World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

[Ayelbourne]

* Incidentally, does anyone have a clue as to what the population of Vulcan is, at this or any other time? Is it large? Are they not a numerous people? Has it ever been stated, generally or explicitly how many Vulcans there are at any given time?

I don't know, but I'm pretty sure that there are a lot of Vulcans living offworld, working on spaceships or living on some colonies.

I wouldn't even consider them to be an endangered species. Even if only around 50,000 of them would survive, it'll be more than enough to rebuild their civilization.

I mean, they're part of the Fedaration. These aren't the Colonials from nuBSG. They have friends and allies and many planets to go to. They'll be alright. Physically, at least.

 

[indranee]

An epic is one big sprawling story with a big wide scope and enoromous setting.

"The Iliad" is an epic.

"Lawrence of Arabia" is an epic.

"Doctor Zhivago" is an epic.

"Star Wars" is an epic.

"Star Trek" is not an epic!

"Star Trek" is a collection of stories, some epic, some intimate, some deathly serious, some borderline slapstick.

And it is this fundamental misunderstanding of Star Trek, starting with the various pinheads who have held the position of chairman of Paramount Studios, that have resulted in Star Trek being so badly mishandled over the years, especially with regard to the movies, and their idiotic attempts to turn Star Trek into Star Wars.

Well, it looks like they've finally succeeded. Star Trek, at least as far as the movie side is concerned, has now been forced into the dumbed-down, explodapalooza mold that in previous years it managed to avoid.

Enjoy your new version of Star Trek. It won't last.

Awww QQ...

Somebody needs a hug!

good one

epic is as epic does. Trek is an American Epic. period. whether you like it or not, it has all the earmarks of the genre AND all the drawbacks.

denying it -- and throwing an internet hissy fit -- just because your "alter ego" has been denied entry in nuTrek won't cut it much. Robert April was pretty much fanon, nothing more. it's time to accept reality.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

^The only reason you hyenas are laughing is because it isn't your ox that's being gored.

I'm NOT an XI hater. I will watch the film and judge it on it's merits, understanding this is an alternate timeline.

But to have an alternate timeline, you have to have an original timeline. That timeline gave us 40 years of Trek, and brought us to this point. To see people that call themselves "Trek fans" so willing to utterly dismiss it, indeed, to turn on it like jackals on a wounded buffalo, is not just sad, but sickening.

 

[indranee]

^The only reason you hyenas are laughing is because it isn't your ox that's being gored.

what do you mean? please explain yourself. oh, and stop being so goddamned melodramatic, willya?!

geez.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

^The only reason you hyenas are laughing is because it isn't your ox that's being gored.

what do you mean? please explain yourself. oh, and stop being so goddamned melodramatic, willya?!

geez.

Meaning I'm tired of all the "old school fan" bashing. I'm tired of people who refer to Old School Fans as "delusional", "40 year old basement dwelling virgins", et al.

They have a right to their opinion, and to not be mocked for it.

 

[indranee]

I am an "old school fan", dude.

born in January, 1964... WITH STAR TREK.

stop the fucking whining and grow the hell up.

 

[Dac]

^The only reason you hyenas are laughing is because it isn't your ox that's being gored.

what do you mean? please explain yourself. oh, and stop being so goddamned melodramatic, willya?!

geez.

Meaning I'm tired of all the "old school fan" bashing. I'm tired of people who refer to Old School Fans as "delusional", "40 year old basement dwelling virgins", et al.

They have a right to their opinion, and to not be mocked for it.

I'd just like to say, although I was born in 1989, my earliest memory is the original Enterprise shooting towards me from a TV screen.

I LOVE Star Trek, I really do. But saying this movie ignores the original timeline and story and pisses all over it is ridiculous, especially coming from someone who hasn't even seen the film. Old Spock makes it quite clear that things are not what they should be, and that the Universe has been altered. Its just theres no way back for Old Spock, so it would be illogical to constantly remind the characters - and by extension the audience - that this isnt how it was "supposed" to be.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Meaning I'm tired of all the "old school fan" bashing. I'm tired of people who refer to Old School Fans as "delusional", "40 year old basement dwelling virgins", et al.

