Heroes: "Orientation" and "Jump, Push, Fall" 9/21 - Grade & Discuss

[Anwar]

Re: Heroes: "Orientation" and "Jump, Push, Fall" 9/21 - Grade & Discus

I guess the difference being - with mind-transfer, there would be no possibility of Sylar's mind re-emerging, right? So that means also permanently obliterating Sylar's mind from his own brain without damaging the brain. How?

I wouldn't say no possibility, they could just say Matt suppressed Sylar's mind with implanting Nathan into his body and they'd just assume that Sylar was suppressed for good. Either a coma patient or a prisoner within his own body which now belongs to a man who he killed, a fitting punishment. Of course Sylar's mind turns out to be stronger than they thought...

 

[1001001]

Re: Heroes: "Orientation" and "Jump, Push, Fall" 9/21 - Grade & Discus

Killer Carnies!!!



Actually it's not a bad start. We'll see where it goes.

 

[Borgminister]

Re: Heroes: "Orientation" and "Jump, Push, Fall" 9/21 - Grade & Discus

Excellent start to the 4th season. Production values outstanding, pretty much a hallmark of the show. And the story was, I thought Hiro included, potentially fascinating. Looking forward to next week in what is likely the last season...

 

[broberfett]

Re: Heroes: "Orientation" and "Jump, Push, Fall" 9/21 - Grade & Discus

From Temis the Vorta's post:
Uh, isn't it a bad idea to have a Twelve-Step program at work and have your boss attend the meetings so he can get a good look at just what a total psycho you are? Whatever happened to anonymity? At least Matt took a page from the Dexter Morgan playbook and didn't tell everyone what his addiction is, precisely.

-I found that comment to be extremely hilarious.
-I have no idea how to just quote a tiny portion of Temis' huge post.

They can bring back shape shifting Candice from the dead now that Reaper is all over. Nobody ever stays dead in comics or on superhero shows.

 

[DevilEyes]

Re: Heroes: "Orientation" and "Jump, Push, Fall" 9/21 - Grade & Discus

She should have told Matt to just put Nathan's mind inside Sylar's body, much easier fix. And yes, I know he was dead already but if they can say Sylar could absorb Nathan's memories from his dead body than Matt should be able to put his not totally-dead mind inside his body too.

He can't do that, not even with living people (and as far as I know, nobody in Heroes can or could). As others have pointed out, Sylar got Nathan's memories by touching his belongings (that's where the ability he got from Bridget Bailey, the woman Angela "fed" to him in easry season 3, came in handy). All Matt did was convince Sylar that he was actually Nathan.

Transferring memories is one thing (and Matt can't do that, anyway), transferring a mind/consciousness a very different thing.
(This again reminds me of BSG, where it was implied that Cylons resurrection involved not just transferring memories, but entire consciousness - "soul", as some would call it - of an individual Cylon.)

 

[Archangel]

Re: Heroes: "Orientation" and "Jump, Push, Fall" 9/21 - Grade & Discus

actually they've already done some body swaps, it's a power I think Sylar stole...He put peter in one of the level 5(?) escapees.

 

[Anwar]

Re: Heroes: "Orientation" and "Jump, Push, Fall" 9/21 - Grade & Discus

Future Peter did that to Present Peter, but yeah they can do body swaps in this show.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Re: Heroes: "Orientation" and "Jump, Push, Fall" 9/21 - Grade & Discus

That's how I thought they'd save Nathan. Put him in Arthur's body since he seemed to disappear. There was so much they could have done with Nathan, but they didn't have a clue.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Re: Heroes: "Orientation" and "Jump, Push, Fall" 9/21 - Grade & Discus

I guess the difference being - with mind-transfer, there would be no possibility of Sylar's mind re-emerging, right? So that means also permanently obliterating Sylar's mind from his own brain without damaging the brain. How?

I wouldn't say no possibility, they could just say Matt suppressed Sylar's mind with implanting Nathan into his body and they'd just assume that Sylar was suppressed for good. Either a coma patient or a prisoner within his own body which now belongs to a man who he killed, a fitting punishment. Of course Sylar's mind turns out to be stronger than they thought...

If Sylar comes back, then it's not a better fix than what Angela proposed in the first place (superimposing Nathan's mind/memories on Sylar's consciousness). It's effectively the same thing.

And there's no way dramatically to assure the audience that Sylar "can't" come back, regardless of the scenario, unless it's visualized by some means like, Nathan-Sylar absorbs the power of splitting in two, they literally split into Nathan and Sylar, and then the Sylar half definitively dies. Just telling the audience "Sylar can't come back" won't work dramatically. Gotta prove it.

-I have no idea how to just quote a tiny portion of Temis' huge post.

Sorry. Just cut out the part you like and put

tags around it (second one with /QUOTE).

Transferring memories is one thing (and Matt can't do that, anyway), transferring a mind/consciousness a very different thing.

The only way I'll buy the notion of a mind transfer and not a mind copy is if the original person whose mind is being transferred no longer has that mind present. But since Nathan was dead at the time, there was no mind to transfer anyway. Matt was just fiddling around with the Nathan's memories that Sylar had copied while Nathan was alive - and since Nathan didn't lose his memories via that process, then that shows it was always a copy and not a transfer.

