Someone posted this idea about the Prime Universe

[M'Sharak]

...Nero is not in the same timeline as the one he occupied before exiting the 24th century via black/white/wormhole to the 22nd century, where his arrival creates a branching point. Because of that branching, he will not be able to count on history playing out in the same way as it had in the Prime timeline with which he is familiar. That's a parallel universe...

The problem with this line of thinking is that...
[insert same boilerplate "that's not the way time travel and timelines work in Star Trek" spiel which gastrof has made dozens of times by now, in spite of substantial evidence and compelling arguments to the contrary]

The problem lies not with the line of thinking. The problem lies in the continued refusal to consider anything which fails to conform to a narrow, preconceived notion of the Way Things Are (Star Trek version) that is not even consistent with all of the on-screen Trek which existed before this movie came along. I cannot help you with that, just as I cannot help the OP to see anything but what he "knows" is there.

You have already demonstrated repeatedly that you are going to think what you are going to think what you are going to think, forever and ever, Amen, and that you do not for a second deign to allow that anyone else could possibly have anything of value to say on the matter. This is nothing but the proclamation of the Gospel of Trek Time Travel According to gastrof™, delivered one more time, and I see no point whatsoever in going through the futile exercise of attempting to discuss the issue with you yet again.

 

[Tom Riley]

The way I've kinda settled on how it's worked out is best explained with a picture...

It's kinda hard to read the labels on the diagram in the 4th panel, but it says TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, and NEW MOVIE.

 

[The rapture]

The VCR tape is a good idea.

You have recorded and filled the tape. Now you are at the end, so you rewind the tape and start to record OVER what you had already. Thus erasing what you have previously recorded as you move forward on the same tape. The original time line is now only going to be remembered by Spock since Nero and crew are all dead.

Regardless of what anyone says that about this "alternate" universe, you are only fooling yourself. it was not mentioned at all. Spocks comment on the bridge only goes to show that the pass has been alternated and the future is now new. Thus "all that you know" has been erased. They clearly have said "time travel" and "the future". Nero and Spock went into the pass and changed everything by their actions. There is no mention of alternate universe etc. They don't mention it because they want to leave every option open in case they have to redo/change things.

 

[OneBuckFilms]

The VCR tape is a good idea.

You have recorded and filled the tape. Now you are at the end, so you rewind the tape and start to record OVER what you had already. Thus erasing what you have previously recorded as you move forward on the same tape. The original time line is now only going to be remembered by Spock since Nero and crew are all dead.

Regardless of what anyone says that about this "alternate" universe, you are only fooling yourself. it was not mentioned at all. Spocks comment on the bridge only goes to show that the pass has been alternated and the future is now new. Thus "all that you know" has been erased. They clearly have said "time travel" and "the future". Nero and Spock went into the pass and changed everything by their actions. There is no mention of alternate universe etc. They don't mention it because they want to leave every option open in case they have to redo/change things.

Uhura: An Alternate Reality.

Spock: Precisely.

 

[Disillusioned]

Given the number of differences between the established "prime" universe and what was seen during Nero's initial incursion, I also feel that it was always an AU. Given the silliness of what caused Nero to go back in time, I'd like to think the future portion of the movie was also an AU.

we know so little of the kelvin time period i dont see a lot of real basis for this.

Since they knew what the Romulans looked like, that's one thing. Another big one is the Kelvin herself. She's larger than even the original Enterprise, and she shares more in common as far as design goes with the redone Enterprise than any TOS design. Especially the bridge. Just looking through there, there is a lot of familiar-looking stuff in the background as the new Enterprise bridge, it's just more angular and not blindingly white.

I really don't understand the need for there to be any connection to the regular universe since it ends up being an AU in any case.

 

[pookha]

Given the number of differences between the established "prime" universe and what was seen during Nero's initial incursion, I also feel that it was always an AU. Given the silliness of what caused Nero to go back in time, I'd like to think the future portion of the movie was also an AU.

we know so little of the kelvin time period i dont see a lot of real basis for this.

Since they knew what the Romulans looked like, that's one thing. Another big one is the Kelvin herself. She's larger than even the original Enterprise, and she shares more in common as far as design goes with the redone Enterprise than any TOS design. Especially the bridge. Just looking through there, there is a lot of familiar-looking stuff in the background as the new Enterprise bridge, it's just more angular and not blindingly white.

