Rise of Childhood Obesity

[John Picard]

Say what? I grew up on the border of Illinois/Wisconsin. You couldn't swing a dead cat without hitting a produce stand of any kind. Here, in Oklahoma, the stores sell cut down corncobs in a package of 4 for an outrageous price of $3; whereas "in the day" we'd buy an entire bushel for $6 that would last at least 3 weeks.

I'm fairly certain this is dependent on where you live. Illinois is a large state, and the midwest is even larger. I could string together many dead cats to swing around and I would not be hitting any produce stands.

Yes, that's right. Now you're picturing me swinging around a chain of dead cats. Deal with it.

Really? It's a large state? Let me guess -- you're in the Chicago area, where the attitude is that there's "Chicago" and then there's "whatever else is outside of the city".

The point I was trying to make is that there's a lot of produce grown in the Midwest. I find it surprising it's trucked in from out of State.

 

[Holdfast]

What's going on here?

People will mention lots of socioeconomic & cultural variables, but really it boils down to one thing: time.

It takes time to educate yourself about healthy eating.
It takes time to educate your children about them.
It takes time to train your children to eat healthily.
It takes time to do exercise and encourage/force your children to exercise.
It takes time to make them lunch rather than give them money to buy it themselves.
It takes time to compare prices in a shop and pick the cheapest, while still buying healthily.
It takes time to cook at home.

I could go on, but the basic point is obvious. People don't want to spend the necessary time to eat healthily or ensure their children eat healthily.

It's laziness, really, because all the information is easily and widely accessible for virtually no cost and there's no-one in the country who doesn't know on an intuitive level that fast-food is probably more unhealthy than a carrot and it might be worth learning more about the differences.

It's an open question why people don't want to spend the time on this, but my thought is simply that there are easier, less time consuming alternatives, and people, like rivers, will naturally end up on the path of least resistance.

I'm surprised it took this many posts to get to the "fatties are lazy" argument.

Tell me which of my statements above isn't true and I'll retract it. By the way, I should emphasise that I don't view laziness as a negative trait or a moral failure at all, which sounds like your own thoughts on laziness. I view laziness as an essentially very valuable human trait which is probably why it exists - it protects us from expending effort on unnecessary or unprofitable things. I'm one of the most lazy people you could know. Laziness re: our eating habits is entirely understandable and for much of our existence on this planet would be no bad thing at all, or even a profound help. It's only really been a negative for the majority of the population for the past 25-50 or so years, and even then only in the richer parts of the world.

EDIT to expand on that point:

What I'm saying is actually not much more that basic economics really - figure out how the total cost, including the opportunity cost in terms of time and of your labour cost, of buying a Big Mac meal compared to cooking a healthy meal at home. The Big Mac meal will come out as cheaper overall every time. People will always choose the cheaper option, all else being equal. People are natural economists, intuitively calculating the option of least cost (for fun, cf Ricardian Equivalence).

The only counterbalance is when you factor in the opportunity cost of the impact on your lifespan/later-life morbidity. It takes a lot of focus & willpower to actively include such a nebulous cost into your equation, so people tend to discount it. That's a form of laziness. It's also why people continue to smoke and why they drink to excess and a million other ways they harm themselves in the long term. As I said, for most people, for most of our existence, that was quite the correct way to weigh up the odds, since they were going to die of war, pneumonia, plague or whatever before anything else.

On a more philosophical note, it may STILL be the correct way to weigh it up; why is a longer lifespan or a thinner figure necessarily better than having another bag of crisps or chocolate bar now. Each individual chocolate bar has a negligible effect on the long-term impact, and you may feel the chocolate bar is more worthwhile than an extra 10s of life, or whatever dodgy voodoo mathematics/statistics you do to work out the impact. It all depends on your perspective, I'd suggest. This position assumes a great deal of personal insight into the matter. Acquiring personal insight is also a matter where the amount of effort you put into it often correlates with success.

 

[Bluesteel]

4 words. Portion control and stupid ideas. It's not about how healthy you eat. It's about how much you eat. I hate the idea of "naturally skinny" or "fast metabolism". The only difference between people who eat junk food and are slim and those who are fat is that the slim ones eat the junk food. They're not likely to go home and stuff their face. It's so very easy for people to forget how much they eat and then come up with a stupid idea like fast metabolism to explain their problems. Especially when you consider the fact that gaining fat is very hard and it doesn't happen suddenly.

 

[Kestra]

Really? It's a large state? Let me guess -- you're in the Chicago area, where the attitude is that there's "Chicago" and then there's "whatever else is outside of the city".

The point I was trying to make is that there's a lot of produce grown in the Midwest. I find it surprising it's trucked in from out of State.

