• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Rap Music Should Be Included In Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame

But it explains a lot. As a rock fan I've found some of the most closed minded music fans are those who listen to hard rock/heavy metal and classical music fans.

Not that all who listen to these genres are closed minded just that I encounter it in them more than in any others.
Probably because they get so much shit from self-righteous hipsters about their musical tastes. I'm a huge metal fan, but I listen to a wide variety of other genres. Even so, it irks me when people get all condescending about my metalness. It makes me want to say "Fuck everything but metal" as a knee-jerk reaction.:lol:

I've always thought rockers should stick together regardless of the subgenres we prefer. Maybe we should all get together and beat up some hipsters. :rommie:
 
Frankly, I can't believe it's 2009 and people are still debating whether or not rap and hip hop are valid forms of musical self expression. If this were 1989, I could maybe understand it, but rap has only been influential in the world of pop music for what, thirty years now?

People are just as bigoted towards Afro-Americans as they used to be years ago, and that extends to music, too.

Simply not true. Do you think a black man could have been elected president if bigotry were as strong as it has been in the past?
 
Just because we have a black president doesn't mean that a lot of people don't still carry deep seated bigotry against blacks. Electing Barrack Obama didn't fix any of the racial divides present in America.
 
why does it matter? a very large chunk of the musicians already in there could hardly be considered "rock" artists anyway.

"Rock and Roll" died a very bloody undeserved death decades ago anyway with the unmerciless birth of pop...
 
None of this changes the fact that rap isn't real music.

What is "real"?
This is a cut off an album by a pretty famous group of musicians is it "music"?

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwQiQLqAKOA&feature=related[/yt]
dig those samples

how about this
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaXnqw-Zv0Y[/yt]
 
I still haven't seen any of those who are against anything other than rock(according to their limited standard) be in the Rock and Roll hall of fame give me a satisfactory all encompassing definition of what Rock and Roll was or is.
 
I would say that Rock and Roll is a fusion of Jazz, Country & Western and Blues, with a particular leaning towards more upbeat tempos, designed to appeal to teenagers, and it was prevalent in the late 40s and throughout the 50s. And Van Halen ain't it.
 
Probably because they get so much shit from self-righteous hipsters about their musical tastes. I'm a huge metal fan, but I listen to a wide variety of other genres. Even so, it irks me when people get all condescending about my metalness. It makes me want to say "Fuck everything but metal" as a knee-jerk reaction.:lol:

Are you familiar with the hubbub over "hipster metal"?
 
designed to appeal to teenagers,
A key statement. Back in the 50s when the term, rock and roll, and the music were born, it was a catch all meant as a reference to music kids liked. That music was decidedly different from anything the old folks of the time were listening to.

Back then, rock and roll included everything from Elvis to Sam Cooke, and as the years went by, Motown to Phil Specter to the Beach Boys. It wasn't until the 70's, I believe, that music began to be categorized by effete critics(IMO) and separated by which instruments were mixed out front.

So people who were born in the 70's and 80's (in particular) tend to think think that the term rock and roll was always a reference to loud guitar based music, only. Simply not true.

The fact that musical styles used by artists like Madonna are in the Hall is really a throw back to what rock and roll was originally; "scary" (to adults) music which appealed to kids. BTW, personally, I don't think Madonna should be in the Hall, not because of her musical style, that's not the problem -- I just don't think she is important enough an artist strictly from a musical standpoint.

Rap fits neatly into that "category", whether you like the music or not, and makes some artists performing this music ideal consideration for induction.
 
It wasn't until the 70's, I believe, that music began to be categorized by effete critics(IMO) and separated by which instruments were mixed out front.

I'm not sure what the word effete is doing there -- Lester Bangs shaped a lot of people's ideas about rock and roll in the 1970s, and effete doesn't describe him at all -- but a lot of things I've read blame that split on the segmentation of the North American radio market into different formats in the late '60s and early '70s, particularly as a result of the growth of FM rock stations.
 
I would say that Rock and Roll is a fusion of Jazz, Country & Western and Blues, with a particular leaning towards more upbeat tempos, designed to appeal to teenagers, and it was prevalent in the late 40s and throughout the 50s. And Van Halen ain't it.
And a lot of it was dance music. As seen on American Bandstand. Thats something that seems to have gotten lost with the tranformation into "Rock" and later Heavy Metal. You can bang your head and pump your fist but you cant dance to a lot of that stuff. The dance part went off and became Soul, Funk and Disco. At least thats my take. But I'm no Stanley J. Krammrhead III, Jr.
 
It wasn't until the 70's, I believe, that music began to be categorized by effete critics(IMO) and separated by which instruments were mixed out front.