I really don't understand the need for there to be any connection to the regular universe since it ends up being an AU in any case.

you dont find out it was a romulan attack until much later thus my theory.
at no point does any of the kelvin crew mention that the narada's crew are romulan.

only later within the context of pike's disseration is it mentioned.
which is why i put forth it is something starfleet intelligence realised after they went through the logs of the incident.

i really suspect the kelvin crew, unless one of their communication officers hearing the transmission as it came in and recognized it, thought they were dealing with a bunch of crazy vulcans.

and i think some of the distortion of the kelvin size comes from some of the perspective used in the effects shots.

 

[Devon]

The VCR tape is a good idea.

You have recorded and filled the tape. Now you are at the end, so you rewind the tape and start to record OVER what you had already. Thus erasing what you have previously recorded as you move forward on the same tape. The original time line is now only going to be remembered by Spock since Nero and crew are all dead.

More correct analogy:

You come to the end of the VCR tape, so you just put in a new blank VHS. That's the movie.

Regardless of what anyone says

Including the writers + two characters in the film + the actors.

that about this "alternate" universe, you are only fooling yourself. it was not mentioned at all. Spocks comment on the bridge only goes to show that the pass has been alternated and the future is now new. Thus "all that you know" has been erased. They clearly have said "time travel" and "the future". Nero and Spock went into the pass and changed everything by their actions. There is no mention of alternate universe etc. They don't mention it because they want to leave every option open in case they have to redo/change things.

If they are completely erased then why does Spock still exist and remain with the memories of his original life? Since you are implying that Spock+Spock Prime are from the singular time, then Spock Prime would not know what he knows, or possibly would even cease to exist. But he doesn't, he remained unharmed, meaning he is from another timeline separate from young Spock and his experiences.

Since they knew what the Romulans looked like, that's one thing.

They do?

Robau to Nero: "Where are you from?"

Another big one is the Kelvin herself. She's larger than even the original Enterprise, and she shares more in common as far as design goes with the redone Enterprise than any TOS design. Especially the bridge. Just looking through there, there is a lot of familiar-looking stuff in the background as the new Enterprise bridge, it's just more angular and not blindingly white.

I really don't understand the need for there to be any connection to the regular universe since it ends up being an AU in any case.

How does what the Kelvin look like mean anything if it's an AU or not?

 

[Devon]

Delete.

 

[Australis]

Wow, months later and this same argument rolls on. SOme people need to move on...

 

[Skywalker]

Wow, months later and this same argument rolls on. SOme people need to move on...

Dude, people are still going to be arguing about this ten years from now.

Well, not me, because I don't care enough about it. But others will.

 

[Australis]

I'm with you.

 

[Photoman15]

The term "alternate reality" appears in dialogue in the very scene you mention ("Spock makes the point on the bridge about the past being altered") and Spock acknowledges it.

Being altered and it being an alternate reality are two different things.

 

[Disillusioned]

you dont find out it was a romulan attack until much later thus my theory.
at no point does any of the kelvin crew mention that the narada's crew are romulan.

only later within the context of pike's disseration is it mentioned.
which is why i put forth it is something starfleet intelligence realised after they went through the logs of the incident.

i really suspect the kelvin crew, unless one of their communication officers hearing the transmission as it came in and recognized it, thought they were dealing with a bunch of crazy vulcans.

I think even given that, with the other things I mentioned there seems to be plenty of difference between the movie and what had been previously established. The color of Vulcan's sky being another one.

and i think some of the distortion of the kelvin size comes from some of the perspective used in the effects shots.

Part of that is the shuttlebay scene, and the same sort of thing is why the official size of the redone Enterprise is quite a bit larger than the original as well. But even besides that, it has a crew of 800, which is twice the number the original Enterprise had. That may not necessarily mean the ship is twice as large as the original Enterprise, but I'm going to guess that even with everyone crammed in to barracks-style quarters the ship would probably be at least somewhat larger. And again, just look at the bridge and how much it resembles the redone Enterprise's bridge.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Who we should just ignore the whinning fanboys and be done with it since they'll just move on to being annoyed and whinning about something else soon any way.

