What was the Kelvin doing in the Prime Universe?

[Plecostomus]

I also pretend in my mind that there are far fewer lens-flares and the lighting is a reasonable level... and that due to wear and tear (5 year mission and all that) the colors have been toned down.

Like I said, it's not hard.

 

[Rush Limborg]

Well...Margaret Clark said that Mike'd Romulan War Book(s) would help explain why TOS looks so "primitive" in comparison to Enterprise, etc.

Just sayin....

Just because I'm curious about where this new universe will go doesn't mean I don't want to see the continuing adventures of Captain Ezri Dax of the USS Aventine.

Same here!

Here's to our lovely Captain Dax!

 

[James Bond]

And the bridge:
1701 (TOS):
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/gallery/factfiles/1701-bridge.jpg
Kelvin:
http://img.trekmovie.com/images/st09/trail3/57.jpg
(sorry, it was the only picture I could find)

Hmm. I see your point. It's almost as if the image in the first link was made back in the 1960's, and the second in a more modern era.

I just use my imagination and pretend TOS always looked like Enterprise/JJ-verse. Problem solved!

Madness.

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

I just use my imagination and pretend TOS always looked like Enterprise/JJ-verse. Problem solved!

Madness.

Sparta.

 

[M'Sharak]

And the bridge:
1701 (TOS):
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/gallery/factfiles/1701-bridge.jpg
Kelvin:
http://img.trekmovie.com/images/st09/trail3/57.jpg
(sorry, it was the only picture I could find)

Hmm. I see your point. It's almost as if the image in the first link was made back in the 1960's...

Since it's direct link to an image at EAS rather than to the page containing it, I'd be willing to bet that the image you actually see is of much more recent vintage than the 1960s.

I just use my imagination and pretend TOS always looked like Enterprise/JJ-verse. Problem solved!

Madness.

Sparta.

Star Wars.

 

[EnsignRicky]

In the Prime Universe?
Kicking ass and taking numbers, well into the twenty fourth century.

 

[pookha]

i think it was orci who said that indeed the birth of jimmy boy was early.
that kind of stress could have caused him to arrive weeks early.

I disagree, if only because the attack took place so quickly. Now, if Kirk had been delivered by C-section, I'd buy it. As it is, if we're really conservative and say Pike's "twelve minutes" was counting from the moment Robau died, and said it took, say, a half hour for Robau to shuttle over to the Narada, add maybe ten minutes for the initial attack, that's still less than an hour, which is extremely quick for such things (actually, I don't remember if we first saw Winona before or after the attack started). I suppose we could say that she had the most skittish uterus in history and was induced just by the fact that the Kelvin changed course to investigate the anomaly, but since there wasn't that much lead-time between the second opening appearing and Spock coming out of it, I don't think that adds enough time, either.

My point is, for Kirk to have been born before the Kelvin rammed the Narada, Winona would've had to have gone into labor well before the timeline began to change, so Kirk-Prime was born on the Kelvin, too.

we dont see her until after the first attack at least/

and after the first birth the second and then on can come on pretty quick.
and if she had been knocked up a against a wall or for some reason the doctors thought the baby was in distress the doctors could have induced it.

 

[Disillusioned]

Kelvin:
http://img.trekmovie.com/images/st09/trail3/57.jpg
(sorry, it was the only picture I could find)

This shows something of what I was talking about in the other thread. If you look along the back wall, you see a lot in common with the redone Enterprise's bridge, they just made things a bit more angular and not blindingly white is all. That's part of why I feel everything in this movie must be an AU ala "Parallels" rather than an altered timeline caused by Nero and his merry band going back in time.

 

[davejames]

Amen. The way I see it, TNG was always how Rodenberry intended the future to look. He couldn't get that in the sixties on a TV budget. So when they started the new show they explained the differences by saying it was eighty years in the future. By the time Undiscovered Country came out they were using many of the same sets from the series and the differences between the 23rd and 24th century were almost superficial (different uniforms, phasers, etc.).

