Curious line by McCoy in 'The Conscience of the King'

[Anticitizen]

McCoy offers Spock a drink. The following dialogue takes place:

McCoy: Would you care for a drink, Mr. Spock?
Spock: My father's race was spared the dubious benefits of alcohol.
McCoy: Oh? Now I know why they were conquered.



Throwaway line never followed up on, or a piece of Trek history I missed somehow?

 

[Doomsday]

I agree, that is a curious line.

Firstly, why does Bones think that booze would make a race stronger against invaders? One would think the opposite would be true, a bunch of drunken soldiers with compromised reflexes would be easier to defeat not harder.

But also, doesn't Spock indicate in another ep(The Immunity Syndrome?) that Vulcan had never known a conqueror?

But of course, in context, remember that Bones is just needling him as usual, and his comment doesn't necessarily have to be accurate to be a jibe.

 

[Anticitizen]

Suggesting the Vulcan race had been conquered if it had not is a little more than 'inaccurate'!

 

[Nerys Myk]

Vulcans backstory wasn't quiet set at that time. Fiction is funny that way. Though I've speculated that Vulcan might have been "cast" in the role of post war Japan. A "conquered" nation turned ally.

 

[JustKate]

But of course, in context, remember that Bones is just needling him as usual, and his comment doesn't necessarily have to be accurate to be a jibe.

But if it didn't have some truth to it, would it really be effective as jibe? I mean, if someone joked with me about that war the U.S. lost in 1945, my reaction wouldn't be irritation - it would be, "Huh?"

 

[Myasishchev]

I think he meant "conquered," metaphorically, by the swarms of irrational, vaguely racist human jerks who run the Federation, of which McCoy is the exemplar.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

Vulcans backstory wasn't quiet set at that time. Fiction is funny that way. Though I've speculated that Vulcan might have been "cast" in the role of post war Japan. A "conquered" nation turned ally.

That's how I read it--though McCoy pointedly says "were conquered" in the passive voice rather than "we conquered you." It's possible the implied backstory is that third party conquered Vulcan at some point--maybe even hat earth was instrumental in freeing it.

Of course, all that was contradicted by what Spock says in "The Immunity Factor"--ironic, considering the picture that kicks off the OP's other thread.

 

[Anticitizen]

Vulcans backstory wasn't quiet set at that time. Fiction is funny that way. Though I've speculated that Vulcan might have been "cast" in the role of post war Japan. A "conquered" nation turned ally.

That's how I read it--though McCoy pointedly says "were conquered" in the passive voice rather than "we conquered you." It's possible the implied backstory is that third party conquered Vulcan at some point--maybe even hat earth was instrumental in freeing it.

Of course, all that was contradicted by what Spock says in "The Immunity Factor"--ironic, considering the picture that kicks off the OP's other thread.

Not so ironic - I'm watching The Immunity Factor now due to this discussion.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

I read it as "the benefits (of alcohol" were conquered"

 

[Rush Limborg]

My guess is McCoy's just sarcastically implying that Vulcans were "conquered" by "cold-hearted, green-blooded, inhuman LOGIC"!

Spock, aware of the seriousness of the current situation, is too preoccupied to argue in this ep....

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Vulcans backstory wasn't quiet set at that time. Fiction is funny that way. Though I've speculated that Vulcan might have been "cast" in the role of post war Japan. A "conquered" nation turned ally.

Yep, that's pretty certainly it.

Another "canon" detail that mismatches others in TOS.

 

[Noname Given]

Vulcans backstory wasn't quiet set at that time. Fiction is funny that way. Though I've speculated that Vulcan might have been "cast" in the role of post war Japan. A "conquered" nation turned ally.

Yep, that's pretty certainly it.

Another "canon" detail that mismatches others in TOS.

And (imo) is further supported by it being mentioned in Court martial that Kirk himself was part of "the Vucanian expidition". It's possible that in some unused backstory tidbit that 'expedition' was what brought the 'conquered' Vulcan into the Federation.

 

[Albertese]

OTOH, it could be that McCoy was aware of a period in Vulcan history when Spock's (and Sarek, and Skonn, and Solkar's) particular ethnic group was conquered by other Vulcans from another ethnic/national group. It does seem a little out of synch with nearly all Trek politics taking place on global scales, but it's possible that McCoy wasn't referring to Vulcan as a planetary culture, but rather, Spock's own branch of Vulcans. i.e. it would be quite rude to tell a Japanese (or a German) person, "no wonder your people were conquered," But it wouldn't imply that all of the Earth was conquered!

