Show me some evidence that I'm wrong.
How we deal with death
- Thread starter Leaf
- Start date
Show me some evidence that I'm wrong.
What I'm doing here? Well, I seem to be debating with the same 4-5 people who think that it was a good decision to kill off Janeway.
Hm-hm.
Some people on the TrekLit forum seem to be happy over the current development.
OK, I could have a poll on my website with the question: Should Kes be reinstated as the main character in future Voyager books and have at least a 90% yes vote for it.
Go for it, then I will accept your argument as having a valid basis
Amazon sales. Full Circle was outselling Over A Torrent Sea in preorders by a lot. Before Dishonor continues to sell better than the novels on either side of it, despite several reviews informing readers what is to come and being a TNG novel with a VOY character on the cover, which is usually a problem.
Anecdotally, we're tied - my board likes it, your board doesn't.
Amazon is hardly the best source of data, but it's all I can find, and it's solidly on my side.
Again: show me evidence or drop it.
Well you shouldn't.
I could ask all my friends that same question, and have a 100% "no" response. Doesn't mean dick.
Well...it would be marginally more of a valid basis than that which this debate is founded on...
As I've written before, some people are curious what has happened or will happen, some people are happy that a character they dislike is gone, some people might buy the books because they have all the other books, some people might still hope that Janeway will return and some of those who have bought "Before Dishonor" didn't know that her death would be permanent.
Let's see what will happen when the permanent annihilation of Janeway is known by most of the Star Trek fans.
1) I never said it was a good idea. I said I liked it. This is a story you don't like, and a story I do like. I appreciate your reasons. You don't seem to even comprehend mine. But if it were just that, it'd be over already.
2) You said it would decrease sales, based on nothing but anecdotal evidence. I never said it would increase sales, I said not one hour ago "maybe it will, maybe not, all creative decisions are risks". There's no evidence to support your side of THIS point so far, and very little to support the other side either. Yet you continue to claim it is fact.
3) You accused the writers/editors of being malicious, personal attacks based on nothing but the behavior of a totally different set of people who, themselves, were almost certainly not being malicious. And you continue to claim it is fact.
4) You rail against plot points you have inferred or invented out of thin air, despite the writer of the novel itself informing you otherwise. And you continue to claim them as fact.
5) You continue to push the point that Janeway could be brought back with "a little skill, wit, and creativity" as if we didn't know that. Of course she could. Good stories could be written that way. They just didn't want to write those stories, they wanted to write these. Those reasons have been presented. You don't have to agree, but you haven't even acknowledged them.
1 is no problem. 2-5 are illogical, hysterical, and grounded in nothing.
I'm as curious as you are. The difference is I'm not criticizing the authors based on one possible outcome of this creative direction.
Or some like the character but don't have a problem with her being dead and want to see here the authors take this
I bnelieve that you're a pink elephant who is typing this all out on a DVORAK keyboard.
Show me some evidence that I'm wrong.
THIS. A thousand times this. I fall into this category as well, but it sometimes feels like Lynx (and some others) believe we don't exist, or something. Part of the reason I've begun posting in these threads is to clarify that there is a middle-ground between the two extremes being presented by the "Bring Janeway back now" crowd: I have read too many posts that basically speak from a point of view that says if you aren't demanding that they bring Janeway back, if you aren't just FURIOUS over the "overly dark stories" and "needless character-destruction" that the books are engaging in, then you must LIKE it that she died, you must want to see LOTS of main characters die, you must LOVE the idea that TrekLit is spiraling into this bleak realm of hopelessness and despair (even though it's not, really). There are some of us who do not want to see Janeway just magically return tomorrow, and are very happy with the current state of TrekLit in general, yet at the same time, liked the character. In fact, if I DIDN'T like Janeway, I wouldn't have cared that much when she died. I thought it was well-written and powerful (that applies to Before Dishonor as a whole, IMO). And I want to see where things go from here. And I'm sorry, but seriously, TrekLit in general has a LONG way to do before it begins to feel like this nuBSG-style pit of dark despair and death that some of you are making it out to be.Or some like the character but don't have a problem with her being dead and want to see here the authors take this
Look, we GET that you are not happy with the direction of TrekLit, in particular with regard to Voyager. That's fine. You're entitled to your opinion, same as anyone. But so are we. And - weather you realize it or not - you are coming across as if you believe you are defending an objective fact, with statements about "unnecessary character destruction" and criticizing the authors for going one route, when they "should have" done something else.
