Attached to "Attached"

[Too Much Fun]

I apologize in advance to those who might tire of this rambling, pseudo-essay I'm unleashing here. I'm sorry, but I couldn't help myself. I just watched "Attached" and was compelled to start a thread on it both because of how amazed with it I was, and also how upset I was by its conclusion. I may have only seen it once and perhaps only saw half of it when I did, because I am just astonished by what a brilliant episode it was. I might even consider it one of the best in the whole series. I guess I was too young to appreciate it when I first saw it. I've always liked the character of Dr. Crusher, but I've never seen her portrayed as fascinatingly as she was in this episode. I always thought she wasn't given enough to do on the show and feel much sadder about that now after seeing how wonderful she could be when she was actually given the opportunity to display the depth of her character. The interaction between her and the captain was so warm, authentic, natural, and beautifully written in this episode.

As a result, it makes me feel a real sense of loss for the lack of a romantic relationship ever developing between them in the series or movies. I was reading some background information on the episode recently and found out that many fans were very disappointed (as I am right now) that their relationship never went anywhere in the wake of this episode. The same source states that the writers stuck up for this decision by claiming they left the relationship platonic because they felt that was more 'realistic'. Apparently they thought the fans were just having that "fanfic" kind of perspective where all you can think about is characters getting together romantically, but I disagree. Before I saw the episode, the logic of that made sense to me, but after seeing it, I really feel like it's B.S. and the reality is that the real reason they didn't use this episode to change the Crusher/Picard relationship was COWARDICE. Sure they were 'married'/divorced in the alternate timeline of "All Good Things...", but that wasn't much more than a 'what if' fantasy situation. I think they should have been put together and kept together for real.

I think the writers simply didn't have the guts to go all the way with the relationship, and I believe this episode proved that it would have been more natural for Picard and Crusher to become a couple. A fan once told me she thought the only redeeming quality of "Insurrection" was that it finally got Troi and Riker together, but now I find myself wishing the same had been done for Crusher and Picard. Even with all of their history, I don't think Troi and Riker ever had as much chemistry as the doctor and captain had as revealed in "Attached". I was wondering what everyone else's thoughts were on this. Do you agree with the writers' decision to return things to status quo at the end, or do you feel (like me), it just showed a lack of adventurousness and willingness to go the more daring (but also organic) route?

Appropriately enough, I am re-discovering the unrealized potential of the Beverly Crusher character and the rarely seen greatness Gates Mcfadden was capable of through it right after her birthday. Seems like a rather fitting and timely tribute. Gates deserved better...if only she'd at least had a real stand-out scene in one of the movies! The closest we got was her funny dialogue with the doctor hologram in "First Contact": "Well, do a dance! Tell a story! I don't care!" That line probably sums up how Gates felt about her character much of the time. Why couldn't the writers ever do anything memorable with her character? In "Attached", they finally did, but never followed through on the promise of that.

 

[WillsBabe]

I was never a P/C fan when TNG was on the air (I'm not against it, it just isn't a relationship that I'm interested in). But even I was disappointed that the end of the episode went nowhere. In retrospect I think it would have been nice if they had developed the P/C relationship over time and turned it into a mature, slow-growing intimate relationship. If there is any moment that made me fond of P/C (years after TNG ended) it was the moment in Nemesis when she is sitting on his desk and they are looking at the old photo of Picard, and it makes me think of all the history they have. There's just something in that moment for me that illustrates what they missed. It reminds me of Cause and Effect when she goes to his ready room because she can't sleep.

I think Attached is a good episode, and it looks good, too.

I have to disagree with you on your thoughts about P/C having more chemistry that Riker and Troi. For me that isn't the case. I think if they'd been making TNG now both the couples would probably have had their relationships explored more than they did. In fact, I think it would have been interesting to have seen their contrasting relationships and how each of the couples handled the various effects of the lives they were living.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I think they should have been put together and kept together for real.

Ever read the novels?

Spoiler: P/C

Picard and Crusher are now married and expecting their first child.

Anybody who says the novels aren't canon will be ignored since the novels are the only time we will ever see these characters again, so it doesn't make a difference.

