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Should Phase II move on?

Mostly, we seem to be going down a rat hole here, meticulously discussing and characterizing the degree of fan involvement there is in each script of ours.

I'll leave that debate to the rats. I as just making sure all sides were heard without casual, if well-worded dismissal.

As for your multi-thousand dollar contributions Mr. Schnitzer, I for one, thank you. From the point of view of a fan of the series, I am glad your family is so understanding and that your occupation allows such generosity in these trying economic times. I have heard that Mr. Cawley's continual performances as Elvis provide the core of the hundreds of thousands it takes to subsidize the series. I am sure he appreciates your help as well.
 
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If Fans created their own Fan Films, something original and exciting might come out. To copycat Hollywood, you are just an impersonator with no thoughts of one's own.
Do you mean fans should do their own original series or original versions of an existing show? Either way, you are correct that it's better than being a straight "copycat."
 
Mostly, we seem to be going down a rat hole here, meticulously discussing and characterizing the degree of fan involvement there is in each script of ours.

I'll leave that debate to the rats. I as just making sure all sides were heard without casual, if well-worded dismissal.

Well, it's important to me that you do not feel I am dismissive of your position. I think you've expressed an important value--something you feel strongly that fan productions must have: a script written by a fan who is not also a professional writer. I respect your value and I share it--but not as strongly as you do. That's why I responded to one of your earlier posts "You do raise an important value that we share: make sure there's fan involvement in the story and scripting process." Where we differ is that I think not every fan production needs to have the exact same level of involvement from professional writers (i.e., zero involvement). I think some fan films can (and do) make judicious use of professionals in various capacities (including writing) without relinquishing rights to the title of being a "fan production."

I do welcome input from anyone who might be reading this thread, however. I'm wondering if people would like to see only episodes written by non-professionals instead of sharing writing duties between professionals and non-professionals as the need arises (and as we've been doing).

And I think Dennis is probably right: when people get together to make a production that is original and that's not derivative and not based on property owned by some other party, I think it's not really a fan production anymore. It's just an independent film. But if you do a production based on someone else's property generating your own original stories instead of using old cast-off scripts, well, then it's just a matter of "Our fan-based series is more original than your fan-based series." Like I said: it's all just a continuum anyway and every series falls somewhere on that continuum and we all have our unique place. We love and respect all our fan film comrades and they all have something to offer.
 
When I say original, I mean to say one can take characters that have already been created but don't beat the same story to death. And don't take someone else's script. You may accidently find that they may have an Estate that covers the author's work or the WGA after you. Either way you are looking at possibility of:

"the network and two co-defendants must pay Writer Harlan Ellison $285,000 for plagiarism of a script"

"JK Rowling and her publisher are being sued for £500million for allegedly copying Harry Potter from an earlier children's book, also by an English writer."

This writer has died and it is his estate that is suing.

I hope you have crossed all your "T"s and dotted your "I"s
 
When I say original, I mean to say one can take characters that have already been created but don't beat the same story to death. And don't take someone else's script. You may accidently find that they may have an Estate that covers the author's work or the WGA after you. Either way you are looking at possibility of:

"the network and two co-defendants must pay Writer Harlan Ellison $285,000 for plagiarism of a script"

"JK Rowling and her publisher are being sued for £500million for allegedly copying Harry Potter from an earlier children's book, also by an English writer."

This writer has died and it is his estate that is suing.

I hope you have crossed all your "T"s and dotted your "I"s

Absolutely! That's why it has been such an odd lot of episodes on our plate: we can only do those old scripts that we can get permission to legally do. That's also one reason why we can only get these episodes out the door once a year. The legal preproduction work adds some time to the process. For example, it's no secret that it was that very issue which ended up being a problem with our plans to do "Kilkenny Cats." Revisiting the Kzinti in the Trek universe was an exciting idea--until we found out that Larry Niven already gave the television/motion picture/(and presumably Internet) rights to someone else years ago. Tracking down that individual (who it turns out is unwilling to permit use of the characters) was a bit of a chore--and ultimately disappointing to us. So to prevent that kind of problem in the future, we secured the services of an intellectual property firm and learned to do all our homework.

Another example: George Clayton Johnson wrote "Rock-A-Bye Baby--Or Die!" way back during TOS. When Gene Coon didn't want to produce it, Johnson actually bought his script back from Trek. So he owns it outright--which is one reason why we're considering doing it. Johnson has been involved in updating the script for our Phase II series.

Another example: the estate of the late Shirley S. Maiewski actually approached us to produce her fanfiction story for "Mind Sifter." So we've been talking with the estate and things are looking good. More on that if and when it develops.

As I've said before: we get to play in Paramount/CBS's Trek sandbox purely because of their goodwill. They could shut all of us down tomorrow if they were so inclined. We know there's a line somewhere that we shouldn't cross; not knowing exactly where that line is, we always try to as far away from where we think that line might be--not dance as close to it as we can. So we always make sure we are not breaking contracts, make sure we stay in compliance with SAG and OSHA rules, keep the WGA happy, fill out permits when we do location shoots, and so on. Even fan productions are not for the faint of heart--and the greater the visibility and success of a production, the greater the target it becomes.

Of course, the fact that we make not a dime on any of our productions is a level of protection as well. If someone feels they have been wronged and seeks to recover what he or she feels is that person's legitimate portion of the money we make from our series, that party will probably find that even if they collect 100% of what we bring in, 100% of $0.00 is probably not worth the trouble of a lawsuit. Also, with, I believe, a three year legal sttatue of limitations, there is a small window for folks to raise legal objections. Our use of (arguably) Harlan Ellison's "Guardian of Forever" in "In Harm's Way" not only netted us $0.00, it has now also been longer than three years since it's release. (All this certainly doesn't consitute the sole basis of our legal strategy, however. But they are factors that shouldn't be discounted.)

