Is there a hole in your mind?

[Zulu Romeo]

We're always aware of the things we do, even if it isn't exact details. We know what we were doing at a certain time of day on any given day, and sometimes some people can even recall the exact things they did to the last detail. But has there ever been a moment in your life where you cannot at all recall where you were and had no idea what you were doing? In other words, is there indeed "a hole in your mind"?

Of course, there are moments when we cannot recall what we were doing at all, but we can state that at the time we were either drunk, under the influence of other recreational mind-altering substances, or asleep and/or somnambulating.

Thinking about this deeply, I actually remember one moment in my childhood where I cannot recall at all what happened. It was a very sunny summer's evening, a Sunday, and I was about 7 or so. I recall walking around my house, looking around my own room, then my big sister's room, then my parents' room. I recall it was very hot and stuffy and the sunlight was pouring into the rooms. Immediately afterwards, I had absolutely no idea what happened next. I think I might have passed out, but then again I would have remembered passing out. The next thing I do remember was waking up the following day, getting ready for school. To this day I have no idea what happened to me.

Anyone else have moments in their lives that remain unaccountable?

 

[Daedalus12]

There are many little holes in my mind coinciding with the time of week around 3 am Saturday morning.

 

[An Officer]

There are entire years I cannot account for. Surely no one remembers every minute of everyday.

 

[kustirider2]

I can remember days from when I was 3-4 years old, but then sometimes I can't remember what I did yesterday.

 

[Squiggy]

I don't remember anything prior to October 26, 1983. Brain injury.

 

[Holdfast]

I don't remember anything prior to October 26, 1983. Brain injury.

I have photographic evidence. It's pretty incriminating.

I take all major credit cards & paypal.

 

[Jadzia]

I don't think you mean comprehensive completeness of your long term memory do you? Or even detail particularly? I think you mean having some sort of recollection of the past day or past few hours, and if you have no recollection of that time, then you find that curious and a memory of that gap remains with you for years.

In which case, no I don't I have any memories like that.

The only real mental lapse I've had was one day several years ago when I was walking to the shops and as I came to a junction I couldn't decide which way to go for some reason. Then I realised I didn't know where I was going, and I had to stop and think for a few seconds, having to resort to looking through what I had with me .. my bag, my money, some carrier bags. All familiar things, but they didn't make any sense. It was scary, and even though it was an isolated experience, lasting only about 60 seconds, I hope I never have anything like that again.

 

[Zulu Romeo]

I don't think you mean comprehensive completeness of your long term memory do you? Or even detail particularly? I think you mean having some sort of recollection of the past day or past few hours, and if you have no recollection of that time, then you find that curious and a memory of that gap remains with you for years.

That's exactly what I mean. A gap in one's memory or account in one's day that can't even be accounted for by drink, sleep, or mind-altering drugs. I mean, I don't myself recall precisely what I was doing at 11.36am last Saturday, but I do remember I was at home watching TV and planning my day.

 

[Holdfast]

ZR, is there a hole in your mind where your neuroscience lectures should be?

Memory gaps like these are perfectly common & understandable. Memories are laid down best with active attention, association and repetition. Given that most of our daily life is done on 95% autopilot with minimal real novelty, it's not surprising there are vast frequent gaps in our memory record. With concentration, we might recall some of it, but still, there will be massive chunks missing that we just won't recall. No Data-esque total recall for us!

Your Saturday morning example is a classic example of this phenomenon - you say you remember that you were home watching TV & planning your day, but from what you say, it's unlikely that's really true. What you "remember" about that time is more of a processing of what you WOULD logically have been doing based on prior or subsequent things that you DO remember more clearly (and which isn't being counteracted by a contradictory memory).

What I mean, is that you might clearly remember waking up that Saturday, or watching Saturday Kitchen, or later deciding to go shopping or later leaving the house, and you're interpolating those ACTUAL memories to create a "memory" that you must have been at home watching TV and planning your day. In fact, you don't remember anything of the sort, as you've said. Your brain has filled in the memory gap with a plausible explanation, treating memory gaps in much the same way it deals within perceptual gaps.

