How often & how did they remind Kes not 2 go back'n time 2 kill them?

[Guy Gardener]

Once a week, once a month?

Of course the opposite might be true that despite how dangerous it was to have the half mad little old girl go on a murder spree downtimestream, her aggressive insane murderous presence was integral to their personal history and the timeline might collapse if she wasn't blowing bulkheads, melting faces and punching through thoraxes on day 56 come hither from future days.

Of course the Kes that did the damage arrived diagonally from a future alternate timeline, but the crew of Voyager didn't know that despite Kathryn insuring that the moentum of this supposed causality would be broken which luckily didn't seem to have any dire consequences when she psychoanylzed Old kes into Complacency.

So did they constantly remind her to go back to kill them for three years, or did they constantly remind her not to go back and kill her for three years?

 

[Newspaper Taxi]

Re: How often & how did they remind Kes not 2 go back'n time 2 kill th

She got a spanking from the Admiral Janeway of "End Game" and that set her straight pretty fast.

 

[kimc]

Re: How often & how did they remind Kes not 2 go back'n time 2 kill th

She got a spanking from the Admiral Janeway of "End Game" and that set her straight pretty fast.

Really, when did that happen?

 

[Lynx]

Re: How often & how did they remind Kes not 2 go back'n time 2 kill th

Kes didn't went back in time to kill anyone once a month.

But since Kes seem to be blamed for every single mistake with the show, I guess that she could be blamed for "Endgame" and all errors in the season 4-7 episodes as well.

I look out of the window and it's snowing outside. Probably Kes's fault.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: How often & how did they remind Kes not 2 go back'n time 2 kill th

In Fury Lynx, in Fury.

They got their ass handed to them by Old Kes and Young Kes was there to see that it was a bad idea until she for got. The more they reminded her the more likely on an off chance she might not forget that these people were not her enemies.

 

[Lynx]

Re: How often & how did they remind Kes not 2 go back'n time 2 kill th

In Fury Lynx, in Fury.

They got their ass handed to them by Old Kes and Young Kes was there to see that it was a bad idea until she for got. The more they reminded her the more likely on an off chance she might not forget that these people were not her enemies.

"Fury" was an one-time event. It didn't happen once or twice a month.

Besides that, the pathetic creature which was supposed to be "Kes" in that horrible episode had so little resemblance with the real Kes that I simply refuse to see that wreck as Kes.

There is an explanation for what that creature was and why she acted that way to be found in the "String Theory" books, an explanation that I do find quite plausible.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: How often & how did they remind Kes not 2 go back'n time 2 kill th

Gods.

Old kes traveled back to day 56.

Everyone one aboard voyager on day 56 saw old Kes try to kill them.

Including young Kes.

It was three years before young Kes left.

Young Kes grew up to be old Kes and she forgot being killed on day 56 so she repeated events and still attacked voyager in the present and tried to go back to day 56 to kill everyone, despite that it was her destiny to be murdered by young Kathryn because she forgot her destiny and what a bad idea it was to proceed.

Someone should have been trying to make sure she didn't forget.Everyone should have. So then hopefully Kes wouldn't have been trying to commit subside by running against a Janeway who consdered her a foe if it had just been drummed into her by constant reminders and maybe postits and tattoos that Fury was a bad idea.

Fury shouldn't have happened again but it did.

 

[Miss Chicken]

Re: How often & how did they remind Kes not 2 go back'n time 2 kill th

I see what you mean. In a way it is similar to a time loop because Young Kes becomes aware of Fury Kes and should change her behaviour when she became aware of what the future would be, so when she became Fury Kes again she should have been a different more informed Fury Kes.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: How often & how did they remind Kes not 2 go back'n time 2 kill th

But she forgot.

Senility.

Which is why tattoos like in Momento would have bee ace.

When she forms a fist, on the back of her palm, it might indelibly say "Don't kill Harry with this".

 

[Seven of Five]

Re: How often & how did they remind Kes not 2 go back'n time 2 kill th

You know what might have been interesting? Kes coming back, mind warped n' all, wanting to take mighty vengeance on Janeway et al, and staying around for a few episodes. We could have learned what had happened to her to make her so screwy, and she could have been a temporary villain before she sorted her head out with her friends.

Instead we get strange time-travel hijinks where Kes reminds her future self that she liked the people that rescued her and let her live on their ship for three years. "Oh yeah. Whoops! Bye!" Then she's off again.

I didn't like Fury.

 

[joyofvgr]

Re: How often & how did they remind Kes not 2 go back'n time 2 kill th

I would have even settled for a quick conversation in the end about what she'd been doing for the last three years. Belanna could have simply said something like, "OK, now that you've got your mind back and don't plan to kill us, what have you been doing with yourself?" A little more explanation as to why Kes was so angry would have been helpful as well. We hadn't seen her for three years and the only time where she showed a tendancy to be confused was in Before and After.

 

[Lynx]

Re: How often & how did they remind Kes not 2 go back'n time 2 kill th

I would have even settled for a quick conversation in the end about what she'd been doing for the last three years. Belanna could have simply said something like, "OK, now that you've got your mind back and don't plan to kill us, what have you been doing with yourself?" A little more explanation as to why Kes was so angry would have been helpful as well. We hadn't seen her for three years and the only time where she showed a tendancy to be confused was in Before and After.

The point is that they couldn't come up with such a scenario because if they had, the whole plot with a "crazy Kes out for revenge" would have fallen apart. It would have ruined their intention of making the character look as mean, disgusting and ugly as possible and would also have revealed the fact that the real Kes would never ever harm her crewmates. She would rather have sacrificed herself than harming anyone of them.

