Can anyone tell me why exactaly the rebels were against the EMPIRE? Was there any dialoge in episodes 4-6 that explain why?
Why were the rebels ''rebelling'' against the EMPIRE again?
- Thread starter miraclefan
- Start date
The primary reasons to my knowledge:
-Discrimination against non-human races
-Limited movement authorized by the Empire throughout their space
-Lack of freedom in general
-Discrimination against non-human races
-Limited movement authorized by the Empire throughout their space
-Lack of freedom in general
um cause their evil.Dark side of the force and all that other stuff like blowing planets up with the deathstar.
Yes, but was that explained in dialoge?
well duh I know that, but really what was there motovation before the death star? and why was the Empire blowing up planets to begin with? what was the endgame?
They were fighting to restore the Galactic Republic. Their official name was the Alliance to Restore the Republic.Yes, but was that explained in dialoge?
The Empire built the Death Star to force people to remain obedient through fear. If they made any trouble, the Death Star would show up and boom, no more planet.
-Tendency to blow up entire civilized worlds just to prove a point.
because George Lucas wanted to show that even a long time ago in a galaxy far away...people were still fighting!
Taxation as well. I know, it was the boring stuff in STI, the Phantom Menace. I think as the shows continue it's more about gaining freedom as the Empire was becoming oppressive and autocratic.
It's an organization whose law enforcement will blast mostly innocent Jawas and a farmboy's caretakers for no good reason on its quest for a couple of droids. It's got corruption and evil up to the very top. The movies do make it quite clear why people would want to oppose the Empire.
Taxation, I can understand that!
The Empire was blowing up planets because they were the bad guys. Don't overthink this. However much Lucas tried to add complexity in the prequels, the original trilogy aspired to be nothing more than a fairy tale in outer space. It was a tribute to the adventure serials of the '30s and '40s, and therefore it needed noble heroes and hissable villains. Why was Ming the Merciless so merciless? Because Flash Gordon needed a villain to fight. And the Empire was evil because Luke Skywalker needed a villain to fight.
Looking at it in-universe, though, the goal was to increase Palpatine's power. He was a power-crazed tyrant like Stalin or Pol Pot, someone who had no rational political objectives but simply wished to impose absolute rule through terror and brutality. The first film began with his dissolution of the Senate, solidifying his undisputed, monarchical rule over the galaxy. The Death Star was his weapon of terror to make his subjects too afraid to protest or resist his control. Any protest or resistance would be met with brutal and irresistible force. No planet's population would be willing to host rebels or dissidents for fear of being blown up. And thus the galaxy would be cowed into submission.
So the reason for the rebellion was to overthrow the Emperor's brutal tyranny and restore freedom and justice.
^Makes sense. But what happend AFTER they killed the emperor? and what about ALL those star destroyers that didn't go up in big explosions? did they just surrender to the rebellion?
No, it is actually not directly addressed in dialogue. We're shown a rebellion exists and that the Empire does some pretty hardcore things to those they consider enemies, but there's nothing actually in the body of the movie itself that communicates, "The Empire did really bad thing 'A' before the opening crawl, so the Rebels rebelled thusly." Events seen during the movie can't be used as the excuse for the Rebellion, unless cause and effect are reversed. It is to be assumed, based on the adjectives used to describe the Empire in the opening crawl and the potential power of the Death Star, that the Empire = Bad and the Rebels = Good, therefore, WAR!
The "evil Empire" has "sinister agents" and their Death Star possesses "enough power to destroy an entire planet." Why the Empire is evil, what makes these agents sinister or whether the Death Star has actually been used to destroy a planet are questions without answers...until you see the events of the movie, by which point the Rebellion is already in full swing.
I do find it curious that the simple possession of a weapon with enormous destructive capabilities (a WMD, as it were) is implied to be another mark on the Empire's Evilness Checklist. If the Rebel's had a Death Star, would they be slightly less Good, or would the Death Star simply cease to be evil?
As to the comment that there was "corruption and evil up to the very top" only a very few characters were shown to actually be objectively "evil" - Tarkin, Vader, Palpatine. And Motti's pretty bloodthirsty. These are the very top, but their subordinates did not appear particularly evil. They're pretty much all military men prosecuting a war against an openly declared enemy or rooting out traitors -and not falsely accused traitors, actual traitors. Leia and her entourage were all traitors to the Empire. They are Good because the Empire is Bad. If the opening crawl established the reverse, they wouldn't be valiant Rebels fighting an oppressive Empire, they'd be traitorous Rebels fighting a noble Empire.
