Sex, the 22nd century taboo

[Mach5]

There was this scene in "E2":

TUCKER: "Come on, you've got to admit you've been avoiding me ever since the two of us, you know, when we..."
T'POL: "Had sexual relations."

And remember that weightlifting scene in "Bound?"

TRAVIS: "The females are unbelievably attractive. Very open about... I was fifteen!"

Why were Trip and Travis so afraid (or ashamed) to use the word "sex?" What's wrong with 22. century human males?

 

[MiroslavSFCenter]

I think that main reason lies in our time, begining of the 21. century. Namely, we see that gay lobbies trying to diminish and erradicate masculine characteristics from our society, to crush male confidence and strength in favor of feminist, bixesual, homosexual and transexual "rights".

It is quite possible that kind of "activities" bring us to the society which despise femmine or masculine characteristics of human kind in favor some genderless, unisex society. That kind of society would subconsiusecly produce fear toward opposite sex, especially toward visible sexual atributes.

That prosess is quite visible in the form of supermodels and fashion gurus in our society which have tremendeous impact on the mass media and many teens, transforming them from alfa males and females into metrosexuals.

I would not say that Trip and Travis are metrosexuals, but they certainly have some inhibitons which are product od the deviant society in which truly female/male atributtes (like chubby godess, or alfa males with hairy chest) are suppressed by gay lobbies.

 

[Penguin]

Could have something to do with the Moral MOthers of America and the american's fear of Skin or anything that smacks of normalcy.

Look at the old films and if you watch TCM you willl see shots of couples sleeping in twin beds. couldn't sow married couples in one bed then.

I remember carching a really old film and in it a couple going on their Honeymoon. they are in a drawing room on a train their wedding night.

the groom breaks out a deck of cards and asks the bride ifshe wants to play double solitaire.

We haven't come too far from that even if soft core porn is shown these days on HBO, Showtimes etc and scenes of couples falling into a bed,

You still hear the gnashing of teeth out of the moralists.

Now voilence is a different thing all together. show as much blood and gore as you like that is all right.

But SEX, can't have too much of that and certainly not in a show the kiddies might watch.

Never mind how the kiddies might dress and act these days. Look in the eyes of some tweens and they look jaded.

So, no Sex for appearance sake

 

[JustKate]

Hmmm, well...I can remember the phrase "sexually attractive" (unless it was "sexually attracted" - can't remember now) being used on TNG. And it seems to me that "sexual relations" is fairly frank. What's wrong with it? It's perfectly in character for T'Pol, and the scene with Trip being a bit embarrassed and T'Pol being matter-of-fact is actually pretty darn funny.

So it's not that I don't agree that we are a bit inhibited here in 21st century America, but I think you're reading just a l-i-i-i-i-i-t-t-t-t-l-l-l-l-e bit more into it than it deserves. If you want to keep it on network TV, you have to use implication sometimes in place of plain talk, and if you want to keep it G or PG rated, it's the same thing. I wouldn't think "had sex" would kick it over the line, but then again, I don't know. I personally am in favor of Trek retaining that G or PG rating, so whatever they do within reason is OK with me.

Miroslav, I honestly don't want to offend you, but I do NOT know what in the heck you mean by the "gay lobbies," and in fact there are several places in your post where my reaction is, "What the...?" I'm not saying you're wrong (or right) - I'm saying I have no real idea what you mean.

 

[commodore64]

I think it's supposed to be comedic. It's funnier if the writers write that Trip can't say the word or is searching for something. Same with Travis.

 

[Mach5]

The word "sex" by itself has been used many times in Trek (especially in Voyager and ENT), but I don't understand is why Trip and Travis are so reluctant to use it.
And that scene in "Bound" was downright absurd, it was like Travis was talking to a parent and hesitated to use the F word or something.

And another example - in season 1 when T'Pol suggested that the crew may be suffering from sexual deprivation, Archer reacted like an embarrassed teenager whose mother asked him if he's still a virgin or something.

Miroslav, I honestly don't want to offend you, but I do NOT know what in the heck you mean by the "gay lobbies,"

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-co...06-2008/better-know-a-lobby---gay-lobby-pt--1

I think it's supposed to be comedic. It's funnier if the writers write that Trip can't say the word or is searching for something. Same with Travis.