 

[M'Sharak]

The term "alternate reality" appears in dialogue in the very scene you mention ("Spock makes the point on the bridge about the past being altered") and Spock acknowledges it.

Being altered and it being an alternate reality are two different things.

I'm quite aware of that.

You'll note that I did not say that the OP's sentence which I quoted was believed by me to be a correct assessment; I merely quoted what he said in the first post of this thread. See it in context here:

This topic has been done to death. Personally I don't agree that there is a Prime Universe and that they have basically thrown TOS,TNG,DS9 and VOY out the window.

But I just read on another site the following point about this whole concept.

When Spock does the mindmeld with Kirk he says "129 years from now". Not an alternate reality. Not a parallel universe. Scotty looks at Spock and says "you are from the future". Spock makes the point on the bridge about the past being altered. There is no mention of a parallel universe.

Despite anything that is said by the writers, and fans. There is nothing in the film to make the notion of a parallel universe. They use the concept of time travel and all that has happened is now gone. So again no prime universe.

"Alternate reality" was the term used in the movie, and it is the alternate reality/parallel universe aspect which the OP is contending was never mentioned and therefore does not figure in the movie -- a notion which has been demonstrated many times over to be false.

Now, are there any other blindingly obvious things you wish to point out?

Who we should just ignore the whinning fanboys and be done with it since they'll just move on to being annoyed and whinning about something else soon any way.

We have whinnying fanboys? Best not yank their tails, then, 'K?

 

[PhasersOnStun]

Maybe I'm biased, because I'm a writer.

But a writer is in effect the creator of his or her own creation. And if the writer says "alternate reality," "alternate timeline," etc. then that's what it is. Full stop, end of story. A creator knows what he intended to create.

Now, one can argue that the creator created it poorly. But that's another issue. For example, let's say I wrote a story about a frog, and I described it as small and purple with a song like a bluejay. Frankly, that doesn't read much like a frog. Maybe I've never seen or heard a frog, and I did a poor job. But that doesn't mean that I didn't write a story about a frog. I wrote it, I know what it's about, it's about a frog. I just did it poor job.

Personally, I've seen the new movie three times and I think the writers did a great job describing an alternate reality. If the OP or others don't, fair enough. They are entitled to their opinion, just like the rest of us our entitled to ours. But I think suggesting that the writers did not write what they intended to write is as silly as suggesting that the sky is not blue (not withstanding weather/cloud cover) because a given individual has an image in their mind of blue that is different than the color of the clear sky.

 

[The rapture]

It is quite clear that some people are just giving Abrams a free pass why that is? Beats me but there is NO alternate universe. Spock and Nero changed the time line by going back in time. That is the WHOLE premise of the movie. Again, the VCR tape which has been recording has now been rewound and started to record again, thus erasing everything as it moves forward. References to "time travel" not parallel worlds is mentioned. Nimoy Spock clearly says "129 years from NOW" not "from another universe."

So is there anything you need to know that you clearly don't understand?

So people need to realize that all Trek (except for ENT) has now been erased. The movie clearly tells you this. Spock on the bridge says alternate reality which does NOT mean alternate universe. He merely points out that the events have been altered because of the time travel. It IS that clear. Making up excuses to say that it is not just being in denial.

"Forget all that you know"...Remember this slogan? This was their way of telling the world and the fans that Trek has been ERASED and they are starting everything again.


To quote Denny Crane..."It is just that simple".

 

[SalvorHardin]

for fuck's sake...

 

[The rapture]

"Nice" picture but sorry I just don't buy this parallel universe nonsense. Nothing supports it. I guess having an opinion is a bad thing around here? Should we do another "Who is the best Captain" thread instead?

 

[SalvorHardin]

"Nice" picture but sorry I just don't buy this parallel universe nonsense. Nothing supports it. I guess having an opinion is a bad thing around here? Should we do another "Who is the best Captain" thread instead?

Having an opinion is fine. Expressing it is fine too.
What's also fine is others telling you their opinion about your opinion.

If you can't take it, that's your problem. Deal with it.
Don't go starting that "I'm being hunted and targeted for my opinion" bullshit though.