so, do they know about the Rommies now?

[Temis the Vorta]

At this point in the original timeline, Starfleet has no idea the Romulans and Vulcans are related. And either the Vulcans don't know, or some do and aren't saying.

So in the JJ timeline - is the jig up? Didn't the writers crop Nero's ears specifically for the purpose of keeping the secret plausible? (And what was the in-story explanation for his ears? I don't recall that they were ever mentioned.) Plus, pointy ears are hardly unique to Vulcans among alien species so the Romulans really didn't look so Vulcan-like that anyone would immediately see the connection, that is, if they noticed anyone's ears while they were all busy fighting for their lives.

But Uhura did note the similarities between Vulcan and Romulan languages. Is that confirmation that the secret has long since been exposed (perhaps because of the original attack on the day Kirk was born)?

 

[indranee]

yeah they do. but in THIS timeline. the ear-crop thing... dunno where that came from. but it's obvious from Kirk's dialogue right during that hypospray scene that he knew these are Romulans.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Nero's missing part of an ear - the rest of the Romulans have pointed ears (as did Nero when he first encountered the Kelvin). That Nero's missing ear had something to do with hiding his resemblance to a Vulcan was speculation.

They know all about the Romulans and Vulcans.

 

[M'Sharak]

At this point in the original timeline, Starfleet has no idea the Romulans and Vulcans are related. And either the Vulcans don't know, or some do and aren't saying.

So in the JJ timeline - is the jig up? Didn't the writers crop Nero's ears specifically for the purpose of keeping the secret plausible? (And what was the in-story explanation for his ears? I don't recall that they were ever mentioned.) Plus, pointy ears are hardly unique to Vulcans among alien species so the Romulans really didn't look so Vulcan-like that anyone would immediately see the connection, that is, if they noticed anyone's ears while they were all busy fighting for their lives.

But Uhura did note the similarities between Vulcan and Romulan languages. Is that confirmation that the secret has long since been exposed (perhaps because of the original attack on the day Kirk was born)?

Spock says to Kirk before they beam to the Narada that he's an obvious choice for the mission because he is similar in appearance to the Romulans. Of course, that point becomes moot before they even finish materializing, but it's clear that "they do know about the Rommies now".

 

[pookha]

the explanation that makes the most sense is that nero was speaking romulan and the ut translated it into stanard.
so that when they checked the comunication and other logs and sensor readings; later they saw similarity between the narada's crew and romulans.

you even see the kelvin crew carrying boxes which might contain the actual ship logs ect..

plus they could have downloaded info into the shuttle computers.

 

[indranee]

right, but even earlier (as I posted), Kirk with his "numb tongue" says to Uhura "Wolmun! Wolmun!"

Uhura interprets easily. "Romulan?"

 

[pookha]

right, but even earlier (as I posted), Kirk with his "numb tongue" says to Uhura "Wolmun! Wolmun!"

Uhura interprets easily. "Romulan?"

didnt pike note it was a romulan ship that attacked kelvin,
which is why i suspect the infor came from the kelvin logs ect

i need to check and see what orci said.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

right, but even earlier (as I posted), Kirk with his "numb tongue" says to Uhura "Wolmun! Wolmun!"

Uhura interprets easily. "Romulan?"

But my question is, do they know the aliens they call "Romulans" are the descendants of long-ago emigrants from Vulcan? Sounds like we can infer that - why else would Spock look like them? - but I don't recall any definitive confirmation.

I don't even recall Old Spock telling Kirk anything along those lines in the mind-meld. Spock just went off to help some aliens called "Romulans" whose planet was going to be destroyed. They didn't necessarily have to be related to Vulcans for Spock to do that.

The importance of this is the motivation of the rest of the Romulans - that they are still bitter about the existence of Vulcans and their philosophy that is opposed to them. Now that the Vulcans have been whalloped, they're sitting ducks for a Romulan attack that has nothing to do with the whole Romulus-being-destroyed-in-the-future motivation.

Without the Vulcan-Romulan connection, there's a big chunk of understanding their motivation that isn't clear, and it would be harder for Starfleet to predict their actions. At the very least, Old Spock knows the truth.

The other important factor is knowing that Romulans are not just some lost colony of Vulcan, but specifically are the anti-Surak dissenters who left 2000 years ago. That's the motivating factor that makes them specifically a threat to the Federation, because Vulcan is in the Federation. Without that piece of info, Starfleet is going to continue to underestimate the threat and not see how the situation the Vulcans are now in could precipitate an attack to finish them off.

 

[indranee]

oh, I see where you're going with that.

I guess I took that to mean yes when Spock said to Kirk about he being the logical choice to go over (so to speak). this is actually spelled out succintly in the book.

pookha, if you find an Orci quote, please let us know. I sort of surmised that the Kelvin logs would be there for the Feds to know.

I sometimes wish Orci would haunt our board like he haunts trekmovie. we've got questions for you, Roberto!

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Since in TOS the entire lineage of the Romulans was quickly inferred by Spock from one look at them in "Balance Of Terror", and within a few years was a given ("The Enterprise Incident") in dealing with them, we can fairly assume that in the new continuity the Federation knows at least as much about them.