I'm also an "old school fan." I started watching Star Trek when I was two, sometime in 1978. Played with the Mego action figures. Went to all of the movies. Shatner and Kirk were my childhood idols, alongside Superman. I begged and begged for my parents to have a TOS uniform made for me, and they did or the best approximation of one based on nothing but photographs.

Star Trek, the original, make no mistake, is and will forever be my favorite television series. Period. Something in me from childhood is sparked whenever I hear those first three cords of Sandy Courage's theme. And I'm looking forward to this movie.

Why?

Because it looks like fun. Something it hasn't been in a long time, lost in the pretentious sophistry of "the human condition" and "Utopian future."

I've said it before and I'll say it again, as long as it is a good story with compelling characters that I give a shit about then I could care less about the rest, whether or not it fits some boxed-in concept of Star Trek.

Canon. Oh, yeah and the most ludicrous of them all, "visual canon." Fanon. Captain April. Some silly throwaway line in any given episode.

A well-told, entertaining, fun adventure story. That's what I want out of Trek. But just to be contradictory, because I am human, I also want a thoughtful Trek story as well so long as it doesn't sacrifice the space adventure/drama aspect of its initial concept.

They have a right to their opinion, and to not be mocked for it.

Yes, they have a right to their opinion. Hell I can get behind warped9. At least he is willing to debate his position rather than falling back on a bunch of non-sequitors.

But the "old school" also mock those of us who are willing to go see nuTrek with the hope that it is a good, nay a great film.

Moreover, what gets mocked more times than not, imao, is the fact that these "old skool" fans are so dogmatic in their opinion of Star Trek and hyperbolic in their perceived slight from a single motion picture.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

^The only reason you hyenas are laughing is because it isn't your ox that's being gored.

what do you mean? please explain yourself. oh, and stop being so goddamned melodramatic, willya?!

geez.

Oh, it's always "wait 'til it happens to you."

When the oldBSG fans were pitching their hissy fits about Moore's version, they used to say to those of us who identified ourselves as Trek fans "oh, if some producer violated your precious canon and rebooted Star Trek you'd be singing a different tune."

Uh, no. What they didn't get - and don't get - is that not everyone is inclined to be histrionic and defensive about our enthusiams, whether it's something we like or something that someone else does.

Been a fan since September of 1966. It is my Star Trek that Abrams is doing this with. I'm enjoying everything I see, so far.

 

[Augustus]

I don't understand the "original fans" that are so close-minded about this movie. I grew up watching Next Generation and the other series as brand new shows. I watched reruns of TOS... so I am no new fan, but why the angst towards the movie?? I will never understand.

Star Trek, the original timeline is gone, Paramount which relies on making money, can't make money with the original timeline... but it hopes it can take the ideas and characters and create something that can last into the 21st Century.
Do we really want new Trek to be a thing of the past.
DO we really want Star Trek 1966-2005?? or Star Trek: 1966-Present.... ;

 

[darkwing_duck1]

I am an "old school fan", dude.

born in January, 1964... WITH STAR TREK.

And that gives you the right to bash a fellow OS fan?

That gives you the right to bash at all?

stop the fucking whining and grow the hell up.

Thank you for once again proving my point by taking it personal, and trying to shout me down.

 

[indranee]

I'm not "bashing" you. I know where you're coming from. I am not immune to the nostalgia. but I'm telling you to sit up straight and pay attention. life is happening around you, darkwing. Star Trek is about the future and we're going there. right now.

either get on the ship, or lie down on the docks and keep throwing your tantrums.

your choice.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

I'm not "bashing" you. I know where you're coming from. I am not immune to the nostalgia. but I'm telling you to sit up straight and pay attention. life is happening around you, darkwing. Star Trek is about the future and we're going there. right now.

either get on the ship, or lie down on the docks and keep throwing your tantrums.

your choice.

"They have eyes but do not see, ears but do not hear..."

"Throwing your tantrums" indeed...that's REALLY respectful to your fellow fans.

 

[indranee]

respect?! do you even know what the word means?

I read your posts, you know, darkwing. you don't fool me.

fine. have it your way. I'm sure you'll be fine.