 

[Lindley]

I don't remember anything prior to October 26, 1983. Brain injury.

Well, I don't remember anything prior to March 27th of that year.

Birth.

 

[TheWifeOfBrian]

The only real mental lapse I've had was one day several years ago when I was walking to the shops and as I came to a junction I couldn't decide which way to go for some reason. Then I realised I didn't know where I was going, and I had to stop and think for a few seconds, having to resort to looking through what I had with me .. my bag, my money, some carrier bags. All familiar things, but they didn't make any sense. It was scary, and even though it was an isolated experience, lasting only about 60 seconds, I hope I never have anything like that again.

...Her Majesty's Secret Service thanks you for your efforts. You should have seen the look on *deleted*'s face when you blew up his *deleted*, sank his *deleted* AND blew up his secret base under below the island of *deleted*.

 

[Zulu Romeo]

ZR, is there a hole in your mind where your neuroscience lectures should be?

Yes. It's filled with gynaecology.

Memory gaps like these are perfectly common & understandable. Memories are laid down best with active attention, association and repetition. Given that most of our daily life is done on 95% autopilot with minimal real novelty, it's not surprising there are vast frequent gaps in our memory record. With concentration, we might recall some of it, but still, there will be massive chunks missing that we just won't recall. No Data-esque total recall for us!

Your Saturday morning example is a classic example of this phenomenon - you say you remember that you were home watching TV & planning your day, but from what you say, it's unlikely that's really true. What you "remember" about that time is more of a processing of what you WOULD logically have been doing based on prior or subsequent things that you DO remember more clearly (and which isn't being counteracted by a contradictory memory).

What I mean, is that you might clearly remember waking up that Saturday, or watching Saturday Kitchen, or later deciding to go shopping or later leaving the house, and you're interpolating those ACTUAL memories to create a "memory" that you must have been at home watching TV and planning your day. In fact, you don't remember anything of the sort, as you've said. Your brain has filled in the memory gap with a plausible explanation, treating memory gaps in much the same way it deals within perceptual gaps.

That is true - I could account for where I was at that time. But in the example I mentioned in my first post, I had no plausible explanation for what happened, yet it was a specific episode in my life. I don't even remember going to bed that day. This is what makes it different to the other examples.

 

[Holdfast]

^ I'm not convinced it is. I mean, first of all, you were 7 at the time, so the ability to retrieve trivial, unimportant (in the sense of not being associated with something meaningful to you on some level) memories from back then would have faded severely anyway. Secondly, you do remember what you were doign before and after, it's just the gap is a bit longer (hours) than the Saturday example (minutes). Only the timeframe is different, not the underlying nature of the episode as far as I can make out from the info you've given us, and that can be accounted for my the relative temporal displacement from today, combined with lack of frequent retrieval in the interim, weakening your ability to retrieve the memory from LTS (assuming it hasn't degraded there too). Also, and my own memory is hazy on this, but I think there's a suggestion that a strong emotional memory can displace other weaker nearby memories in terms of retrieval ease. So if the discomfort associated with the hot stuffiness was particularly vivid it might be overwhelming more mundane memories of the day at this extended distance. As I say, I'm not sure if this theory is real or just a trick of my own memory and it's a theory of my own...

Of course, you might just have actually passed out for real!

If you're really curious, you could try hypnotic regression to investigate it further, but that field is notoriously unreliable in several respects.

 

[Smiley]

I can't remember anything between July 23, 2002, and the present moment. In fact, I can't remember what I typed 20 minutes ago unless I take a Polaroid.

(Sorry, just watched Memento, couldn't resist)

 

[Michael Chris]

Whoah, it sounds like you have an exceptional memory. I can barely remember what I did yesterday. Seriously.

 

[Zulu Romeo]

^ I'm not convinced it is. I mean, first of all, you were 7 at the time, so the ability to retrieve trivial, unimportant (in the sense of not being associated with something meaningful to you on some level) memories from back then would have faded severely anyway.