Comedic? Who could find that stuff funny?

 

[JustKate]

Um, me? Sometimes, anyway. Make of that what you will.

 

[JiNX-01]

There was this scene in "E2":

TUCKER: "Come on, you've got to admit you've been avoiding me ever since the two of us, you know, when we..."
T'POL: "Had sexual relations."

And remember that weightlifting scene in "Bound?"

TRAVIS: "The females are unbelievably attractive. Very open about... I was fifteen!"

Why were Trip and Travis so afraid (or ashamed) to use the word "sex?" What's wrong with 22. century human males?

Afraid to say sex? I don't think so.
In Trip's case, I think the scene was written to emphasize the difference between him and T'Pol. He has the human awkwardness; she's coolly matter-of-fact when discussing "these things" (see: The Xindi and Similitude).

I think that main reason lies in our time, begining of the 21. century. Namely, we see that gay lobbies trying to diminish and erradicate masculine characteristics from our society, to crush male confidence and strength in favor of feminist, bixesual, homosexual and transexual "rights".

It is quite possible that kind of "activities" bring us to the society which despise femmine or masculine characteristics of human kind in favor some genderless, unisex society. That kind of society would subconsiusecly produce fear toward opposite sex, especially toward visible sexual atributes.

That prosess is quite visible in the form of supermodels and fashion gurus in our society which have tremendeous impact on the mass media and many teens, transforming them from alfa males and females into metrosexuals.

I would not say that Trip and Travis are metrosexuals, but they certainly have some inhibitons which are product od the deviant society in which truly female/male atributtes (like chubby godess, or alfa males with hairy chest) are suppressed by gay lobbies.

I'm pretty sure the only thing gay lobbies want are the same thing you want: equal treatment under the law.
Thanks for stopping by.

Could have something to do with the Moral MOthers of America and the american's fear of Skin or anything that smacks of normalcy.

Look at the old films and if you watch TCM you willl see shots of couples sleeping in twin beds. couldn't sow married couples in one bed then.

I remember carching a really old film and in it a couple going on their Honeymoon. they are in a drawing room on a train their wedding night.

the groom breaks out a deck of cards and asks the bride ifshe wants to play double solitaire.

We haven't come too far from that even if soft core porn is shown these days on HBO, Showtimes etc and scenes of couples falling into a bed,

You still hear the gnashing of teeth out of the moralists.

Now voilence is a different thing all together. show as much blood and gore as you like that is all right.

But SEX, can't have too much of that and certainly not in a show the kiddies might watch.

Never mind how the kiddies might dress and act these days. Look in the eyes of some tweens and they look jaded.

So, no Sex for appearance sake

Honestly, Penquin, did you even watch Enterprise?!

Hmmm, well...I can remember the phrase "sexually attractive" (unless it was "sexually attracted" - can't remember now) being used on TNG. And it seems to me that "sexual relations" is fairly frank. What's wrong with it? It's perfectly in character for T'Pol, and the scene with Trip being a bit embarrassed and T'Pol being matter-of-fact is actually pretty darn funny.

So it's not that I don't agree that we are a bit inhibited here in 21st century America, but I think you're reading just a l-i-i-i-i-i-t-t-t-t-l-l-l-l-e bit more into it than it deserves. If you want to keep it on network TV, you have to use implication sometimes in place of plain talk, and if you want to keep it G or PG rated, it's the same thing. I wouldn't think "had sex" would kick it over the line, but then again, I don't know. I personally am in favor of Trek retaining that G or PG rating, so whatever they do within reason is OK with me.

Miroslav, I honestly don't want to offend you, but I do NOT know what in the heck you mean by the "gay lobbies," and in fact there are several places in your post where my reaction is, "What the...?"

I think it's supposed to be comedic. It's funnier if the writers write that Trip can't say the word or is searching for something. Same with Travis.

I agree. I think it was intended to be funny. Trip feels awkward, just like he was "the morning after" in Harbinger.