 

[Kruge]

Yeah, but the Shatnerian delivery is so much funnier...I know that in that scene, Kirk is barely out of the womb, but still...the inexplicable pauses, the short gasps of air at the end of sentences, the very Canadian pronunciation of "sabotage"

Sniff...the world I grew up in is gone

 

[M'Sharak]

I am an "old school fan", dude.

born in January, 1964... WITH STAR TREK.

And that gives you the right to bash a fellow OS fan?

That gives you the right to bash at all?

stop the fucking whining and grow the hell up.

Thank you for once again proving my point by taking it personal, and trying to shout me down.

No, you were the one who insisted on taking it personally. Speaking as an old-school (watched it in the original run) fan myself, I'm beginning to get a little weary of those who claim age as some sort of mark of moral superiority over others and take any criticism of the original series as an attack upon their own person. I'm getting equally tired of the repeated harangue that this film somehow invalidates the Original Series or any of the rest.

Consider the sort of hyperbole on display here:

^The only reason you hyenas are laughing is because it isn't your ox that's being gored.

I'm NOT an XI hater. I will watch the film and judge it on it's merits, understanding this is an alternate timeline.

But to have an alternate timeline, you have to have an original timeline. That timeline gave us 40 years of Trek, and brought us to this point. To see people that call themselves "Trek fans" so willing to utterly dismiss it, indeed, to turn on it like jackals on a wounded buffalo, is not just sad, but sickening.

"Your ox being gored"?

Give me a fucking break, darkwing -- it's not exclusively yours any more than it's exclusively mine or indranee's or Dennis' or anyone else's. It's ours, not because we own it but because we're all fans, and it's not being gored. That kind of over-possessive tone and overwrought language is what earns people like you and Capt. April the responses you get, not your age or the fact the you're an OS fan.

While we're at it:

And that gives you the right to bash a fellow OS fan?

If you're going to go on about bashing, it would have been far better if you hadn't first been the one to use phraseology like "[t]he only reason you hyenas are laughing" and "[t]o see people that call themselves "Trek fans" so willing to utterly dismiss it, indeed, to turn on it like jackals on a wounded buffalo, is not just sad, but sickening."

That's borderline flaming, and yet you have the balls to accuse indranee of bashing?

I think that it would do you good to step away from the keyboard for a while, and to go out for a dose of fresh air and perspective. Take a nice, long walk. Now would be a good time, methinks.


And now, if we could get back to actually discussing the movie?

 

[Hartzilla2007]

You know on the Robert April thing. Um considering the promo for The Cage Remastered pretty much says Pike was the Enterprise's first Captain. Not only is he not in the new continuity, but itlooks like the old continuity dumped him as well.

 

[indranee]

yes, he was pretty much fanon and part of some wishful thinking (and sort of a tribute to Gene Roddenberry).

btw, I found this. it's from http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,25346545-7642,00.html

everybody knows TOS is THE Trek. I don't know if it helps, but everybody knows:

"Certainly it was on my mind when I accepted the role but I think, I don't know, maybe it's naive, but I'm pretty sure that William Shatner will always be Capt Kirk and Leonard Nimoy will always be Spock. That's just a fact of the world. I feel like Zach and I have just kind of taken on the mantle for the time being and perhaps down the road there will be other Kirks and other Spocks. It's a great story, you know?" -- Chris Pine.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I don't understand the "original fans" that are so close-minded about this movie. I grew up watching Next Generation and the other series as brand new shows. I watched reruns of TOS... so I am no new fan, but why the angst towards the movie?? I will never understand.;

It doesn't "make sense" in the context of whether one is older, younger, a TOS fan or otherwise because dislike of this movie doesn't actually have anything to do with that. People who like it are not more "true fans" than people who don't; people who hate it don't "understand Trek" better than people who do. Where one comes down on this is entirely individual, having to do with temperment and biases and life history and all kinds of idiosyncracies that vary from one person to another. The justifications we provide for why we like or dislike the prospect of this reboot are after-the-fact - they're the stories that we tell ourselves about ourselves.

 

[Captain X]

Again, I find it amusing that the only way some people can defend Abrams Trek is to bash the original franchise. What makes it amusing specifically? Because for all the changes, a lot of the negative things people are bashing are still the same in Abrams Trek, and because bashing the thing a remake is based on is in a way bashing the remake for being based on it at all. Most amusing.