 

[jamestyler]

I'd find it more interesting if they went the Stargate route... admitting feelings for each other but pushing them back as they know they can't be together due to rules and regulations. Or, more likely seeing as we've seen a Captain-Crew member relationship with Picard, substitute Neela for Crusher and have it be his own decision.

 

[Whoa Nellie]

I The same source states that the writers stuck up for this decision by claiming they left the relationship platonic because they felt that was more 'realistic'.

Actually, I agree completely with TPTB on this point. "Attached" is an excellent character piece for Beverly Crusher specifically because of the ending. By having her say "Or perhaps we should be afraid" Crusher is showing she is a highly professional woman with the intelligence, strength, and good common sense to walk away from a situation that most likely would end quite badly for her. To have her fall into Picard's arms and his bed enormously weakens the Crusher character, as satisfying as it might have been for some shippers (not everyone ships P/C by the way). The episode "Lessons" does an excellent job of driving this point home. The many pitfalls of such a romantic entanglement between a captain and one of his officers are shown in Picard's romantic relationship with Lieutenant Commander Daren. Daren is forced to choose between her career as a Starfleet officer and her place in Picard's bed. In the end Daren's dalliance with the captain cost her the position she held on the Enterprise. In my opinion, the episode "Lessons" even more than Crusher walking out at the end of "Attached" or the failed marriage and divorce in the alternate timeline of "All Good Things" was the death knell of any canon P/C relationship. The very same pitfalls of fraternization that were shown between Daren and Picard would have happened in a P/C romantic relationship. Picard makes it very clear in the end of the "Lessons" that he personally CAN NOT handle placing his lover in harms way.

Anybody who says the novels aren't canon will be ignored since the novels are the only time we will ever see these characters again, so it doesn't make a difference.

Ignoring a fact does not change it. For a whole plethora of excellent reasons books are not canon.

Warmest Wishes,
Whoa Nellie

 

[JustKate]

Very well put, Nellie. As the folks in the Voyager forum know, because I went into it with great and probably tedious detail, I am so not a fan of the idea of the captain - any captain - getting romantically involved with a member - any member - of his/her crew. Or the first officer, either, and probably the second officer, too. (If anybody really wants to read it, not that I'm recommending this - make sure you have lots of spare time - you can find it in "The Great J/C Thread," particularly the first few pages.)

In the modern-day military, it's called fraternization, and it's considered a very serious offense, and the reason it is considered so serious is because it carries so much potential for conflicting interests, loyalties, and duties.

I realize the rules in Starfleet are different, but nobody has ever been able to give me a compelling reason why. They've tried to, but the arguments just don't convince me at all. Honestly, I have become convinced that the real reason why there is no anti-fraternization rule in Starfleet is dramatic (giving the writers free rein to come up with compelling romantic plots) rather than philosophical (Starfleet doesn't want to interfere with the private lives of its personnel). And maybe they are right about the drama in what is after all fiction, but I'm pretty sure I'm right when it comes to how this would work out in the real world.

A serious committed relationship would have been great on TNG - we had very little of it, aside from the on-again-off-again Riker/Troi thing, which annoyed the hell out of me, by the way, and of course Miles and Keiko. But not one involving the captain and a member of the crew. If somebody wanted to pair Picard up with someone - and it would have been wonderful to watch the controlled and logical Picard to not only fall head-over-heals in love but also actually get married! have to learn to fit another person into his life! - they needed to pair him up with someone he didn't have to command.

So I enjoyed this episode a lot, but I think it ended just the way it ought to - with Crusher saying, in essence, "This is extremely tempting for many reasons, but for many reasons, it's a very bad idea." That was great - so real.

 

[Too Much Fun]

Well said, ladies (assuming WhoaNellie is a lady)! This is one of the few times someone's disagreed with me and after reading over their rebuttals, my first thought is "fair enough" (usually I just feel like arguing further). You two are like the Spock to my McCoy. Reading your points and realizing how logical they are makes me think maybe mine were more emotion-driven than I thought. The only sort of counterpoint I want to make is that I don't think the Crusher situation was that similar to the one in "Lessons". For one, Crusher and Picard have a lot more history, and since she's a doctor, Crusher is not at risk as much as a scientist or security officer, who would be sent on away missions more frequently. Still, you're both right, she is technically 'under his command' as much as anyone else on the ship...it's just easier to forget that because most of the time she's more likely to be puttering around sickbay than risking her life on some missions under his orders. I think what I was originally getting at is that "Attached" convinced me of how right it seemed for Picard and Crusher to get together on an emotional basis, but you've both very eloquently explained why their relationship is ill-advised on a rational basis. Again, well-played. This whole discussion not only helps me understand the decision at the end of the episode, but further reinforces a very important fact of life - relationships are complicated!