All in all, it's a bit of a comfort to me to know that all your concerns you've been expressing are all things we do indeed already take into account and thoroughly address in our productions.
 
There is starting to be a split in the fan films now if you ask me... and the Phase II crew are at the head of that class.

They've almost gone "semi-pro".
 
I think we at Phase II can't really afford to move on to a different looking Star Trek from the one we've been doing.
No they should not move on.
There are still stories to tell on the NCC-1701 TOS Enterprise and I'd like to see the stories from comic books and novels adapted to be used in their format.

If they wanted to explore new worlds the use of a tool called a greenscreen and chromakeying allows them to use a virtual set with live-action.
CGI effects with the help of talented individuals making CG models and or renders would allow them to use ships not seen before or rarely seen.

Any thing touched by the actors would have to be built like steps or handrails like in Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow (2004) which was shot mostly using these techniques.
and this:
http://www.cinemablend.com/televisi...reen-Screens-Of-Sci-Fi-s-Sanctuary-12491.html
 
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I can't imagine why this question ought to have been asked in the first place.

As long as the people who create it and watch it still enjoy it, why the heck should they "move on"?
 
There is starting to be a split in the fan films now if you ask me... and the Phase II crew are at the head of that class.

They've almost gone "semi-pro".

As far as I can work out, the split is something like this:

The Class
Everybody except Phase II (including my own Star Trek: Excelsior)

The Class For Kids Who Skipped Two Grades and Have (Fondly) Left All Their Childhood Friends Behind
Phase II

The distinction is so sharp it hardly bears further comment. There are parts of PII I love and (a few) parts that I hate, but the staggering complexity, finances, staffing, star power, and ambition behind PII put it unquestionably in a different division from the rest of us.

Huh. I didn't mean to gush. Sorry.
 
There is starting to be a split in the fan films now if you ask me... and the Phase II crew are at the head of that class.

They've almost gone "semi-pro".

As far as I can work out, the split is something like this:

The Class
Everybody except Phase II (including my own Star Trek: Excelsior)

The Class For Kids Who Skipped Two Grades and Have (Fondly) Left All Their Childhood Friends Behind
Phase II

The distinction is so sharp it hardly bears further comment. There are parts of PII I love and (a few) parts that I hate, but the staggering complexity, finances, staffing, star power, and ambition behind PII put it unquestionably in a different division from the rest of us.

Huh. I didn't mean to gush. Sorry.

Well, we can't fix it if we don't know what's wrong. What few parts do you hate about our productions? It might be something we can address.
 
Well, we can't fix it if we don't know what's wrong. What few parts do you hate about our productions? It might be something we can address.

Maybe telling the truth about James getting rid of Jeff Quinn, John Lim, Andy Bray, Julienne Irons, Leslie Hoffman and Ben Tolpin? And do not say they moved on with their careers or were not available for the upcoming episode. That would not make sense because there would be no reason for James to banned some of these actors from the STNV Forum and remove their pictures from the Cast & Crew page.
 
Well, we can't fix it if we don't know what's wrong. What few parts do you hate about our productions? It might be something we can address.

Maybe telling the truth about James getting rid of Jeff Quinn, John Lim, Andy Bray, Julienne Irons, Leslie Hoffman and Ben Tolpin? And do not say they moved on with their careers or were not available for the upcoming episode. That would not make sense because there would be no reason for James to banned some of these actors from the STNV Forum and remove their pictures from the Cast & Crew page.

Meh. That's just behind the scenes yadda yadda yadda political stuff. No fans of our product really care about that stuff. If they do, they shouldn't. They should put their eyes back on the prize. The only people I've ever heard express any real interest in such things are disgruntled ex-Phase II'ers.

In any employment situation, when an employee leaves, the employer should never discuss the nature of the employee's departure. It's disrespectful, inappropriate, and just isn't classy. From a Labor Board standpoint, it's probably illegal, too. In truth, it's difficult to get people to commit year after year to a two week shoot (or multiple two-week shoots) with little to no compensation, so we are resigned to the notion that we are going to lose volunteers in all kinds of capacities in our productions--not just the most visible cast.

You might want to know more of the Human Resources details about these good staff people, but we really can't discuss their individually different stories--even if it's to defend ourselves against false allegations. But we wish them well in their careers, and we are proud of their involvement in our series. We are all the stronger for their prior involvement.
 
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Maybe telling the truth about James getting rid of Jeff Quinn, John Lim, Andy Bray, Julienne Irons, Leslie Hoffman and Ben Tolpin? And do not say they moved on with their careers or were not available for the upcoming episode. That would not make sense because there would be no reason for James to banned some of these actors from the STNV Forum and remove their pictures from the Cast & Crew page.
I'm beginning to question your reason(s) for being here. :vulcan:
 
Maybe telling the truth about James getting rid of Jeff Quinn, John Lim, Andy Bray, Julienne Irons, Leslie Hoffman and Ben Tolpin? And do not say they moved on with their careers or were not available for the upcoming episode. That would not make sense because there would be no reason for James to banned some of these actors from the STNV Forum and remove their pictures from the Cast & Crew page.
I'm beginning to question your reason(s) for being here. :vulcan:

To your planet, welcome. :lol:
 
Maybe telling the truth about James getting rid of Jeff Quinn, John Lim, Andy Bray, Julienne Irons, Leslie Hoffman and Ben Tolpin? And do not say they moved on with their careers or were not available for the upcoming episode. That would not make sense because there would be no reason for James to banned some of these actors from the STNV Forum and remove their pictures from the Cast & Crew page.
I'm beginning to question your reason(s) for being here. :vulcan:

To your planet, welcome. :lol:
:guffaw:Nice shot Dennis.
 
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