Agreed. You always have to use a little bit of "historical revisionism" with Trek. I mean, from the standpoint of the later shows, were we really meant to believe that the alien planets visited by Kirk REALLY looked like they did on TOS? With all the fake rocks and fake sky backdrops? lol

Or was that just an interpretation of those events? The latter is how I choose to see it.

There's also the black hole to consider. Who's to say that the black hole didn't lead to an actual alternate universe, not just a past timeline? It would certainly explain why the prime universe was not altered in any way - because Nero and Spock Prime didn't emerge in *its* past, they emerged in another *universe's* past.

(It would also explain other things, such as the altered stardate system and the look of the Kelvin being so different from TOS.)

Yeah that's a possibility too. And that would explain why Spock didn't try to correct the timeline-- because it became apparent there were already some subtle differences with this universe before the Narada even arrived -- and only a Spock Prime from THAT universe would be in a position to make the correct changes.

I just use my imagination and pretend TOS always looked like Enterprise/JJ-verse. Problem solved!

I'm going to have to use my imagination to pretend I never read that post ... yeah, BALANCE OF TERROR's dramatic bridge lighting would SO not benefit from the Universal Fill Light and and flashbulb spots of TheAbramsThing.

Actually at red alert the bridge DID get a bit darker and moodier, with the red light washing over everything. I think that would have made a GREAT backdrop for a Balance of Terror-type story.

 

[Captain MAJ]

and if she had been knocked up a against a wall.....

So many jokes in that line...

 

[OneBuckFilms]

Since the Kelvin was there before Nero's incursion, what was it doing in the prime universe?

EDIT: I like how much replies this thread has been getting.

My guess is that without the Lightning Storm In Space phenomena, Captain Robau was probably headed to Earth for some upgrades/repairs/crew rotation etc., with Winona and George Kirk due for some Maternity leave in their native Iowa.

Without the stress of what happened in the movie, the medications slowing down the birth of Winona's child would lead to her giving birth in Iowa a month later than in the movie.

George Kirk may well have gotten back to the Kelvin for further missions as First Officer, while Winona stayed back and brought up the young James Kirk.

They would then move offworld once Jim Kirk was old enough, where Kodos the Executioner would show up during a famine, and we know the rest there ...

 

[OneBuckFilms]

Since the Kelvin was there before Nero's incursion, what was it doing in the prime universe?

It wasn't in the Prime universe.

Nero's ship arrived in that alternate (or real universe, depending on one's viewpoint) to capture Spock Prime before he arrived. Hence, waiting 20 years because they--Nero and his crew--arrived too early...

And if the Kelvin was in the Prime Universe, the viewscreens, consoles, and weapons must have took a step backward between 2233 and 2265.

Like we see the Kelvin firing tons of lasers/phasers. (rapid-fire)
http://trekmovie.com/images/st09/intelkelvinphasers.jpg

Then we see the TOS Enterprise firing like, one phaser.
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/4/49/Enterprise_fires_on_planet.jpg

.

What happened to these turrets in the prime universe?

Actually, the universe seen in JJ's Star Trek is, in fact, the prime universe. History has been changed by Nero's actions; and unfortunately, the producers needed to invent the whole "alternate" angle in order to appease the rabid fanboys who wouldn't be able to take the truth.

I suspect the writers would disagree with you there, since they had the Alternate Reality scenario in mind as a way to allow for the changes they had to make in order to make a better movie.

One of the biggest influences on this choice was Parallels.

 

[USS Excelsior]

The stardate system was also unexplained from either universes.

And down the road there'll probably be no NuTuvok.

 

[shapeshifter]

Since the Kelvin was there before Nero's incursion, what was it doing in the prime universe?

EDIT: I like how much replies this thread has been getting.

My guess is that without the Lightning Storm In Space phenomena, Captain Robau was probably headed to Earth for some upgrades/repairs/crew rotation etc., with Winona and George Kirk due for some Maternity leave in their native Iowa.

Without the stress of what happened in the movie, the medications slowing down the birth of Winona's child would lead to her giving birth in Iowa a month later than in the movie.

George Kirk may well have gotten back to the Kelvin for further missions as First Officer, while Winona stayed back and brought up the young James Kirk.