 

[Whoa Nellie]

Very well put, Nellie.

Thank you!

As the folks in the Voyager forum know, because I went into it with great and probably tedious detail, I am so not a fan of the idea of the captain - any captain - getting romantically involved with a member - any member - of his/her crew. Or the first officer, either, and probably the second officer, too.

There needs to be that professional line between captain and crew.

If somebody wanted to pair Picard up with someone - and it would have been wonderful to watch the controlled and logical Picard to not only fall head-over-heals in love but also actually get married! have to learn to fit another person into his life! - they needed to pair him up with someone he didn't have to command.

Agreed! It would need to be a civilian. Around the fourth season, Michael Piller, the show's associate executive producer, inquired about marrying Picard to Vash (a civilian archaeologist) to provide some new story dynamics for Picard. The studio executives killed the idea of marrying off the captain. The shipboard marriage idea survived in the fourth season episode "Data's Day" where Miles O'Brien married Keiko Ishikawa. I always wondered how that Picard and Vash marriage might have looked if it had come to pass. Would they have shown more of Vash's academic side? Would they have put her on dig sites or in lecture halls? (DS9's episode "Qless" refers to the Daystrom Institute wanting her to speak on her travels.) Would they have shown more of Picard's interest in archaeology? Or would Vash have become a reoccurring bit player, the officer's wife/civilian scientist role that Keiko played?

Warmest Wishes,
Whoa Nellie

edited to add:

Well said, ladies (assuming WhoaNellie is a lady)!

Yes, I am a lady.

This is one of the few times someone's disagreed with me and after reading over their rebuttals, my first thought is "fair enough" (usually I just feel like arguing further).

Thank you!

 

[WillsBabe]

Actually, I agree completely with TPTB on this point. "Attached" is an excellent character piece for Beverly Crusher specifically because of the ending. By having her say "Or perhaps we should be afraid" Crusher is showing she is a highly professional woman with the intelligence, strength, and good common sense to walk away from a situation that most likely would end quite badly for her. To have her fall into Picard's arms and his bed enormously weakens the Crusher character, as satisfying as it might have been for some shippers (not everyone ships P/C by the way).

Damn you and your logic! The moment I decide I might like a bit of P/C and you come along and point out the error of my ways!

 

[Whoa Nellie]

Actually, I agree completely with TPTB on this point. "Attached" is an excellent character piece for Beverly Crusher specifically because of the ending. By having her say "Or perhaps we should be afraid" Crusher is showing she is a highly professional woman with the intelligence, strength, and good common sense to walk away from a situation that most likely would end quite badly for her. To have her fall into Picard's arms and his bed enormously weakens the Crusher character, as satisfying as it might have been for some shippers (not everyone ships P/C by the way).

Damn you and your logic! The moment I decide I might like a bit of P/C and you come along and point out the error of my ways!

Sorry about that.

Warmest Wishes,
Whoa Nellie

 

[JustKate]

Well, I enjoyed your post, Too Much, even the parts I didn't agree with. It's kind of refreshing to have a guy be the romantic for a change.

And Nellie, you're right that a civilian would be the only way it could work (from my perspective, anyway). Heck if they'd wanted to, they could have made Crusher a civilian right from the beginning - a researcher based on the Enterprise or something - and then we all could have had fun speculating without fussing about that fraternization thing.

 

[SiorX]

Well, here's a soap box with my name on it if ever there was one.

Attached is one of my favourite bits of television ever. I think the way it portrays the Picard/Crusher relationship is kind of wonderful, and completely different from what we're used to in a romantic plot. I know a lot of people do feel it was cowardly of TPTB to end Attached the way they did. And I'm sure a lot of it was because of their decision to keep the hero single for the movies. (And also because the cyclical nature of the show never really leant itself to such big changes in the characters' situations.)