A single squad of stormtroopers killed the Jawas, yes, but secrets vital to national security in a time of war had passed (unknowningly) through their little anything goes merchant hands, presumably heading for at least one Rebel agent. Without knowing the details of the event, I would categorize this under overly zealous and morally ambiguous. Luke's aunt and uncle were killed by the same group of stormtroopers on the same mission following the same secrets.
We don't actually know what happened during either event, only the end results: people died. Perhaps the Jawas violently resisted interrogation by the stormtrooper patrol and started a fight they couldn't win, a blaster went off and everyone opened fire. Perhaps the troopers realized they had over-reacted and tried to cover up what they'd done by blaming the Sand People. But then, why cover up the Jawa massacre and not the Lars'? The Jawas were just shot up and then Gaffi sticks and Bantha tracks were strewn around the scene. The Lars were burned down to skeletons and their home burned down next to them, no Gaffi sticks and one could presume, no false Bantha tracks.
Did the troopers harden from one event to the next? Did they feel the Lars' deaths were justified? Were they actually responding to a domestic dispute that went horribly wrong? Would the rest of Tatooine take more notice and be more outraged by the deaths of Jawa traders than Human farmers? Why would the Empire care? I thought they were an oppressive Evil which required rebellion. Rule through fear as Tarkin describes doesn't work when people fear someone else for things you've done. Cover up the deaths of a handful of Jawas but openly claim credit for the destruction of an entire world? Or did they dump a bunch of Gaffi sticks into the newly created Alderaan asteroid field and scratch some Bantha tracks on the bigger pieces of debris?
Descrimination against aliens? That's the EU, not the movies. The Rebels had three women, two black men, a single Asian man and maybe a dozen or so aliens, almost entirely of one other species (Mon Calamari) serving during the movies and most of those exceptions to the white guys only club were in ROTJ. Are they not sex-/race-/speciest because of these token appointments? A New Hope didn't show a single Rebel alien.
Limited movement? The Tantive IV was in receipt of stolen Imperial national secrets and carrying Rebel spies and resisted lawful boarding. The Millenium Falcon was unauthorized to leave a planet under limited blockade while a search for stolen national security secrets was conducted (Tatooine) and was detained upon recognition when it entered a system determined to be a Rebel stronghold (Alderaan). Which non-Rebel was limited in movement during the OT? Han, the known criminal aiding the Rebels? Lando, the known criminal harboring Rebels? Ewoks? The Empire ignored them until they attacked the garrison.
Lack of freedom in general? Where? Who? What freedoms of which non-Rebels were suppressed? Declared enemy combatants can have rights afforded them if there's an equivalent to realworld conventions of war in the GFFA, but enemies don't have freedoms to oppress.
The "evil Empire" has "sinister agents" and their Death Star possesses "enough power to destroy an entire planet." Why the Empire is evil, what makes these agents sinister or whether the Death Star has actually been used to destroy a planet are questions without answers...until you see the events of the movie, by which point the Rebellion is already in full swing.
I do find it curious that the simple possession of a weapon with enormous destructive capabilities (a WMD, as it were) is implied to be another mark on the Empire's Evilness Checklist. If the Rebel's had a Death Star, would they be slightly less Good, or would the Death Star simply cease to be evil?
As to the comment that there was "corruption and evil up to the very top" only a very few characters were shown to actually be objectively "evil" - Tarkin, Vader, Palpatine. And Motti's pretty bloodthirsty. These are the very top, but their subordinates did not appear particularly evil. They're pretty much all military men prosecuting a war against an openly declared enemy or rooting out traitors -and not falsely accused traitors, actual traitors. Leia and her entourage were all traitors to the Empire. They are Good because the Empire is Bad. If the opening crawl established the reverse, they wouldn't be valiant Rebels fighting an oppressive Empire, they'd be traitorous Rebels fighting a noble Empire.
A single squad of stormtroopers killed the Jawas, yes, but secrets vital to national security in a time of war had passed (unknowningly) through their little anything goes merchant hands, presumably heading for at least one Rebel agent. Without knowing the details of the event, I would categorize this under overly zealous and morally ambiguous. Luke's aunt and uncle were killed by the same group of stormtroopers on the same mission following the same secrets.
We don't actually know what happened during either event, only the end results: people died. Perhaps the Jawas violently resisted interrogation by the stormtrooper patrol and started a fight they couldn't win, a blaster went off and everyone opened fire. Perhaps the troopers realized they had over-reacted and tried to cover up what they'd done by blaming the Sand People. But then, why cover up the Jawa massacre and not the Lars'? The Jawas were just shot up and then Gaffi sticks and Bantha tracks were strewn around the scene. The Lars were burned down to skeletons and their home burned down next to them, no Gaffi sticks and one could presume, no false Bantha tracks.