They would then move offworld once Jim Kirk was old enough, where Kodos the Executioner would show up during a famine, and we know the rest there ...

Nice bit of reasoning.

 

[trevanian]

Amen. The way I see it, TNG was always how Rodenberry intended the future to look. He couldn't get that in the sixties on a TV budget. So when they started the new show they explained the differences by saying it was eighty years in the future. By the time Undiscovered Country came out they were using many of the same sets from the series and the differences between the 23rd and 24th century were almost superficial (different uniforms, phasers, etc.).

Agreed. You always have to use a little bit of "historical revisionism" with Trek. I mean, from the standpoint of the later shows, were we really meant to believe that the alien planets visited by Kirk REALLY looked like they did on TOS? With all the fake rocks and fake sky backdrops? lol

20 years later, and ENORMOUS sums of money later, and look at HIDE & Q -- it looks at least as bad as any planetscape on TOS, probably cause the crew didn't know how to shoot the horizon properly or light the thing for mood effect. So you can't just tar TOS with the cheap & fake brush, it extends.

 

[Gepard]

20 years later, and ENORMOUS sums of money later, and look at HIDE & Q -- it looks at least as bad as any planetscape on TOS, probably cause the crew didn't know how to shoot the horizon properly or light the thing for mood effect. So you can't just tar TOS with the cheap & fake brush, it extends.

Which undermines davejames point not a whit, if such was your intention.

 

[trevanian]

20 years later, and ENORMOUS sums of money later, and look at HIDE & Q -- it looks at least as bad as any planetscape on TOS, probably cause the crew didn't know how to shoot the horizon properly or light the thing for mood effect. So you can't just tar TOS with the cheap & fake brush, it extends.

Which undermines davejames point not a whit, if such was your intention.

That's great ... I guess. Am I supposed to be going after this guy? As far as I know, he isn't Bailey or STone in disguise.

The SABATAGE guy was running the old TNG is what GR wanted TOS to look like routine, which has never held much water. This other poster built on that, and I'm re-pointing out the invalidity (if that is a word) of the whole TNG looks right thing ... and in a casual fashion, not an attacking way.

Point me to a quote that will piss me off from one of these guys, and I'm sure I can oblige you with some 'undermining' if that'll help things out any.

 

[Gepard]

That's great ... I guess. Am I supposed to be going after this guy? As far as I know, he isn't Bailey or STone in disguise.
...
Point me to a quote that will piss me off from one of these guys, and I'm sure I can oblige you with some 'undermining' if that'll help things out any.

Fair enough. I just wasn't sure what your point was in spreading the love, for lack of a better term, for shitty sets.

 

[davejames]

20 years later, and ENORMOUS sums of money later, and look at HIDE & Q -- it looks at least as bad as any planetscape on TOS, probably cause the crew didn't know how to shoot the horizon properly or light the thing for mood effect. So you can't just tar TOS with the cheap & fake brush, it extends.

Very true. I wasn't trying to knock TOS (my favorite series); I was just using it as a more obvious example.

And to be fair to that ep, I think that was intended as some imaginary planet created by Q anyway.

Although I'm sure you can point out other examples from TNG.

 

[Rush Limborg]

Since the Kelvin was there before Nero's incursion, what was it doing in the prime universe?

EDIT: I like how much replies this thread has been getting.

My guess is that without the Lightning Storm In Space phenomena, Captain Robau was probably headed to Earth for some upgrades/repairs/crew rotation etc., with Winona and George Kirk due for some Maternity leave in their native Iowa.

Without the stress of what happened in the movie, the medications slowing down the birth of Winona's child would lead to her giving birth in Iowa a month later than in the movie.

George Kirk may well have gotten back to the Kelvin for further missions as First Officer, while Winona stayed back and brought up the young James Kirk.

They would then move offworld once Jim Kirk was old enough, where Kodos the Executioner would show up during a famine, and we know the rest there ...

Nice bit of reasoning.

Amen--and frankly, it's what I always thought, too.


Frankly, I'm amazed that SO many fans don't even bother rationalizing the "inconsistancy" like this--they're just all content to whine and moan about how their precious "canon" has been raped....