Janeway died. The current author team, AFAIK, have said they have no plans to bring her back in the near future, but someday down the line, who knows? Voyager's crew... well, I won't comment on that, because I haven't read Full Circle. Which is part of the point: neither have you. So how can you judge it's content? To say nothing of the fact that you continually repeat your lack of interest in a story that is missing most of the Voyager cast, when multiple members including the FC author have stated that the book HAS most of the Voyager cast.
Why not just read the book? What if it's the coolest thing you've ever read in your life (or at least, the coolest thing relating to Voyager, at any rate
)?
That's a good point but there is actually a third group here - I would actually like to see Janeway come back to life so she can die again.
Let me explain further, I like reading Star Trek fiction but I don't really care about the characters like many do here - it's just a distraction to fill a few hours, something to read in bed and on the toilet. In the same way, I argue here because I like to argue with people, I find it a relaxing distraction not because I think any of this stuff means anything.
That's why I think Janeway should go back and die straight away, because after the reaction we've seen here I just think it would be really really funny.
You could have an amazing cliffhanger at the end of one book where she reappears and then at the start of the next, she's killed on the first page.
Janeway moved towards the central chair like she'd come home and then.. the console blow out and she was propelled forward into the view screen.
Let me explain further, I like reading Star Trek fiction but I don't really care about the characters like many do here - it's just a distraction to fill a few hours, something to read in bed and on the toilet. In the same way, I argue here because I like to argue with people, I find it a relaxing distraction not because I think any of this stuff means anything.
That's why I think Janeway should go back and die straight away, because after the reaction we've seen here I just think it would be really really funny.
You could have an amazing cliffhanger at the end of one book where she reappears and then at the start of the next, she's killed on the first page.
Janeway moved towards the central chair like she'd come home and then.. the console blow out and she was propelled forward into the view screen.
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And then do the same in every book.That's why I think Janeway should go back and die straight away, because after the reaction we've seen here I just think it would be really really funny.
You could have an amazing cliffhanger at the end of one book where she repeats and then at the start of the next, she's killed on the first page.
Janeway moved towards the central chair like she'd come home and then.. the console blow out and she was propelled forward into the view screen.
"Oh, my God! They killed Kathy!"
"You bastards!!"
And then do the same in every book.That's why I think Janeway should go back and die straight away, because after the reaction we've seen here I just think it would be really really funny.
You could have an amazing cliffhanger at the end of one book where she repeats and then at the start of the next, she's killed on the first page.
Janeway moved towards the central chair like she'd come home and then.. the console blow out and she was propelled forward into the view screen.
"Oh, my God! They killed Kathy!"
"You bastards!!"
Of course at some point they would just stop killing her though.
OMG! It's the next big thing in Trek Literature, it's called "The infinite Kates" and is about 1000s of alternative Janeways being summed to one place to save the universe. And then one dies in every paragraph!
Please tell Pocketbooks to send the cheque to the usual place.
Please tell Pocketbooks to send the cheque to the usual place.
And then do the same in every book.That's why I think Janeway should go back and die straight away, because after the reaction we've seen here I just think it would be really really funny.
You could have an amazing cliffhanger at the end of one book where she repeats and then at the start of the next, she's killed on the first page.
Janeway moved towards the central chair like she'd come home and then.. the console blow out and she was propelled forward into the view screen.
"Oh, my God! They killed Kathy!"
"You bastards!!"
You're both nuts. However... I cannot lie. I did laugh.
This reminds me of a post I made some time ago, and saved just in case it proved useful at some point down the road. Looks like one of those times:
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[/ScoobyDooFlashback-OoDooBeeDoo-OoDooBeeDoo]
[ScoobyDooFlashback-OoDooBeeDoo-OoDooBeeDoo]
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