Did the troopers harden from one event to the next? Did they feel the Lars' deaths were justified? Were they actually responding to a domestic dispute that went horribly wrong? Would the rest of Tatooine take more notice and be more outraged by the deaths of Jawa traders than Human farmers? Why would the Empire care? I thought they were an oppressive Evil which required rebellion. Rule through fear as Tarkin describes doesn't work when people fear someone else for things you've done. Cover up the deaths of a handful of Jawas but openly claim credit for the destruction of an entire world? Or did they dump a bunch of Gaffi sticks into the newly created Alderaan asteroid field and scratch some Bantha tracks on the bigger pieces of debris?
Descrimination against aliens? That's the EU, not the movies. The Rebels had three women, two black men, a single Asian man and maybe a dozen or so aliens, almost entirely of one other species (Mon Calamari) serving during the movies and most of those exceptions to the white guys only club were in ROTJ. Are they not sex-/race-/speciest because of these token appointments? A New Hope didn't show a single Rebel alien.
Limited movement? The Tantive IV was in receipt of stolen Imperial national secrets and carrying Rebel spies and resisted lawful boarding. The Millenium Falcon was unauthorized to leave a planet under limited blockade while a search for stolen national security secrets was conducted (Tatooine) and was detained upon recognition when it entered a system determined to be a Rebel stronghold (Alderaan). Which non-Rebel was limited in movement during the OT? Han, the known criminal aiding the Rebels? Lando, the known criminal harboring Rebels? Ewoks? The Empire ignored them until they attacked the garrison.
Lack of freedom in general? Where? Who? What freedoms of which non-Rebels were suppressed? Declared enemy combatants can have rights afforded them if there's an equivalent to realworld conventions of war in the GFFA, but enemies don't have freedoms to oppress.
Because the Rebs are American, and the Imperials are Brits!
No, though the discrimination part is heavily implied through there being no nonhuman Imperials.
The main problem is that Palpatine amassed all this power... but for what, exactly? History shows that dictators invariably make war, but, rebellion aside, there doesn't seem to be anyone for the Empire to fight. Which is where Christopher's injunction against overthinking comes in.
91 Reasons to Hate Revenge of the Sith
Reason #68
"You and I Can Rule the Galaxy"
It is more than clear that Anakin has flipped his lid when he declares that he can become powerful and overthrow the Chancellor and then he and Padme can rule the galaxy together. He tells her that, when they rule the galaxy, they can make things the way that they want them to be. The true treachery of the Sith is shown in this scene where Anakin is plotting to kill his master after being his apprentice for less than five hours. This is why the believability of the Sith ever having a master/apprentice relationship is difficult to grasp. Anakin's desire to have a "kickass husband-and-wife team" rule the galaxy is also pretty thin. Anakin only stops short of going into specifics: "You've got great fashion sense, so you could design all the different uniforms for our soldiers and I could lead them into battle. Think of how great they'll look when they're eliminating an entire planet for not agreeing with your interior design schemes!"
The Rebels wanted dental and eye added to the health insurance plan (though universal health care when it's the entire universe is just way to $$$$) and a tournament to determine the true college football champion. When the Empire suggested a soda tax and that all TV broadcasts switch from analog to digital, that was going too far and action had to be taken.
Checkmate
Commodore
As others have said, they were only "rebels" as decreed by the Empire itself. They, themselves, were people fighting to restore the rightful government, not to overthrow the current one.
The Empire was a government founded on lies and tyranny as clearly depicted in the prequel trilogy. By the time people really figured out what was going on, it was too late. The new government was firmly entrenched and had military dominance over most of the galaxy, ruling it as if it were a perpetual and unending police state. Not only did they do Really Bad Stuff(tm), but there's clear evidence that they were overtaxing the populace, forcing people to live in fear (hence all the Stormtroopers marching through even the more remote of worlds), taking part in slavery of entire worlds (most notably the Wookies), and so on and so forth.
Yes, it's a two-dimensional setting, but sometimes things don't have to be spelled out in dialogue in order to be painfully obvious.
The Empire was a government founded on lies and tyranny as clearly depicted in the prequel trilogy. By the time people really figured out what was going on, it was too late. The new government was firmly entrenched and had military dominance over most of the galaxy, ruling it as if it were a perpetual and unending police state. Not only did they do Really Bad Stuff(tm), but there's clear evidence that they were overtaxing the populace, forcing people to live in fear (hence all the Stormtroopers marching through even the more remote of worlds), taking part in slavery of entire worlds (most notably the Wookies), and so on and so forth.
Yes, it's a two-dimensional setting, but sometimes things don't have to be spelled out in dialogue in order to be painfully obvious.
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