TOS Bridge Display Panels

[retronaut]

Is it safe to assume that there is no known reference for the actual bridge display panels of the original set? I am aware of two that have sold at auction (including "HULL PRESSURE COMP'TS"), but other than that, it seems that all re-creations have been based on what can be discerned from screen captures.

Below is a comparison of one panel...from the "subsystems" console...as it appeared on screen vs. how it was represented in the 1997 "Captain's Chair" CD-ROM co-produced by Michael Okuda, and finally, vs. how it appeared in this year's Detroit Science Center display, which also featured the work of Mr. Okuda.

First, an enhanced crop from an HD capture from "The Squire of Gothos." Note the subtle, curved lines in the display, as well as the text placement and size.

Below is the same panel from "Captain's Chair." Note how, without the benefit of the HD source at the time, Mr. Okuda likely couldn't discern the curved lines, and this would explain why his re-creation didn't include them. Also, it's apparent that Okuda took artistic license with the text in his version (although too fuzzy to be legible in the screen capture, compare the text lengths):

Below is the Detroit 2009 version (courtesy Gerald G.), which appears to be based on a mix of the original display and Mr. Okuda's 1997 re-creation. It is closer to the original w/ respect to the yellow and orange colored sections, but like the "Captain's Chair" version, it also lacks the subtle curved lines seen in the original panel. Also, the text reflects a modification of Okuda's original wording:

Is there a "definitive" collection of the bridge panel graphics available? With regard to 100% accuracy, do the on-screen appearances of these panels serve as the only surviving reference for the majority of the panels?

 

[Shaw]

I don't know if there is a definitive collection, but almost everything can be recreated with reasonable accuracy if enough research is done.

For example, those missing curves most likely looked like this...

 

[retronaut]

I don't know if there is a definitive collection, but almost everything can be recreated with reasonable accuracy if enough research is done.

For example, those missing curves most likely looked like this...

Very nice!

I find the original 1960's text interesting too, however, and I am curious as to whether it is known for more than the two panels which have surfaced for auction.

Also, research can only go so far, even with HD captures, and especially for the panels on the right side of the bridge which were so seldomly photographed.

 

[Shaw]

Well, that depends on what you consider research. Most people give up if they aren't given a direct, easy result. I don't have any more access to information than anyone else around here, I just don't give up when obvious answers aren't presented.

You could have found those curves just as easily as I did (I took about 20 minutes looking at this issue and making the re-creation). All you needed to know is that making graphics back then was exceptionally hard to do. So anytime bits of graphics could be reused, it was preferable rather than creating all new ones.

The graphic you asked about was reused, slightly modified, in a different episode (Galileo Seven) practically full frame. If you wanted to do some analysis, some of the wording you were interested in was poorly blacked out in the new graphic and might be recoverable from the frame grab.

So sure, research can only go so far... but I rarely see anyone willing to take it even half as far as it can be taken.

Personally, I'm not fond of the easy answers anyways. I like having to figure out other angles to attack a problem. And many of my projects started as things people said couldn't be done.

 

[retronaut]

Well, that depends on what you consider research. Most people give up if they aren't given a direct, easy result. I don't have any more access to information than anyone else around here, I just don't give up when obvious answers aren't presented.

You could have found those curves just as easily as I did (I took about 20 minutes looking at this issue and making the re-creation). All you needed to know is that making graphics back then was exceptionally hard to do. So anytime bits of graphics could be reused, it was preferable rather than creating all new ones.

The graphic you asked about was reused, slightly modified, in a different episode (Galileo Seven) practically full frame. If you wanted to do some analysis, some of the wording you were interested in was poorly blacked out in the new graphic and might be recoverable from the frame grab.

So sure, research can only go so far... but I rarely see anyone willing to take it even half as far as it can be taken.

Personally, I'm not fond of the easy answers anyways. I like having to figure out other angles to attack a problem. And many of my projects started as things people said couldn't be done.