--Alex

 

[WendellM]

My guess is McCoy's just sarcastically implying that Vulcans were "conquered" by "cold-hearted, green-blooded, inhuman LOGIC"!

That sot of makes sense. It did overtake their natural, emotional tendencies (though they did it deliberately), and Spock sometimes portrays it as a literal, internal conflict.

OTOH, it could be that McCoy was aware of a period in Vulcan history when Spock's (and Sarek, and Skonn, and Solkar's) particular ethnic group was conquered by other Vulcans from another ethnic/national group.

Which wouldn't have happened if they could have smoothed things over with a nice, friendly cocktail party and some slurred "I love you, man!"s. That also sort of makes sense.

I admit that these are both a bit "out there," but they're certainly creative ways of avoiding it being a mere, boring continuity error. Well done!

 

[Anticitizen]

OTOH, it could be that McCoy was aware of a period in Vulcan history when Spock's (and Sarek, and Skonn, and Solkar's) particular ethnic group was conquered by other Vulcans from another ethnic/national group. It does seem a little out of synch with nearly all Trek politics taking place on global scales, but it's possible that McCoy wasn't referring to Vulcan as a planetary culture, but rather, Spock's own branch of Vulcans. i.e. it would be quite rude to tell a Japanese (or a German) person, "no wonder your people were conquered," But it wouldn't imply that all of the Earth was conquered!

--Alex

That's a good fan-xplanation. I'll take it!

 

[Brutal Strudel]

Vulcans backstory wasn't quiet set at that time. Fiction is funny that way. Though I've speculated that Vulcan might have been "cast" in the role of post war Japan. A "conquered" nation turned ally.

Yep, that's pretty certainly it.

Another "canon" detail that mismatches others in TOS.

They're all over the place, particularly during the first season. I'm convinced that pure-blooded Vulcans were intended to be very inhuman appearing indeed based on what Spock says in "Corbomite" about Balock reminding him of his fateher (though this is easily retconned as simply meaning in character rather than physicality) and by the fact that Harry Mudd asks him if he was part Vulcanian (and there's a whole 'nother "canon" mismatch, along with Space Central and lithium crystals) rather than IDing him as Vulcan on sight. Of course, as early as episode 9, Vulcans were portrayed as looking exactly like Spock--though, oddly enough that's established by showing us Romulans, not Vulcans. When do we first even see another Vulcan? Not till the second season, with "Amok Time," right?

 

[Myasishchev]

Heck, there are only about six Vulcans with speaking parts in all three seasons.

And one of them was fake.

I do recall reading somewhere that the original conception of Spock was red-skinned. I forget if he had horns. I wonder if Clarke's "Childhood's End" predated that?

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

I do recall reading somewhere that the original conception of Spock was red-skinned. I forget if he had horns. I wonder if Clarke's "Childhood's End" predated that?

Samuel Peeples said in an interview that Roddenberry had an idea that Spock could take "energy" through a stomach plate instead of consuming food. Peeples stated that he got Roddenberry to drop it.

 

[Timo]

Of course, Spock's father's folks being conquered with booze they were unaccustomed to is a valid explanation for how these logical, stoic, tradition-minded people came to marry alien chicks from outer space...

As for "Vulcania", I've long fancied that it's the (somewhat derogative) name for the little colonial empire of planet Vulcan, much like Talaxia would be the empire of Talax and Andoria the empire of Andor. Calling a Vulcan "Vulcanian" would be a bit like referring to Germany as "(das/the) Reich" - a friendly or hostile jab at the nation's past.

Spock being suspected as just "part" Vulcanian is pretty easy to retcon if we assume that there aren't full Vulcans in close interaction with humans elsewhere in the 2260s society... Harry Mudd would of course address the issue with his customary subtlety; two hundred years prior, he'd no doubt have asked Uhura if she were Kirk's maidservant, and Sulu if he happened to be the child of an American soldier.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Noname Given]

Heck, there are only about six Vulcans with speaking parts in all three seasons.

And one of them was fake.

I do recall reading somewhere that the original conception of Spock was red-skinned. I forget if he had horns. I wonder if Clarke's "Childhood's End" predated that?

Actually, GR's first version of Mr. Spock had him being a Martain. Then someone reminded GR that life had yet to be discovered on Mars; and most modern scientists believed the planet was probably a lifeless desert.