I'm not sure what the word effete is doing there -- Lester Bangs shaped a lot of people's ideas about rock and roll in the 1970s, and effete doesn't describe him at all -- but a lot of things I've read blame that split on the segmentation of the North American radio market into different formats in the late '60s and early '70s, particularly as a result of the growth of FM rock stations.
LOL! Writers like Lester Bangs are exactly the type I'm referring to. Guys like Dave Marsh over at Rolling Stone were also part of the "re-segregation" of pop music. Those guys took snobbery in rock music to new heights.

They began to tell us which bands were rock and which weren't. They, and others, became a major influence in pop music to the point that now many people, especially the younger folks, really think that "rock and roll" refers to only guitar based songs sung by self contained bands.

But I'll agree, what happened in radio was also part of the problem of categorizing pop music. But I'm not so sure that the radio stations weren't just reacting to the public demands which were, (and usually are); "I like one type of music, play anything else and I'm outta here". Just look at the lack of diversity on the lists of artists people like in this very thread.
 
But it explains a lot. As a rock fan I've found some of the most closed minded music fans are those who listen to hard rock/heavy metal and classical music fans.

If I was one of those people I wouldn't be listening to so called "nu metal" and would swear off anything that didn't use real instruments, but I like a lot of that so, no, that theory doesn't work out. :lol: Besides, it's the extremists of the classic rock fans, not metal, that are the most belligerent people I've met. I can find something to listen to in all genres of music, classical symphony works, show-tunes, jazz, swing, dance, pop, rap, country, techno and trance, choral pieces,etc. My favorite is just hard rock and metal. I mean if you see some type of problem with me having figured out what I like most and, god forbid.....having a preference, let me know, I shall then show you your sign.
 
I just made an assumption due to your attitude and general musical preference. No need to get your panties in a bunch.
 
Well, all I do is simply suggest that somebody make a rap music hall of fame to honor rap artists (page 6) instead of putting them in the rock and roll one because I don't think rap qualifies as rock (and instead is it's own genre) and I get lambasted by numerous people trying to pick apart my posts and put words in my mouth and make me seem like I'm somehow against rap or being closed minded for it. Wouldn't it kind of annoy you a bit too? Granted I probabally could have phrased it better, but felt no need to be unnecessarily diplomatic on an issue with such an easy fix.
 
Last edited:
It wasn't until the 70's, I believe, that music began to be categorized by effete critics(IMO) and separated by which instruments were mixed out front.

I'm not sure what the word effete is doing there -- Lester Bangs shaped a lot of people's ideas about rock and roll in the 1970s, and effete doesn't describe him at all --
LOL! Writers like Lester Bangs are exactly the type I'm referring to. Guys like Dave Marsh over at Rolling Stone were also part of the "re-segregation" of pop music. Those guys took snobbery in rock music to new heights.

Oh. Okay, maybe you know a definition of "effete" with which I'm not familiar, because I still don't see why you used that particular word. None of the main meanings -- decadent, weak, or effeminate -- seems to fit.

Dave Marsh (one of the people who nominates acts for inclusion in the Hall of Fame, longtime publisher of Rock and Rap Confidential) in 1983:
BEAT IT, DON'T JOIN IT....We were disturbed to see the Police, Pat Benatar, and David Bowie doing commercials for MTV, so we called the management of the bands to ask why these performers would urge people to watch a channel that systematically excludes black music. A representative of I.R.S., which manages the Police, told us that "all rock & roll is based on black music" yet would offer no explanation for Sting & Co.'s actions. Pat Benatar's publicist sure had one. "Pat loves MTV," she told us. "And all this business about MTV and black music is getting redundant. It's our business and we should stick together and emphasize the positive aspects of MTV." She went on to say that when blacks make rock & roll videos with heavy guitar, such as Michael Jackson's "Beat It," they get played on MTV. When we asked where the heavy guitar is in the music of Duran Duran and Culture Club, she replied, "Oh, that's different. There it's the different kind of beat." When asked to define rock & roll, Pat's flack responded, "Oh, you can't just put things into different little boxes." We quite agree and so were left puzzled by her assertion that "Diana Ross belongs on the black channel." On the other hand, Bowie representative Joe Dera urged us to view it as more of an industry-wide problem rather than one solely of MTV. He related how Bowie tongue-tied VJ Mark Goodman during a January interview when he asked him on the air why they didn't play more black music. We concur that MTV is only a symptom of the format disease presently afflicting music, but we must disagree with David Bowie's assessment that "Overall, MTV is a positive force." We urge him to consider withholding videos and interviews until the channel opens up.
See also Lester Bangs's "The White Noise Supremacists." It's mainly about racism in the late '70s NY scene and Bangs recognizing his own occasional dumb racist moments, but it's also about Bangs thinking it's a good idea to listen to Otis Redding at a party with a bunch of new wave hipsters. And why not?

I don't like much of Marsh's writing or taste and I think Lester was wrong occasionally, too, but their kind of snobbery wasn't about the dividing lines between genres, it was about what they considered good.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top