The word "sex" by itself has been used many times in Trek (especially in Voyager and ENT), but I don't understand is why Trip and Travis are so reluctant to use it.
And that scene in "Bound" was downright absurd, it was like Travis was talking to a parent and hesitated to use the F word or something.

And another example - in season 1 when T'Pol suggested that the crew may be suffering from sexual deprivation, Archer reacted like an embarrassed teenager whose mother asked him if he's still a virgin or something.

I think it's supposed to be comedic. It's funnier if the writers write that Trip can't say the word or is searching for something. Same with Travis.

Comedic? Who could find that stuff funny?

No so much "funny" as amusing. And kind of sweet.
On the other hand, maybe Trip was trying to be a gentleman.

 

[Mach5]

In Trip's case, I think the scene was written to emphasize the difference between him and T'Pol. He has the human awkwardness; she's coolly matter-of-fact when discussing "these things" (see: The Xindi and Similitude).

Which kinda contradicts the previously established Vulcan reluctance to discuss sex.

EMH: For such an intellectually enlightened race, Vulcans have a remarkably Victorian attitude about sex.
TUVOK: That is a very human judgment, Doctor.
[VOY, "Blood Fever"]

Honestly, Penguin, did you even watch Enterprise?!

Easy JiNX, Penguin here is a dedicated TnT shipper, among other things. He knows his Enterprise.

 

[JiNX-01]

In Trip's case, I think the scene was written to emphasize the difference between him and T'Pol. He has the human awkwardness; she's coolly matter-of-fact when discussing "these things" (see: The Xindi and Similitude).

Which kinda contradicts the previously established Vulcan reluctance to discuss sex.

Vulcan's don't like to discuss the blood fever (pon farr). They have no problem with sex. If they had, Spock would have quit his job!

Honestly, Penguin, did you even watch Enterprise?!

Easy JiNX, Penguin here is a dedicated TnT shipper, among other things. He knows his Enterprise.[/quote]
Really? I wondered because I can't believe anyone who watched ENT would come away thinking it was puritanical.

 

[Mach5]

Vulcan's don't like to discuss the blood fever (pon farr). They have no problem with sex. If they had, Spock would have quit his job!

Wasn't he, like, only 1/2 Vulcan? I also remember seeing him smile now and then...

Easy JiNX, Penguin here is a dedicated TnT shipper, among other things. He knows his Enterprise.

Really? I wondered because I can't believe anyone who watched ENT would come away thinking it was puritanical.

Penguin was talking TV in general, and when it comes to sex in Star Trek, even sitcoms like "Friends" and "Two and a half men" have more of it.

Like, for example, when did you ever hear a woman moan in Star Trek? Not counting Tonya Barrows in "Shore Leave..."

OK, ENT was supposed to be all 'sexed up,' but other than that notorious decon scene in the pilot, the only "sex" was Blalock walking around in cat suits, and giving Trinneer shiatsu.

I mean, I know that the audience in the States is considered conservative and all (read: "prudes"), but here in Europe, that hardly passes for sex.

Take the morning after scene from "Whorebringer" (as Commodore once called it). The dialogue was childish. Wouldn't it be more interesting if Tucker called T'Pol's bluff and asked her about the findings and conclusions of her "sexploration"? Noooooo, he was embaaaarrased

 

[Myasishchev]

It's kind of a shame that English has no middle ground phrase. "Had sex" sounds too clinical (as do "had intercourse" or "mated"). I'm sure someone will say that "made love" works, but it always sounds archaic and is very often inappropriate. "Fucked," which is frankly the best word and the one I use in my personal life, is probably a little too hot for TV and for some reason a lot of people dislike it. Versatile verb, though. "Screwed" just sounds like you're afraid to say "fuck." "Banged" is slightly better, but suffers from the same issue as "screwed." "Hooked up" is way too hip, and I don't even know if people still say it. I've always thought it was an ugly, callous phrase.

"Hit it" is a little too college kegger, true--but it's not awful. Observe:

TUCKER: "Come on, you've got to admit you've been avoiding me ever since the two of us, you know--when I hit that."

 

[Penguin]

Sorry I got to meandering.