 

[Eric Cheung]

Interestingly if Starfleet knows about the Romulans, the original Romulans from "Balance of Terror" in this timeline don't know nearly as much about Starfleet and Earth. It's possible the people on that ship, and perhaps even the whole Romulan Empire, haven't been watching their news and will still try to attack the Federation outposts, unaware that Starfleet has an intelligence advantage.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Since in TOS the entire lineage of the Romulans was quickly inferred by Spock from one look at them in "Balance Of Terror", and within a few years was a given ("The Enterprise Incident") in dealing with them, we can fairly assume that in the new continuity the Federation knows at least as much about them.

I've always took that as confirmation that Spock - and I'm sure a lot of other Vulcans too - suspected the anti-Surak crowd didn't die in the far, cold reaches of space, and had been waiting for them to turn up sooner or later. But that nobody saw fit to inform their human allies of the situation because that would mean admitting they suspected something about Earth's foes in the Earth-Romulan War that they never told their allies about (probably because they figured humans would be too emotional to handle it well).

I guess I took that to mean yes when Spock said to Kirk about he being the logical choice to go over (so to speak). this is actually spelled out succintly in the book.

I'm just talking about in-the-movie scenes. And when would Starfleet have learned about the connection between the Romulans and the anti-Surak crowd? The incident in which Kirk Sr. died wouldn't have given them that information - the topic never remotely was raised.

Maybe when the Vulcans were given information about the Romulans' looks (Nero's, really) from that attack, they made the "logical" inference and finally fessed up what they probably suspected for a long time.

Or, maybe there was no connection made. Kirk just noticed, "hey those weird aliens look like you, Spock." That could be because they're a lost Vulcanoid colony or a coincidence. Doesn't really mean Starfleet is clued in to the whole story.

 

[Basil]

I never understood all the fuss about confusing Vulcans with Romulans anyway -- after all, look at all the caucasian aliens they ran into throughout the various series where there was no confusion about who was from Earth. Put them in a different uniform, have them speak in a stylized way,and that would have seemed enough for us to keep it straight.

 

[Neumann]

Maybe starfleet intelligence made summed the Fed council and asked the vulcans about it dear Temis :-)

 

[pookha]

you take how the narada's crew looked plus the communication logs that connects them with the romulans and the already close connection between the vulcan and romulan language and well the jig is up.
and i just dont buy no one knew what a romulan looked like.
i suspect it would have made more sesne that an agreement was made during and after the romulan war to cover up the connection between romulans and vulcans.

i suspect those would have been delicate times and it might have been considered best if the fact that the romulans were these over emotional not being kept in controlled with logic cousines not be generally known.

because i dont see how you dont find out considering some bodies would have been spaced during battles.

as for how the romulans react to the whole nero affair.

some things to keep in minds.
some of the romulans of that period seem to be fascinated with vulcans.
see the commander from enterprise incident.
from balance of terror we learn that in the period before balance of terror the empire has been having constant conflicts with some one.
either from within or another race on the other side of romulan space is unknown.
just that the romulan commander is already weary of conflict.

and now they have a pissed off federation who may have increased their tech level with data from the scans of the narada.

and it is possible knowing that one of their own destroyed vulcan out of unbridled
revenge lust ... that type of thing feared in the past by surak and his followers
might just go through a societal shift.

 

[Prons]

Of course they know about them. Kirk and Uhura knew about them, Spock knew about their connection to the vulcans, etc. etc.

 

[Jeri]

BobOrci: Survivors and telemetry from the Kelvin exposed the federation to Romulans earlier than would’ve occurred otherwise.

Everyone should read the Orci Q&A.

There will be more Q&A's, according to the article.

 

[indranee]

BobOrci: Survivors and telemetry from the Kelvin exposed the federation to Romulans earlier than would’ve occurred otherwise.

Everyone should read the Orci Q&A.

There will be more Q&A's, according to the article.

I'm reading.. I'm reading!

 

[Locutus of Bored]

But my question is, do they know the aliens they call "Romulans" are the descendants of long-ago emigrants from Vulcan? Sounds like we can infer that - why else would Spock look like them? - but I don't recall any definitive confirmation.

I don't even recall Old Spock telling Kirk anything along those lines in the mind-meld. Spock just went off to help some aliens called "Romulans" whose planet was going to be destroyed. They didn't necessarily have to be related to Vulcans for Spock to do that.

Young Spock said in the movie "Romulans and Vulcan share a common ancestry..." I think it's safe to assume the Vulcans know the history of the Romulans from up to 2,000 years ago, then during the Romulan War, and again after the Kelvin attack.

 

[Nick Ryder]

Although given what we know of the Vulcans from the 22nd Century they were pretty close to the vest in terms of "state secrets". So its possible after the Narada attack, the Federation went to them and told them "Look cut the bullshit and just tell us about the Romulans. Archer encountered them once or twice but we've got just a name and some vague ship designs. We need more. Don't make me tell you a story about a gazelle."