Ship's Councelors

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Ok. I was recently watching two bits Trek that got me thinking about this.

1. On the awesome Generations commentary, Braga and Moore talk about the strangeness of having a counselor on ship considering that Roddenberry himself said that humans in the future are past many of the hangups we have today. Also they mentioned that it could be the aspect of TNG that dates it the most. Plus.. I mean is a councelor so important that s/he would neat a seat on the bridge next to the captain?

2. Watching "The cloud" (VOY) Janeway mentions that there is no councelor because the nature of the original mission didn't reqire one, but it would be most welcome to have one now. I can understnad the need of the writers to give one more aspect of Voyager to make them seem like a fish out of water, in that they would have to cope with these issues sans councelor, but, alas with Voyager, even that small bit of potential wasn't used. I think (and do you agree?) that they should have created an interesting councelor for the show, ta real professional who had a lot of insight into thecrew. The closes things to a councelor was either Kes or Neelix. Both were uninteresting and the latter was just plain annoying.

What do you think of ships' councelors?

 

[kythe]

1. On the awesome Generations commentary, Braga and Moore talk about the strangeness of having a counselor on ship considering that Roddenberry himself said that humans in the future are past many of the hangups we have today. Also they mentioned that it could be the aspect of TNG that dates it the most.

I don't really agree with this. Modern psychology has a long way to go to be truly essential, but it isn't going to just disappear as the world miraculously improves. Doctors haven't worked themselves out of jobs even as common diseases are cured. Mental health will also be a need for as long as humans are dealing with families, relationships, and emotions.

Roddenberry had an incredible vision of a utopian earth, but he seems to lack an understanding of what it may take to get there. If anything, I think good, standard mental health care may be crucial, not unnecessary, to keeping together a society of happy, peaceful people.

Plus.. I mean is a councelor so important that s/he would neat a seat on the bridge next to the captain?

I completely agree with you here. There has been some discussion on this in the thread about what we would like to change about Counselor Troi. I believe she would have looked much more professional with her own office near Dr. Crusher, associated with the medical team.

 

[Sector 7]

I think the best thing to happen to Troi was Captain Jellico making her wear a uniform and act like a member of StarFleet. It was never necessary for her to be on the bridge all the time. Later they finally had her actually doing something productive by seeing patients.
I do not really believe a psychologist is necessary to acheive 'utopia', but people being who they are will always need mental treatment for various ailments.

 

[alicelouise]

In Star Trek you have crews of different belief and value systems. A ship's counselor can help the crew integrate and keep lines of communications open between the officers and crewmembers. The counselor would be combination of Chaplain and Morale officer.

The STTNG series underused Deanna Troi. VOY made clumsy attempts to create them with Kes and Neelix. The ship's counselor could be made interesting by giving them authority that can override the Capt. and 1st Officer; in special situations. Of course, our heroic counselor would have to be really sure of their action. The check/balance is that an official inquiry would be triggered by a counselor override.

In fact, I'm considering writing a FF story about the official introduction of a ship's counselor into an ST crew. Capt. Sulu should be the lucky guy. Whaddya think?

 

[flightmech73]

As a family man my self I could use a counselor. But the thing with Troi that i believe is they just wanted an empath to help out the capt. when he needed it. Not sure they could think of any other job for her so it made sense to have a shrink. I do love the low cut dresses but I did like it when they finaly gave her a real uniform and she was more professional. Beside it worked out good to have shrink becuase of Barckley.

 

[Dark Gilligan]

It's been explained (or rationalized) that Troi's presence on the bridge had more to do with her skills in diplomacy and first-contact than it did with actual psychology. An empath would be of great advantage during a first-contact situation.

 

[phylogeny]

I think the best thing to happen to Troi was Captain Jellico making her wear a uniform and act like a member of StarFleet. It was never necessary for her to be on the bridge all the time. Later they finally had her actually doing something productive by seeing patients.

Oh God, yes, yes, YES!

I so so hated Troi until they put her in a uniform. Was it a coincident that the entire season she was in a uniform, TNG had the best season EVER?

Ok, maybe that's an exaggeration but I felt that TNG improved so much by making Troi appear more professionally.

The STTNG series underused Deanna Troi. VOY made clumsy attempts to create them with Kes and Neelix. The ship's counselor could be made interesting by giving them authority that can override the Capt. and 1st Officer; in special situations. Of course, our heroic counselor would have to be really sure of their action. The check/balance is that an official inquiry would be triggered by a counselor override.

I think Troi was mostly used to give her advice to Picard when they meet potentially alien life forms. Crusher was mentioned as the only person who can override the ship's captain. But you make a good point that Troi should also have that capacity.

As for never having to use mental health professionals...WTF? Physicians are what keeps people healthy, they're not there to just care for people when they catch something. Think about how we have extended our lifespan to 78....this is all because of proper health maintanence.

A counselor on a ship offers the same service, by resolving small mental health issues, and stopping potential mental problems before it occurs, the ship is kept in a healthy mental state.

I don't think GR truly understood that if he actually thought people no longer needed mental health professionals in the future. Stress brings out the worst in people and seeing a counselor is probably the healthiest thing to do on an enclosed society like a starship. I never liked Troi as a character but I always thought her role was pretty important.

 

[Arpy]

I think it's Braga and Moore that don't get the value of counselors. Troi was on the bridge to show Roddenberry's vision of the future in which mental health was treated similarly to physical health. Maybe they think Roddenberry's paradisical future naive, or that he was just a snake-oil salesman cashing in on an old idea that resonated with people. Maybe they think counselors are just throwbacks to the wacky 80's when seeing a shrink was all the rage and, look, Hollywood even put one on the bridge of the USS Enterprise! I see them as an example of the changes in society we make in the next few hundred years that lead to such an better future.