I'm on the record with this before - I don't think Attached is a him+her=true love episode, but I also really don't think it shuts down the relationship between Picard and Crusher at all. What it does do is give us a snapshot of where they're at at this point. They've got a rock-solid friendship, but they're still confused, conflicted, and unable to communicate when it comes to the romantic side of their relationship.

I don't think one really comes away from that episode thinking "Oh, well that's that then." I don't think the characters come out of it with much in the way of resolution either.

WoahNellie and I discussed this a little bit way back on the P/C thread, so I'm going to cheat occasionally and copypasta what I said there.

Picard: Little by little I realised I no longer had those feelings.

Crusher: And now we're friends.

What's this bit telling us? Ostensibly that Picard had a crush on Beverly one time, but is over it now so it's all good. But the whole reason we're even having this episode, surely, is because there's been seven years of off and on tension between the characters which doesn't suggest it's all in the past at all.

To be nitpicky, what it actually tells us is that what Picard chose to say out loud at that point was that he didn't have those feelings any more. That might seem like a P/C fan trying to wriggle out of it, but part of the conceit of the episode is that (teasingly) we the audience don't get to be privy to a lot of what's going on, so statements made aloud become ambiguous.

A major theme of Attached from P/C, to the opening conversation about Ogawa, to the Kes/Prytt divide, to the map that's so clear to the Kes operatives, but ambiguous to the Starfleet officers following it, to Beverly's anecdote about Tom Norris, is breakdown in communication. Failure to communicate has also been a running gag in the P/C relationship ("There's something I've been meaning to tell you.")

Earlier in the episode, Picard and Crusher have discussed the difference between reacting to each other's thoughts and to each other's words. They misinterpret and still have to puzzle things out loud ("You hate having breakfast with me."). Quite early on, they come to a sort of mutual understanding that each should pay heed to what the other says, not what the other thinks:

Beverly: I didn't say you were. I may have thought it, but there's a difference.

Picard: You're right. We can't react to every random thought that crosses
the other person's mind.

In the firelight scene, most of what goes on is unspoken. We aren't privy to their thoughts, but neither of them looks very comfortable that it's all water under the bridge between pals. However, in order to properly rationalise whatever is between them, by their own rules they need to say it aloud. So two options they go for are the safe ground of "Now we're friends" which is of course an obvious truth whatever else they are, and Picard's avowal that he doesn't have "those feelings" anymore.

What's left ambiguous is what exactly "those" feelings are (does he mean his love for her? does he mean his guilt over it? is he deliberately shutting down further investigation into just what feelings he does have now?). The rest is uncomfortable silence.

Much running about and being caught by the Prytt, then rescued and un-networked later...

Beverly: Or perhaps we should be afraid

She leaves. He pointedly blows out a candle.

Picard delivers a line, Beverly shuts him down. But Beverly's reason is fear - not an acknowledgement that there's nothing but platonic friendship between them, but fear over dealing with whatever else there is which they still haven't named (which IMO is the ocean of unresolved sexual tension).

It's not resolution. I mean, even in a metatextual sense, you'd think if the closed door/blown out candle were supposed to be the writers saying "That's it, case closed" they'd have actually shut up with the UST from there on. But nope - it'd dialled up as high as it's been since season one in Sub Rosa and All Good Things

(Interesting side note - in the original shooting script Beverly says "I'm not afraid, but I'm also not ready." I much prefer the version we got onscreen.)

I'm not saying this is the only way to read it. My sister reckons that at the end here Beverly's trying diplomatically to say "I'm just not that into you." Mine is just the reading that makes most sense to me given what we've seen and heard before. It's not a no forever. It's a no until something changes - it's going to need a bigger catalyst than a revelation about how long Picard's loved her for Crusher to feel secure moving their relationship forward.

I think the crux of why she teases him and then turns him down is this bit of genius by Picard, by the way:

Now that we know how each of us feels, perhaps we should not be afraid to... explore those feelings.

Seriously, Johnny? Seriously??

First, I think it's deliberately teasing the audience that after watching the episode they can't possibly know "how each of them feels" because the telepathy plot excused the characters from discussing any of it outloud.