Since the memories were technically embedded in the cufflinks, necklace, etc, memories should have been wiped from Nathan's mind as they were formed, going back for years. And since apparently everyone, metahuman or not, also just "naturally" transfers memories to inanimate objects that they touch (otherwise Sylar's power wouldn't work at all), then everyone on the planet should suffer extreme short term memories.

Future Peter did that to Present Peter, but yeah they can do body swaps in this show.

Which means there's someone out there who can do that - they just haven't run into him or her in this time period. Freaky power...

 

[melancholymecha]

Re: Heroes: "Orientation" and "Jump, Push, Fall" 9/21 - Grade & Discus

does NBC still show current episodes on its site? I might not be home to watch this Monday's ep.

 

[Archangel]

Re: Heroes: "Orientation" and "Jump, Push, Fall" 9/21 - Grade & Discus

Future Peter did that to Present Peter, but yeah they can do body swaps in this show.

Yeah that was it...I've blocked most of the memories of previous seasons out, much as one would block out a traumatic event from childhood.

 

[DarthPipes]

Re: Heroes: "Orientation" and "Jump, Push, Fall" 9/21 - Grade & Discus

One of the many problems with Nathan's death is the show forgot its deus ex machine...Claire's blood could have healed him.

 

[LutherSloan]

Re: Heroes: "Orientation" and "Jump, Push, Fall" 9/21 - Grade & Discus

I would give the premiere an Average, which is the best I can do.

Let's break this down:

Positives
-The carnival people are still pretty much a blank-slate at this point, so maybe they will turn out to be better villains this time
-For the first time, they haven't already predicted the end of the world if someone isn't stopped
-No 'dystopian future' visitations, yet.
-Ray Park's character actually has some nuances, with him grudgingly forced into killing Danko, instead of doing it because he likes to kill.
-HRG actually realizes that he was doing stupid things for once and needs to change (although we've seen this before)
-Peter wasn't doing something insane
-The Sylar/Matt mind-battles

Negatives
-They need to just get rid of Hiro and Ando at this point. Neither one has had a worthwhile storyline since the first season, and they really serve no purpose for the show. I mean, how have they not 'jumped the shark' when the writers have them rescuing a cat from a tree???
-The 'people who can predict the future' gimmick is very, very old by this point.
-I don't see what the point of Claire's storyline is, either. She should have been written off at some point.
-Are we supposed to have sympathy for a horrible person like Angela anymore? The writers must think so.
-Blatant product placements (Guitar Hero, Nissan Cube, Legal Sea Foods, etc.)
-Faux-Nathan has nothing to do, really
-More lazy writing

 

[LutherSloan]

Re: Heroes: "Orientation" and "Jump, Push, Fall" 9/21 - Grade & Discus

One of the many problems with Nathan's death is the show forgot its deus ex machine...Claire's blood could have healed him.

Yes, but Claire doesn't know the truth, and they probably didn't want her to, so it would be even worse writing if they stole some of her blood or something.

 

[ALF]

Re: Heroes: "Orientation" and "Jump, Push, Fall" 9/21 - Grade & Discus

I actually found Hiro and Claire the most interesting storylines, and also the new carnival people are kind of neat.

Matt Parkman is a drag. He's too serious. So is Mohinder. That guy never cracks a smile or brings a little levity to a scene.

Heroes is best when the characters aren't being so serious.

 

[Peter the Younger]

Re: Heroes: "Orientation" and "Jump, Push, Fall" 9/21 - Grade & Discus

One of the many problems with Nathan's death is the show forgot its deus ex machine...Claire's blood could have healed him.

Well in the great Heroes tradition of editing out totally vital information, they had a line in the script that explained the healing blood only works once for a person. (I realize it wasn't on screen, so it didn't happen, I'm just putting it out there.)

 

[Anwar]

Re: Heroes: "Orientation" and "Jump, Push, Fall" 9/21 - Grade & Discus

When did Nathan ever get healed by Claire's blood before? Or are they saying that since he was restored by Adam's blood that Claire's blood wouldn't affect him?

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Re: Heroes: "Orientation" and "Jump, Push, Fall" 9/21 - Grade & Discus

One of the many problems with Nathan's death is the show forgot its deus ex machine...Claire's blood could have healed him.

That was the saving grace - hopefully the writers have now realized what a bs cheap out that is, and will forget they ever thought of it.

Well in the great Heroes tradition of editing out totally vital information, they had a line in the script that explained the healing blood only works once for a person.

Thank GOD they edited that out. Inventing a bs cheap out is bad enough, but inventing arbitrary bs rules for the cheap out would make things worse. A line that that would be a throw-a-shoe-at-the-TV moment. Like this show has so few of those, huh?

Or are they saying that since he was restored by Adam's blood that Claire's blood wouldn't affect him?

Yeesh. A line that that would be a throw-a-couch-at-the-TV moment.

 

[Mr Light]

Re: Heroes: "Orientation" and "Jump, Push, Fall" 9/21 - Grade & Discus

But don't you see?!?! Claire is the long lost descendant of Adam Monroe removed by several centuries!!! He is her great great great great great grandfather! Thusly their blood is absolutely identical in every way!!!

 

[HappyDayRiot]

Re: Heroes: "Orientation" and "Jump, Push, Fall" 9/21 - Grade & Discus

Why complicate it? Sylar has healing power. Ergo, his blood would have healed Nathan too. There and then, in 'An Invisible Thread'. The whole thing was a cop-out and a farce no matter which way you slice it.