My point was and should have been a little more brief is that for some reason the PTB thought that it was young males (14?) who wre the main audience so they had to play down the Sex.

Although in two days and two nights Hoshi has aone night stand and is shown in bed with the guy.

Writers soon put paid to that simply be having Hoshi seeminly forgetting all about the night and the guy as it ws never brought up again.

I believe the PTB abd the writers fell all over themselves trying to imply sex without giveing it a name.

That stupid scene in Harbinger of the morning after was crincge making. It could have been comromised simpy by showing a little more of what happened in T-Pol's quarters after she shed her robe and cclamped a lip lock on trip. Trip and T-Pol could hav least been shown under the covers after the first bout of you know what.

Also there should have been some dialogue between Trip and T-Pol while thery wre in bed. They should have said something even if it was no more than Trip wanting to know what in Hell was going on.

T-Pol secuded Trip out of jealousy over Cole. she wanted to put her mark on Trip. She obvioously wanted hiim for herself and was not about to share him with another woman. So she took the step of secuding him to bind him if posible.

But to avoid more sex than the robe dropping the writers abriveiated the scene and had that mroning after crap.

Ent is positively modest when it comes to Sex and I believe it is because the PTB were concerned about the kiddies viewing the series.

 

[The Academic]

The crux of the matter is that it's probably an American thing. No other nation in the Western hemisphere is as uptight as the United States.

 

[Myasishchev]

The crux of the matter is that it's probably an American thing. No other nation in the Western hemisphere is as uptight as the United States.

Except every country in Latin America.

 

[JustKate]

I don't think Canada is all that racy, either, though I must admit that it's been a few years since I watched any TV broadcast from Canada. Besides, I must say that of all the Trek shows, the one that's the least uptight is certainly Enterprise.

 

[iguana_tonante]

I think that main reason lies in our time, begining of the 21. century. Namely, we see that gay lobbies trying to diminish and erradicate masculine characteristics from our society, to crush male confidence and strength in favor of feminist, bixesual, homosexual and transexual "rights".

It is quite possible that kind of "activities" bring us to the society which despise femmine or masculine characteristics of human kind in favor some genderless, unisex society. That kind of society would subconsiusecly produce fear toward opposite sex, especially toward visible sexual atributes.

That prosess is quite visible in the form of supermodels and fashion gurus in our society which have tremendeous impact on the mass media and many teens, transforming them from alfa males and females into metrosexuals.

I would not say that Trip and Travis are metrosexuals, but they certainly have some inhibitons which are product od the deviant society in which truly female/male atributtes (like chubby godess, or alfa males with hairy chest) are suppressed by gay lobbies.

 

[JustKate]

That was my reaction, too, Iguana. Is it a joke? (Thanks for the link, Mach5.) No idea. Is it serious? No idea. Is it a little bit of each? No idea. What is it actually saying? No idea.

 

[Michael]

*snip*

That's complete bullshit.

 

[Penguin]

Sex is not a spectator sport.

Porn, hardcore and softcore is boring.

Like watching paint dry.

Admittedly when I was in my mid teens I could get turned on by a racy photo or a nude. Damned quick actually.

I am not a teen any more and I have seen a whole lot of naked females in my life so that doesn't turn me on any more. although I still appreciate a beautiful female dressed or undressed.

But I have never seen but a few examples of sex depicted on TV or in mainline films that could get my interest.

So sex for itself in a TV series as far as I am concerned would not further the story. If it did further the story as the episode between Trip and T-Pol could have then the sex would have its place in the series.

But sex shoved in just for arousal is needless. which is one of the reasons I hated those damned Catsuits that T-Pol, and Seven had to wear.

There was a fair amount of implied sex in Enterprise: In two days and two nights Archer seemed to have had it on with the woman whose room was near his and who had a Dog. Trip and the Princess in Prescious Cargo
is implied to have had Sex becasue they wre shown cuddled together and Trip was in his skivies. Trip and T-Pol in Haringer in the seduction scene. but nothing overtly shown.

Think a couple of those scenes were done well but a couple badly.

In other words writers handled Sex in a ham handed way.

Don't think Sex was so much taboo as it was beyond the capabilities of the writers to handle it properly.