Second, I completely agree with Whoa Nellie on this:

"Attached" is an excellent character piece for Beverly Crusher specifically because of the ending. By having her say "Or perhaps we should be afraid" Crusher is showing she is a highly professional woman with the intelligence, strength, and good common sense to walk away from a situation that most likely would end quite badly for her. To have her fall into Picard's arms and his bed enormously weakens the Crusher character, as satisfying as it might have been for some shippers (not everyone ships P/C by the way).

Beverly's making an informed and intelligent decision here. We've heard from Picard's desire, and him treating their relationship as something to "explore" isn't enough for her, I think. The episode doesn't give us enough access to Crusher to know what it is that she'd need from Picard to be ready to risk moving forward, but 'maybe we shouldn't be afraid to explore' clearly isn't it.

TL;DR version - YMMV, but I love Attached with all my 'shipper heart.

 

[JustKate]

Attached[/I] is a him+her=true love episode, but I also really don't think it shuts down the relationship between Picard and Crusher at all. What it does do is give us a snapshot of where they're at at this point. They've got a rock-solid friendship, but they're still confused, conflicted, and unable to communicate when it comes to the romantic side of their relationship.

Oh, I completely agree that this episode did not, and was not supposed to, shut down the relationship. It was left...as it was left - ambivalent and a bit messy. That's what I love about it!

 

[Too Much Fun]

Well, I enjoyed your post, Too Much, even the parts I didn't agree with. It's kind of refreshing to have a guy be the romantic for a change.

Thank you for the compliment and thank you to everyone who has partcipated in this thread. I had no idea people could be so passionate about this subject, and I'm very pleased to hear I'm not the only one who really wanted Picard and Crusher to get together!

 

[L. C. Darius]

Oh, gee. Where to begin....

Let me start by saying that Attached was my very first episode ever and that the whole Picard/Crusher things is one of the big draws of the episode for me. I always have thought that they should have gotten together. That being said, I think you can see where this is going.

To me, the whole episode just shows how well they work together and how well they know one another. They can hear one another's thoughts and feel one anoher's emotions and still aren't at one another's throats over it. That in and of itself says something. A lot of married couples couldn't say the same.

In my mind, it wouldn't weaken Crusher's character at all to get invloved with Picard. There's more than enough precedent that says that relationships between members of Starfleet are NOT off-limits. In fact, if Picard were going to get involved with ANYONE under his command, the one who would present the least amount of problems would be his CMO-the only person on the ship who can issue him orders as well. She's not afraid of the professional ramifications of a relationship, she's afraid of losing Picard like she lost her parents, and Jack, and Walker, and almost everyone else she's cared about. By the end of the season, she's lost both Wesley and Nana as well. Turning him down like that just shows that she's letting herself be trapped emotionally by her past and not letting herself move forward. It's not just Picard who's been hung up on Jack's death all these years, it's Crusher, too. To me, that's certainly giving us a much better look at what makes her tick, but it doesn't mean she's handling everything appropriately.

Besides, the original, scripted ending of the episode had her saying that she wasn't afraid, but that she wasn't ready yet, either.

Getting together with Picard certainly wouldn't make her weak. It would mean that she's finally come to terms with her past and is willing to move on. Consider all the other men she's ever even shown remote interest in: none of them were going to be sticking around for a serious relationship. Even with Odan, I think things developed past what she anticipated. And she gave up the chance for a lasting relationship there, as well. A serious, adult relationship would have been an interesting character development for both characters. Much more so than having Picard Kirk around with all sorts of random women in the movies. I'd've been interested to see how the two of them handled things like losing the Enterprise, being invaded by the Borg, or Shinzon. It would have given both characters a different dimension and shown an aspect of Starfleet life that we rarely, if ever, get to see.

As for Nella Darren, isn't it possible that Picard's experiencing that situation with her makes him better equipped to deal with it in later relationships? I'd much rather him learn what it feels like and begin figuring out how to deal with it with Nella than with Crusher. No one can be expected to know how to handle that right off the bat, not even Picard.

Oh, and Too Much Fun, if you're interested, there's a Picard/Crusher forum you might think about joining:
http://www.alotofthingscanhappen.com/forum/ : )

 

[WillsBabe]

^ I like how you made a verb of Kirk there.