Why was Troi on the bridge? Well, it also saved the writers from having to come up with reasons to bring her there from her office like they did McCoy in TOS. Or LaForge from engineering. Plus, so she could read the bad guy's mind wit her kewl powerz, and show off her cleavege to the predominantly young male audience.

And about her outfit, why is it the fans don't complain about Seven's silver dominatrix outfit or T'Pol's skin-tight Vulcan "uniform"? Or Kira's ever-changing one? I love Troi in her uniform but there's a bit of a double-standard. Could it be fans respect Troi more? Or do they see humans/Starfleet as superior and less sexually?

 

[M'Sharak]

And about her outfit, why is it the fans don't complain about Seven's silver dominatrix outfit or T'Pol's skin-tight Vulcan "uniform"?

I hadn't realized that people had ever at any time stopped complaining about those.

 

[WillsBabe]

I think counselors/psychologists, whatever you want to call them would probably be pretty essential to a ship. If you think of all the things that happens to people over the years on the various ships that they need to recover from, I think a counsellor would help enormously - a neutral person to talk to in order to get the things you've been through dealt with. I don't know Voyager well at all but if they'd have wanted to have had a counsellor on board they could have picked one up somewhere, or had someone train for the job etc.

ETA: I'm disappointed, although maybe not surpirsed, that Braga and Moore were surprised that there was a counsellor on board the Ent D. Their remarks indicate why Troi probably didn't get used as well as she might have been. I'm disappointed that they couldn't have seen the potential of her. Sure, people of the future might have got "over" their hang ups, but that doesn't mean that they couldn't suffer from mental health problems, (mental ill health not being a "hang up", I don't think) that they are going to be automatically able to deal with the traumas that they suffer. In fact, one of the things that I hate about Star Trek (and I guess I should put this in that other thread) is the crews' abilities to dust themselves off and be a-okay by the end of the episode. I'm going to stop now, because I can feel a rant coming on.

Intersting topic, OP.

 

[C.E. Evans]

I've always believed that Troi was on the bridge only because Picard wanted a counselor on the bridge, but the captains of other Galaxy-class ships may have that seat reserved for whoever they specifically wanted, including the second officer.

Otherwise, counselors probably aren't normally bridge officers, IMO.

 

[Tachyon]

If people need counseling on Earth for whatever personal reasons, why wouldn't they need it on starships in space?

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Thanks, WillsBabe

 

[The Badger]

If people need counseling on Earth for whatever personal reasons, why wouldn't they need it on starships in space?

Good point. I'd go further and suggest that, because of the psychological stresses involved, you're much more likely to need counselling in space than on Earth.

 

[gwud]

I actually think that a counsellor would have been of great use on Voyager's original mission. They were supposed to capture a bunch of angry Maquis, I think having a counsellor on hand to help them through the stress of being captured would have been good, plus it may have helped Starfleet to get a little more information from them.

 

[Tachyon]

I actually think that a counsellor would have been of great use on Voyager's original mission. They were supposed to capture a bunch of angry Maquis, I think having a counsellor on hand to help them through the stress of being captured would have been good, plus it may have helped Starfleet to get a little more information from them.

I agree.

 

[ShamelessMcBundy]

I actually think that a counsellor would have been of great use on Voyager's original mission. They were supposed to capture a bunch of angry Maquis, I think having a counsellor on hand to help them through the stress of being captured would have been good, plus it may have helped Starfleet to get a little more information from them.

I discovered that using logic to try to describe Voyager leaves me with a headache and pissed off feelings, so don't even try.

 

[The Badger]

I actually think that a counsellor would have been of great use on Voyager's original mission. They were supposed to capture a bunch of angry Maquis, I think having a counsellor on hand to help them through the stress of being captured would have been good, plus it may have helped Starfleet to get a little more information from them.

I'd have to disagree with this one. For counselling to work there needs to be a desire on the part of the client to want to get better. Perhaps that would happen after some time in custody, but not immediately after being captured. An angry Marquis member would view anyone associated with Star Fleet as hostile, and would resist the counselling process. So in the long term counselling could help, but not during the mission itself.

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

There is no doubt that a Star Ship would need a counselor/Psychologist/Psychiatrist on staff, especially on long term missions. In fact, McCoy often acted in this capacity for Kirk, though it wasn't his primary area of expertise. What is laughable and what dates TNG to the 80s is having the ship's counselor seated next to the CO and XO, as if she were of equal importance and was needed on the bridge at all times.

 

[gwud]

I actually think that a counsellor would have been of great use on Voyager's original mission. They were supposed to capture a bunch of angry Maquis, I think having a counsellor on hand to help them through the stress of being captured would have been good, plus it may have helped Starfleet to get a little more information from them.

I'd have to disagree with this one. For counselling to work there needs to be a desire on the part of the client to want to get better. Perhaps that would happen after some time in custody, but not immediately after being captured. An angry Marquis member would view anyone associated with Star Fleet as hostile, and would resist the counselling process. So in the long term counselling could help, but not during the mission itself.

I agree, but I also think that if you are going to 'speak' with a load of captured Maquis, I think a counsellor would get the most out of them.

Plus with many of the Maquis being former Starfleet officers and it being the enlightened future, people may be more willing to talk about things - you know, talk to the fluffy Starfleet counsellor, get the Cardassian killing off my chest, it might even reduce my sentence.