Please don't roll your eyes at me. I really, really don't like it.

I live quite a ways outside of Chicago, actually. Not Southern Illinois, but not really a suburb of Chicago either.

 

[The Grim Ghost]

How can anything be done about it? We can't (or we shouldn't) force people to eat healthy foods or to exercise.

All of the information is already out there. You don't need to be educated about it, unless you are a moron. It is a simple equation. Don't constantly eat junk food and get some exercise at least every other day.

If people are too lazy and stupid to do these two simple things or to teach them to their children, maybe they deserve to be miserable and fat.

 

[Amaris]

High
Fructose
Corn
Syrup

It is not the entire problem, but it is a huge part of it.

Absolutely.


J.

 

[Tribbles]

I don't eat very healthy, but I eat small portions of everything. I stop eating when I'm full. Admittedly, I've always had a fast metabolism and I'm just built small in general, but I think overeating is the main problem for many people (not all). The portions served in restaurants astounds me. I always wish I could order from the kids' menu because I can barely finish half of any meal that I order.

Like I said, I love junk food, but my aunt, for example, eats junk food or any kind of food in large amounts (she has a weight problem). Maybe I'm completely off, but I tend to be in the camp that thinks moderation is the key for people who don't have a condition otherwise. (I do realize that some people have health problems that contribute to obesity, and some people are simply more prone to gain weight. I am definitely not trying to belittle anyone that does have a health condition.)

As far as childhood influences, my mom always restricted what snacks we could have. If my brother or I went into the cabinet to get our own little snack cake or chips, we got in trouble. Our portions were controlled until we were old enough to be responsible about it. I think that helped me to be less inclined to overindulge. She also made us go outside and play almost everyday that the weather was nice... sitting around watching TV all day wasn't allowed. My brother and I are both slim to average sizes and have been for the most part.

I will admit that at various points in our lives, we've been taken to doctors because our parents worried we were too thin, but I think we're both at healthy weights now. Our dad and his brother were extremely thin and lanky as teens, so our weight may be genetic and nothing to do with my mom's efforts. I like to think she taught us healthy moderation habits, though.

 

[Arrqh]

High
Fructose
Corn
Syrup

It is not the entire problem, but it is a huge part of it.

To be honest, I've never been fully convinced that HFCS is the source of the problem.

Don't get me wrong here... the problem is an over-consumption of calories. But if sucrose was cheaper and was used in everything instead of HFCS, we'd still be pouring it on... and I don't believe that the overall calorie consumption would go down significantly. From what I recall, the combined consumption of HFCS + sucrose in the US is still higher then the consumption of sucrose in countries that don't use HFCS to any significant degree.

So really, I think the problem is a general over application of sweeteners. HFCS consumption is IMO more a symptom of that then a cause.

 

[Amaris]

High
Fructose
Corn
Syrup

It is not the entire problem, but it is a huge part of it.

To be honest, I've never been fully convinced that HFCS is the source of the problem.

Don't get me wrong here... the problem is an over-consumption of calories. But if sucrose was cheaper and was used in everything instead of HFCS, we'd still be pouring it on... and I don't believe that the overall calorie consumption would go down significantly. From what I recall, the combined consumption of HFCS + sucrose in the US is still higher then the consumption of sucrose in countries that don't use HFCS to any significant degree.

So really, I think the problem is a general over application of sweeteners. HFCS consumption is IMO more a symptom of that then a cause.

I'm more annoyed by the fact that the American Diabetes Association allows their approved beverages contain HFCS. Yeah, they say it doesn't get absorbed by the body, but I don't believe that much goes through your system unaffected.

J.

 

[T'Girl]

Type one diabetes runs in my father's side of the family, growing up we all basically followed his diet. TRY getting fat on a diabetic diet.

 

[Bluesteel]

I don't eat very healthy, but I eat small portions of everything. I stop eating when I'm full. Admittedly, I've always had a fast metabolism and I'm just built small in general, but I think overeating is the main problem for many people (not all). The portions served in restaurants astounds me. I always wish I could order from the kids' menu because I can barely finish half of any meal that I order.

Like I said, I love junk food, but my aunt, for example, eats junk food or any kind of food in large amounts (she has a weight problem). Maybe I'm completely off, but I tend to be in the camp that thinks moderation is the key for people who don't have a condition otherwise. (I do realize that some people have health problems that contribute to obesity, and some people are simply more prone to gain weight. I am definitely not trying to belittle anyone that does have a health condition.)