Believe me...and this is coming from someone who spent more than a year modeling in Google Sketchup nearly a dozen sets of a familiar film & television backlot, all in extreme detail...I know all about going the extra mile in performing research, including but not limited to the laborious task of examining every scene from every episode of a series.

I am not looking for easy answers...only posting a question about a subject of interest in an appropriate forum. I have accumulated and studied thousands of HD Star Trek frames...I have studied Racer X's outstanding 3D bridge model which I stumbled across last year...I have studied original film clips...and I have contacted several hard-core Star Trek fans who have also been of assistance. Point is, I am not averse to doing research. That said, I obviously have missed something in "The Galileo Seven," so I am re-examining the captures now.

I still contend that there is only so far one can go in extracting the fine details from even the HD captures, as close-up shots of panels are a rarity. In some cases, close-up shots are also misleading, as there is a closeup in one episode of a bridge panel that in fact was not in the fixed array of panels on the set.

 

[retronaut]

Thanks for the Galileo Seven tip. Indeed, that episode has a closeup of the bridge's Environmental console panel #1. This is a different panel, however, than the one shown above, which is Subsystems console panel #2. You're right though...the text on both axes is blacked out in the Galileo Seven shot, which portrays this as a shuttlecraft panel.

The scan is at http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x16hd/thegalileosevenhd035.jpg

After adjusting levels in PhotoShop, I was able to make out the first portion of the X-axis text. It reads "FLOW RATE - " and is followed by more text, which I can't make out.

 

[Dar70]

What about the Bridge recreation in Enterprises mirror episode's?? It looks like they got most of them right there.

 

[retronaut]

What about the Bridge recreation in Enterprises mirror episode's?? It looks like they got most of them right there.

Those appear to be identical to the Okuda-created panels which appeared in the Detroit exhibition...which themselves are revisions of his earlier versions for "Captain's Chair."

 

[alchemist]

Although the "subsystems" panel graphic shown in low-res in retronaut's original post looks the same as the panel graphic shown in Shaw's post (as well as the graphic from the Galileo Seven episode), they are, in fact, not the same. There were several different versions of this graphic, each with different curve geometries. And also, the ordinates and abscissas changed with each use.

 

[retronaut]

I have studied several HD clips of the Communications console, and it appears that some sort of diffusing material was used to blur the panel details on that particular console. At first, I thought camera depth of field was the culprit, but I found angled views in which the panels were diffused & blurred despite that they were well within the range of focus.

 

[Dar70]

Maybe Okuda can shed some light. I know that he used stills to recreate the panels but you never know.

 

[alchemist]

I have studied several HD clips of the Communications console, and it appears that some sort of diffusing material was used to blur the panel details on that particular console. At first, I thought camera depth of field was the culprit, but I found angled views in which the panels were diffused & blurred despite that they were well within the range of focus.

The diffusing material was likely hairspray. It was used with some camera angles to reduce reflections caused by lights...

...though some shots didn't use it and showed the panels as clear as a bell.

 

[retronaut]

Maybe Okuda can shed some light. I know that he used stills to recreate the panels but you never know.

I am new on this board, and I didn't realize that Mr. Okuda posted here, or I would have ATTN'd the topic to him in the subject. In addition to learning more about the evolution of his re-creations, the availability of original panels or photos for reference, etc., I would also like to know if Michael has any knowledge of whatever became of the original Enterprise diagram and dedication plaque in the turbolift alcove.

 

[Shaw]

Although the "subsystems" panel graphic shown in low-res in retronaut's original post looks the same as the panel graphic shown in Shaw's post (as well as the graphic from the Galileo Seven episode), they are, in fact, not the same. There were several different versions of this graphic, each with different curve geometries. And also, the ordinates and abscissas changed with each use.

Time and again in my studies of this stuff I've found that the art department would reuse as many (or as much) of the pre-existing graphics as possible rather than attempt to draw new ones.

