But maybe not. Peter would have been dead, and Sylar might have had just enough seconds to heal from death. So that would have been a futile sacrifice as well. (And as sacrificial as Peter is, unless he had really planned/expected it, i don't think his first instinct is to sacrifice his life)
As much as we joke about Peter's lack of thinking ability...in this case, had i been in the same scenario, i think i would have been just as overwhelmed by emotion and circumstance to not make a "good" decision.
While Matt made Sylar think he was Nathan, y'all are forgetting that Sylar's body has been using the memory absoprtion power to "build" Nathan's soul. His office is filled with stuff to "help him remember", as well as Angela providing things as well.
While absorbing a memory here and there won't mess with your mind too much (i.e. more like detetctive work), touching a lot of things form the same person i would think can make you feel like you rare that person. And if those memories include feelings of love & loyalty for family, it can almost transform you into that person.
As to Peter killing Sylar/Nathan... If The Haitian was around, then Peter would have to kill Sylar the old fashioned way...and somehow not get caught. It would be hard to use a power that 1) The Haitian wouldn't negate (it seems the power dampening/"forgetting") seems to be due to proximity, and he can't control who it affects 2) or where the Haitian wouldn't get killed in the process due to proximity to Sylar (like a fireball or something)
i'll have to look again, but the last Peter/Nathan scene...Peter wasn't trying to kill "Nathan"...he really thought Sylar had been overwhelmed, and they were just talking. Nathan made this surprise jump. The only power Peter had was the power dampening. If he jumped with Nathan, MAYBE it would've have worked against Sylar. But maybe not. Peter would have been dead, and Sylar might have had just enough seconds to heal from death. So that would have been a futile sacrifice as well. (And as sacrificial as Peter is, unless he had really planned/expected it, i don't think his first instinct is to sacrifice his life)
As much as we joke about Peter's lack of thinking ability...in this case, had i been in the same scenario, i think i would have been just as overwhelmed by emotion and circumstance to not make a "good" decision.
Well, clearly he has a thing about tatooed people and people with a plan!
On a sidenote...i would love to see Robert Knepper as Abraham Lincoln...obviously, he's too short to play the "real" Lincoln, but he'd be perfect for a Night at the Museum 3! (Easy to justify the height)
I don't think anyone is complaining Peter didn't kill Nathan the problem was if Nathan wanted to die then Nathan should have guaranteed that goal as well as eliminating the dangerous Sylar who just threatened his mom and brother by killing the body of Sylar. So instead of jumping off the building Nathan should have killed himself near Peter so the dampening ability would prevent Sylar's body from healing.
As it stands now Nathan can still return inside Sylar and Sylar can still go on killing--the only thing preventing that is writer fiat.
No it would have worked. We saw last season Future Peter stay dead when he was killed and the Future Haitian was present. The only way it would possibly fail is if Peter foolishly traded off that ability by snatching one of Sylar's on the way down.
I think the "is that Nathan's soul in Sylar?" discussions are really interesting to read on forums. Its a pity that the writers didnt really bother to explore it, but not surprising.
btw it was suggested on another forum that the scene with Nathan taking a slow dive off the ledge was meant to be symbolic. The guy whose power was flying dies by falling.
btw it was suggested on another forum that the scene with Nathan taking a slow dive off the ledge was meant to be symbolic. The guy whose power was flying dies by falling.
What?!?
You can't "build" a soul. Either it exists or it doesn't. Only God can "make" a soul, which mortals can neither create nor destroy.The fact that the original explanation for Nathan's self was memories absorbed from objects argues against the notion that Sylar ever had any authentic aspect of Nathan in his noggin. It was a sham, but now it's real? WTF?
Have Rene nerf Sylar's powers and then Peter just shoots him in the head. If both Rene and Peter managed to surprise Sylar, I don't see what would be so hard about doing that. Or Peter gloms Rene's powers and just does the whole job himself. It would crack me up if that's how they finally kill Sylar in the end.
wow that guy really can replicate himself, he was on Lie to Me the same night
I have been thinking about that for a while after you wrote it. I never made that connection because Nathan already died, and we just saw his dead frozen body at the hospital. If the writers had to get Nathan off the show, I wish they would have ended the character like this instead of playing with Nathan/Sylar combo. But then again, Heroes never did handle death too well...
Wow. I completely forgot that episode - 1920s Terminator was amazing. It was the episode with Cameron's secret night life wasn't it?
What would happen if you put a Terminator on Heroes? Who would do something really stupid to it first?
What would happen if you put a Terminator on Heroes? Who would do something really stupid to it first?
"I must terminate you."
"You won't terminate me -- I'm your mother."
"I've lost the ability to terminate humans. I don't know what to do with my life."
"Have you ever considered joining the circus?"
"Stop smothering me! I'm a terminator! I want to be free to express myself!"
The Terminator would self-destruct due to the overwhelming illogic of the script.
You're right, and that fact didn't even register with me. I've seen him in a lot of stuff over the last year or so.