 

[Tachyon]

Attached is definitely one of my fav TNG episodes. And not just because of the "romantic aspect" of the episode, but also because of the Kesprytt world and the devices of on Picard's and Bev's necks.

 

[LaBarre]

I The same source states that the writers stuck up for this decision by claiming they left the relationship platonic because they felt that was more 'realistic'.

Actually, I agree completely with TPTB on this point. "Attached" is an excellent character piece for Beverly Crusher specifically because of the ending. By having her say "Or perhaps we should be afraid" Crusher is showing she is a highly professional woman with the intelligence, strength, and good common sense to walk away from a situation that most likely would end quite badly for her. To have her fall into Picard's arms and his bed enormously weakens the Crusher character, as satisfying as it might have been for some shippers (not everyone ships P/C by the way). The episode "Lessons" does an excellent job of driving this point home. The many pitfalls of such a romantic entanglement between a captain and one of his officers are shown in Picard's romantic relationship with Lieutenant Commander Daren. Daren is forced to choose between her career as a Starfleet officer and her place in Picard's bed. In the end Daren's dalliance with the captain cost her the position she held on the Enterprise. In my opinion, the episode "Lessons" even more than Crusher walking out at the end of "Attached" or the failed marriage and divorce in the alternate timeline of "All Good Things" was the death knell of any canon P/C relationship. The very same pitfalls of fraternization that were shown between Daren and Picard would have happened in a P/C romantic relationship. Picard makes it very clear in the end of the "Lessons" that he personally CAN NOT handle placing his lover in harms way.

Anybody who says the novels aren't canon will be ignored since the novels are the only time we will ever see these characters again, so it doesn't make a difference.

Ignoring a fact does not change it. For a whole plethora of excellent reasons books are not canon.

Warmest Wishes,
Whoa Nellie

Let's face it, Vash was out for a good time and Picard was too. She used him and vice versa. It was a fling x 2 episodes. Good fun, nothing more. Canon is that Q took her away to pursue her nefarious ways. Excellent end to the "relationship."

Nella was much more serious - and does indeed highlight the pitfalls of fratinisation that Whoa Nellie discuss.

But we all know what was really going on here. It's the old Moonlighting issue with Maddie and David - unresolved sexual tension is a way to keep viewers glued to the screen. Once you resolve it, you lose the viewers. While TNG existed on TV and movies, TPTB wanted (understandably) to keep their options open. They wanted newbies to be able to watch First Contact without having to know that the Captain was "taken." It kept things lively.

Well now, all these years on - some excellent Vash/Picard fanfic notwithstanding - we are now receiving what we knew should have happened much earlier - recognition of a Picard-Crusher relationship, and marriage, and a baby.

It was always meant to happen, and now it has.

As far as canon is concerned (although it may be on the cutting room floor, it's still on the DVDs), she did - indeed - save the last dance for him.

 

[Whoa Nellie]

Well now, all these years on - some excellent Vash/Picard fanfic notwithstanding - we are now receiving what we knew should have happened much earlier - recognition of a Picard-Crusher relationship, and marriage, and a baby.

It was always meant to happen, and now it has.

As far as canon is concerned (although it may be on the cutting room floor, it's still on the DVDs), she did - indeed - save the last dance for him.

Thank you for the compliment, but it still doesn't change the fact that none of what you listed above is actually considered canon. In fact the novels conflict with the deleted scenes. In the novels I believe Worf becomes first officer of the Enterprise. In the deleted scenes included with special features on the Nemesis DVD the new first officer of the Enterprise is Commander Martin Madden played by actor Steven Culp. And this is why novels and deleted scenes contained in special features are not canon.


However, the below is canon.

Warmest Wishes,
Whoa Nellie

 

[LaBarre]

WN, I never suggested that the Picard/Vash scenes wee not canon. I said that the "relationship" was "a fling x 2 episodes. Good fun, nothing more" and then thankfully "canon had Q take Vash away to pursue her nefarious ways."

The Picard/Vash relationship that you've developed in your fanfic - while a lot of fun, BTW - is not reflective of what transpired in canon and to suggest otherwise is wishful thinking.