The curves between the two panels seem to match even if the final panels are not the same. Added to that the blacked out text that seems to match the original panel in question, I'd say that it is a good reference source.

Of course alchemist is one of those people with more access to behind the scenes stuff than the rest of us. So I'm sure he'll share the fruits of his research of his collection... in December... of 2036.



Hey alchemist, when is StarTrekHistory.com coming back? Even though the elaborate steps you guys attempted to keep people from using those images obviously came back to bight you, it isn't as though you couldn't put it back up with a little more caution for viruses and the like.

From statements I've heard, it sounds like you guys didn't keep a backup of the site and that you'll have to recreate all the images (as flash) to put it back. I'd be happy to help you recover all that lost information so you don't have to reinvent the wheel. This is, after all, a hobby for most of us and no one should have to spend pointless hours remaking what had already existed once if at all possible.

Or you guys could just do it yourselves (here).

 

[Dar70]

Maybe Okuda can shed some light. I know that he used stills to recreate the panels but you never know.

I am new on this board, and I didn't realize that Mr. Okuda posted here, or I would have ATTN'd the topic to him in the subject. In addition to learning more about the evolution of his re-creations, the availability of original panels or photos for reference, etc., I would also like to know if Michael has any knowledge of whatever became of the original Enterprise diagram and dedication plaque in the turbolift alcove.

Yeah he does post once in awhile. Maybe he will see it and comment.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Hey alchemist, when is StarTrekHistory.com coming back? Even though the elaborate steps you guys attempted to keep people from using those images obviously came back to bight you, it isn't as though you couldn't put it back up with a little more caution for viruses and the like.

From statements I've heard, it sounds like you guys didn't keep a backup of the site and that you'll have to recreate all the images (as flash) to put it back. I'd be happy to help you recover all that lost information so you don't have to reinvent the wheel. This is, after all, a hobby for most of us and no one should have to spend pointless hours remaking what had already existed once if at all possible.

Or you guys could just do it yourselves (here).

Well, whaddya know...

 

[alchemist]

Okay, many apologies for being coy...

And yes, I have some images of that panel (and others) in high res.

And yes, they will eventually be posted on startrekhistory.com.

And yes, startrekhistory.com will be back soon.

And yes, we did keep a back-up of the site.

But no, we decided to not restore the site from the back-ups.

And yes, we are completely retooling the site with new animations, new interviews, new images, new documents, etc.

Stay tuned...

...and again, please forgive my coyness.

Dave

 

[Maurice]

Is it safe to assume that there is no known reference for the actual bridge display panels of the original set? I am aware of two that have sold at auction (including "HULL PRESSURE COMP'TS"), but other than that, it seems that all re-creations have been based on what can be discerned from screen captures.

Below is a comparison of one panel...from the "subsystems" console...as it appeared on screen vs. how it was represented in the 1997 "Captain's Chair" CD-ROM co-produced by Michael Okuda, and finally, vs. how it appeared in this year's Detroit Science Center display, which also featured the work of Mr. Okuda.

First, an enhanced crop from an HD capture from "The Squire of Gothos." Note the subtle, curved lines in the display, as well as the text placement and size.

Those are pretty slapdash recreations. In addition to the missing arcs, there are too many columns for the top three rows (should be 11 or 12).

 

[retronaut]

Does anyone recall which episode featured this shot of a Communications console panel? This cropped image is from the archived startrekhistory.com site, and was brought to my attention by Dave. If I recall correctly, "Voice Translator" was relevant to the scene, and I have reviewed the Trekcore.com caps from numerous candidate episodes, including "Where No Many Has Gone Before," "The Changeling," etc., but so far, no luck finding the frame in question. It's possible of course that it was a quick insert that the Trekcore caps don't include.

 

[Ziz]

Wasn't that from the destruct sequence in "Last Battlefield"?