As far as childhood influences, my mom always restricted what snacks we could have. If my brother or I went into the cabinet to get our own little snack cake or chips, we got in trouble. Our portions were controlled until we were old enough to be responsible about it. I think that helped me to be less inclined to overindulge. She also made us go outside and play almost everyday that the weather was nice... sitting around watching TV all day wasn't allowed. My brother and I are both slim to average sizes and have been for the most part.

I will admit that at various points in our lives, we've been taken to doctors because our parents worried we were too thin, but I think we're both at healthy weights now. Our dad and his brother were extremely thin and lanky as teens, so our weight may be genetic and nothing to do with my mom's efforts. I like to think she taught us healthy moderation habits, though.

lol this is what I was just talking about. You don't have a fast metabolism. If you did then people would probably notice there was something up with you very quickly. Your small because you know how to control what you eat. You eat sensibly even Junk food.

The people who have "fast" metabolism are overweight people. Need to eat more food to gain weight then someone like you yet they consistently eat more then they need to.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

High
Fructose
Corn
Syrup

It is not the entire problem, but it is a huge part of it.

To be honest, I've never been fully convinced that HFCS is the source of the problem.

Don't get me wrong here... the problem is an over-consumption of calories. But if sucrose was cheaper and was used in everything instead of HFCS, we'd still be pouring it on... and I don't believe that the overall calorie consumption would go down significantly. From what I recall, the combined consumption of HFCS + sucrose in the US is still higher then the consumption of sucrose in countries that don't use HFCS to any significant degree.

So really, I think the problem is a general over application of sweeteners. HFCS consumption is IMO more a symptom of that then a cause.

You're right, way too many things have sugar in them--and just about everything has more sugar in it than it should.

The problem with HFCS in particular is that it doesn't satisfy hunger--rather, it makes you even hungrier. So, you eat more... and are still hungry. It screws up the natural signals that tell you when you've had enough.

It is used so prevalently because it is cheap. It is cheap because it is heavily subsidized. Corn farmers are always fighting to keep beet and sugar cane farmers from getting subsidies, because it would make those more attractive.

So, yeah, there should be less sugar in just about everything. And less salt, for that matter. But sugar is the main culprit here.

My kids' sugar intake is purposely limited. I've seen what kids who are on sugar all the time act like. They're insane. Uncontrollable, anger issues, no attention span, etc. Keep your kids off the damn sugar! And if they must have sugar, keep them away from HFCS.

 

[Amaris]

High
Fructose
Corn
Syrup

It is not the entire problem, but it is a huge part of it.

To be honest, I've never been fully convinced that HFCS is the source of the problem.

Don't get me wrong here... the problem is an over-consumption of calories. But if sucrose was cheaper and was used in everything instead of HFCS, we'd still be pouring it on... and I don't believe that the overall calorie consumption would go down significantly. From what I recall, the combined consumption of HFCS + sucrose in the US is still higher then the consumption of sucrose in countries that don't use HFCS to any significant degree.

So really, I think the problem is a general over application of sweeteners. HFCS consumption is IMO more a symptom of that then a cause.

You're right, way too many things have sugar in them--and just about everything has more sugar in it than it should.

The problem with HFCS in particular is that it doesn't satisfy hunger--rather, it makes you even hungrier. So, you eat more... and are still hungry. It screws up the natural signals that tell you when you've had enough.

It is used so prevalently because it is cheap. It is cheap because it is heavily subsidized. Corn farmers are always fighting to keep beet and sugar cane farmers from getting subsidies, because it would make those more attractive.

So, yeah, there should be less sugar in just about everything. And less salt, for that matter. But sugar is the main culprit here.

My kids' sugar intake is purposely limited. I've seen what kids who are on sugar all the time act like. They're insane. Uncontrollable, anger issues, no attention span, etc. Keep your kids off the damn sugar! And if they must have sugar, keep them away from HFCS.

When I drink soda (a rarity any more), I usually drink Sprite Zero just for that reason. No caffeine, no HFCS, no sugar. The only downside is I'm using an artificial sweetener.

I wish they'd make Stevia root fully legal as a food in this country.

J.

 

[RoJoHen]

The people who have "fast" metabolism are overweight people. Need to eat more food to gain weight then someone like you yet they consistently eat more then they need to.

Eh? I do not follow this.

 

[Nardpuncher]

I was born in 1973, in Canada, and I seem to remember in my elementary school there were about 4 or 5 'fat' kids.
I live in Taiwan now by I've been home on visits and I do think you see many more heavy kids now.