It's actually something that's been nagging me for some time (several years in fact), but something I've not really wanted to talk about until recently. In that respect it's an episode which leaves a not insignificant gap in my timeline that has remained unaccountable for years and has often left me wondering what really happened all those years ago.

Secondly, you do remember what you were doign before and after, it's just the gap is a bit longer (hours) than the Saturday example (minutes). Only the timeframe is different, not the underlying nature of the episode as far as I can make out from the info you've given us, and that can be accounted for my the relative temporal displacement from today, combined with lack of frequent retrieval in the interim, weakening your ability to retrieve the memory from LTS (assuming it hasn't degraded there too).

I don't remember the exact moments of falling asleep, but I do recall that each day I do go to bed (or somewhere else) and fall asleep. It doesn't explain how at one point I was walking around the upstairs of my house in the early evening, and the next moment I woke up in my own bed. Unless of course my parents found me on the floor asleep and put me to bed.

Also, and my own memory is hazy on this, but I think there's a suggestion that a strong emotional memory can displace other weaker nearby memories in terms of retrieval ease. So if the discomfort associated with the hot stuffiness was particularly vivid it might be overwhelming more mundane memories of the day at this extended distance. As I say, I'm not sure if this theory is real or just a trick of my own memory and it's a theory of my own...

You might be onto something here, Doc. Come to think about it, I did feel somewhat emotional at that time - almost an intense feeling of being at peace with the whole world.

Of course, you might just have actually passed out for real!

And if I did, the fact I wasn't sent to hospital straight away is somewhat worrying...

If you're really curious, you could try hypnotic regression to investigate it further, but that field is notoriously unreliable in several respects.

I've never seen a shrink before - I might try it one day, and several of my colleagues have even suggested it.... But I'm beginning to wonder if some people here on the TrekBBS find me neurotic all of a sudden... it makes me quite anxious thinking about it.

 

[Holdfast]

Everyone should see a shrink. Keep me rolling in the clover.

 

[kathryn i am]

The only real mental lapse I've had was one day several years ago when I was walking to the shops and as I came to a junction I couldn't decide which way to go for some reason. Then I realised I didn't know where I was going, and I had to stop and think for a few seconds, having to resort to looking through what I had with me .. my bag, my money, some carrier bags. All familiar things, but they didn't make any sense. It was scary, and even though it was an isolated experience, lasting only about 60 seconds, I hope I never have anything like that again.

This happens to me ALL THE TIME! I'll walk from my classroom to the office, and then just... stand there - no memory at all of why I'm there in the first place. Sometimes I twig, but other times I just end up leaving, feeling confused

 

[thestrangequark]

ZR, is there a hole in your mind where your neuroscience lectures should be?

You made me snort my tea! I remember writing an alliterative poem about my friend Sonia as she kept nodding off during one of our neuroscience lectures:
Sleepy Sonia suddenly set sail aboard her silvery steel sloop
Sluggishly steering said silvery sloop southward,
She sat staring sweetly at soaring seagulls as they swooped
Slowly Sonia's sloop swerved and swayed,
A sloth of a sea-faring steed
So soon Sonia snoozed and swooned in her slumber
Over a sexy Sicilian named Steve.
Now whenever some one mentions Sicily I think of neural pruning.

As for gaps, I have some that are very similar to what you're describing, Zion -- sometimes even more disconcerting and discomfiting. I've forgotten major events. Things I should remember.

 

[Lindley]

When the dentist put me under local anesthesia to have my wisdom teeth out, I'm told I was awake and responsive during the entire procedure, but I can't remember anything from the time I sat down in that chair until I was in the car on the way home.

This is, I'm told, a sign that the anesthesiologist did his job well. They're supposed to keep you below the memory threshold.

What this tells me is that there is such a threshold. If you're tired enough, you can technically be awake but be recording very little in the way of long-term memories.