Now I'm not saying we were all walking 10 miles uphill to school and back and all that, or that we hated sweet things and just ate liver and onions, of course not.
I do think that it's combination of only a little more food each day (probably only 100 to 200 calories more than I would've eaten per day when I was younger) and a greater pull to internet/video games/TV.
I mean we're not that different there...if I had access to an X-Box I would locked myself in my room! We went outside just a bit more often when I was young because whatever crappy cartoon were on were done by 11AM saturday morning and it was golf or "Sewing with Nancy" or some Christian show so you went out.

 

[Plecostomus]

I misread the thread title as "BRIDE of childhood obesity" and came rushing in here to observe the bannings and threadlocking.

Very disappointing now.

 

[John Picard]

To be honest, I've never been fully convinced that HFCS is the source of the problem.

Don't get me wrong here... the problem is an over-consumption of calories. But if sucrose was cheaper and was used in everything instead of HFCS, we'd still be pouring it on... and I don't believe that the overall calorie consumption would go down significantly. From what I recall, the combined consumption of HFCS + sucrose in the US is still higher then the consumption of sucrose in countries that don't use HFCS to any significant degree.

So really, I think the problem is a general over application of sweeteners. HFCS consumption is IMO more a symptom of that then a cause.

You're right, way too many things have sugar in them--and just about everything has more sugar in it than it should.

The problem with HFCS in particular is that it doesn't satisfy hunger--rather, it makes you even hungrier. So, you eat more... and are still hungry. It screws up the natural signals that tell you when you've had enough.

It is used so prevalently because it is cheap. It is cheap because it is heavily subsidized. Corn farmers are always fighting to keep beet and sugar cane farmers from getting subsidies, because it would make those more attractive.

So, yeah, there should be less sugar in just about everything. And less salt, for that matter. But sugar is the main culprit here.

My kids' sugar intake is purposely limited. I've seen what kids who are on sugar all the time act like. They're insane. Uncontrollable, anger issues, no attention span, etc. Keep your kids off the damn sugar! And if they must have sugar, keep them away from HFCS.

When I drink soda (a rarity any more), I usually drink Sprite Zero just for that reason. No caffeine, no HFCS, no sugar. The only downside is I'm using an artificial sweetener.

I wish they'd make Stevia root fully legal as a food in this country.

J.

A couple of years ago, I had some weird digestive issues crop up that progressively got worse and worse. Belly aches and diarrhea. The colonoscopy and endoscopy revealed nothing major; however, my own observations of my diet showed that my body doesn't like red meat (chicken and pork are OK) and cola beverages give me a belly ache; however, I have no problem digesting the Izzys fruit drinks or the colas made with genuine sugar.

HFCS is a bane on our food supply. I spend more for food that is either certified organic or locally produced. It has made a big difference in how I feel. I also work with a lady who is allergic to HFCS.

 

[JustKate]

High
Fructose
Corn
Syrup

It is not the entire problem, but it is a huge part of it.

Yes. And GM foods.

Let's also not forget the wanky schools that forbid dodgeball, capture the flag and other physical games during recess and phys ed.

What do GM foods have to do with it? Is their nutritional value substantially different?

The problem isn't HFCS nor is it GM foods. It's eating too much and not getting enough exercise. It's that simple.

I'm not saying there is no difference in the way HFCS is metabolized because I don't know. The American Dietetic Association, BTW, rejects the linkage you mention, Robert Maxwell (http://www.eatright.org/cps/rde/xchg/ada/hs.xsl/nutrition_19399_ENU_HTML.htm), but I know other knowledgeable authorities say something else. But whatever. The bottom line is, too much food, not enough exercise. HFCS would not be an issue if people didn't eat too much and got enough exercise.

What I really dislike about the emphasis on HFCS is that it's just too easy - it's kind of like what you said about carbs. People want easy answers to obesity, and apparently "eat less and get more exercise" isn't easy enough.

 

[Jan]

Once upon a time kids went outside to play. Depending on their age, they had limits as to where they could roam, but for the most part they weren't supervised except to have to remain within earshot when Mom or Dad hollared. Being outside generally resulted in walking, running, jumping and exertion.

Now, thanks in large part to galloping paranoia that Mr. Stranger Danger is lurking behind every tree or bush to Do Something Horrible, kids mostly aren't allowed to play outside without direct supervision by an adult. Adults often have other things they want to do so they keep the kid inside parked in front of a TV or game console.

Seems pretty obvious to me what the problem is.

Jan

 

[Bluesteel]

The people who have "fast" metabolism are overweight people. Need to eat more food to gain weight then someone like you yet they consistently eat more then they need to.

Eh? I do not follow this.

Fatter = Bigger = More energy the body needs to just move or sit.

Thin = Smaller = Less energy needed to move around.

That's also why when obese people start to exercise they lose a lot of weight fat and gradually have to exercise harder and harder.