And she couldn't blame them for whatever happened to her. It was her own choice to join the crew and she did that because she wanted to learn and explore. Kes was also very happy during her time on Voyager, there were never a single moment when she was unhappy or questioned her choice to join the crew. So there were no reasosn at all to urn any anger against her former crewmates.

What we did see in that horrible episode was a character so different from the real Kes that it's hard to believe that the character had any resemblance to the real Kes. In fact, the theory presented in the "String Theory" books is a more plausible explanation to what the Voyager crew did encounter in that episode than any explanation in the episode itself could have done.

 

[Lynx]

Re: How often & how did they remind Kes not 2 go back'n time 2 kill th

You know what might have been interesting? Kes coming back, mind warped n' all, wanting to take mighty vengeance on Janeway et al, and staying around for a few episodes. We could have learned what had happened to her to make her so screwy, and she could have been a temporary villain before she sorted her head out with her friends.

Instead we get strange time-travel hijinks where Kes reminds her future self that she liked the people that rescued her and let her live on their ship for three years. "Oh yeah. Whoops! Bye!" Then she's off again.

I didn't like Fury.

There aren't many people who like that episode.

What I think they should have done was to let the energy-being Kes encounter the female Caretaker or Q and told any of them that she wanted a human lifespan and to go back to Voyager. Then, after being restored to what she was in seasons 1-3 but with a prolonged lifespan and after some adventures in which she would finally do something important for the crew, she would return to them and stay there for the rest of the series.

Just as I did in my Kes come-back story "Coming Home"!

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: How often & how did they remind Kes not 2 go back'n time 2 kill th

What about a Vulcan lifespan instead?

Despite the fidelity issues, I always appreciated the pairing up with Tuvok that they glanced upon with her, not that they didn't try to set her up with almost every man on the ship.

 

[Lynx]

Re: How often & how did they remind Kes not 2 go back'n time 2 kill th

What about a Vulcan lifespan instead?

Despite the fidelity issues, I always appreciated the pairing up with Tuvok that they glanced upon with her, not that they didn't try to set her up with almost every man on the ship.

A Vulcan lifespan would be great!

But when it comes to pairing up, old Tuvie is a married man, you know.

And I don't think that they were trying to pair her up with "almost every man", the only one they did try with was Tom Paris (except for Neelix, of course).

 

[JustKate]

Re: How often & how did they remind Kes not 2 go back'n time 2 kill th

Harry and Kes would have been kind of sweet together - and it would have given Harry something to do besides almost die all the time. Why didn't they try that? It makes a lot more sense than Kes and Tom, for goodness' sake.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: How often & how did they remind Kes not 2 go back'n time 2 kill th

What about a Vulcan lifespan instead?

Despite the fidelity issues, I always appreciated the pairing up with Tuvok that they glanced upon with her, not that they didn't try to set her up with almost every man on the ship.

A Vulcan lifespan would be great!

But when it comes to pairing up, old Tuvie is a married man, you know.

And I don't think that they were trying to pair her up with "almost every man", the only one they did try with was Tom Paris (except for Neelix, of course).

The Doctor in Projections and Tuvok of course in Warlord when the guy stealing her mind said "She knows what you think about her, she sees how you look at her" or something like that. Harry and Chuckles were the only two they didn't set her up with. Then there were passers by like Tannis and that han Solo like pug frm Darkling.

Dude "fidelity" means being honest and loyal, which is the opposite of infidelity, which general means cheating on your wife or husband among other stuff. I wonder in Warlord if they forgot about T'Pel? Because they certainly didn't in Tuvix when Kes used Tuvok's wife as a superb reason as to why they not yield to Tuvix's romantic interest.

Though what about Hargrove from twisted that Neelix was worried about? He was on the money about Tom, maybe he's really really good at spotting jerks trying to steal his women? Hargrove might not have had such innocent ideas about where his "friendship" with Kes was going as the little girl did?

NEELIX: Kyoto's quarters. Nicoletti. Hargrove. Ayala.
KES: None of those are anywhere near my quarters.
NEELIX: This is deck eight. That's where your quarters are.
KES: But Hargrove and Ayala are on deck seven. Nicoletti is on four and I think Kyoto is on six.
NEELIX: How do you know where everyone's quarters are?
KES: I just remember.
NEELIX: Remember from what? Have you been in all their quarters?
KES: Of course not. The point is, those quarters can't all be on the same deck.
NEELIX: Well, see for yourself.
KES: This can't be.
NEELIX: Perhaps, sweeting, your memory isn't as reliable as you think.
KES: This is impossible. I know Hargrove is on seven.
NEELIX: Why Hargrove?
KES: What?
NEELIX: Why are you so sure about Hargrove's quarters? What makes him so special?
KES: He's not special. I just remember where his quarters are. This way. It has to be this way.

Neelix was certainly worried about a lot of (wo?/)men aboard Voyager making a play for his girlfriend, surely he couldn't think that every one was after his precious?

 

[Therin of Andor]

Re: How often & how did they remind Kes not 2 go back'n time 2 kill th

Which is why tattoos like in Momento would have bee ace.

Chakotay's face tattoo means, "Don't forget to buy milk on the way home."

 

[Lynx]

Re: How often & how did they remind Kes not 2 go back'n time 2 kill th

What about a Vulcan lifespan instead?

Despite the fidelity issues, I always appreciated the pairing up with Tuvok that they glanced upon with her, not that they didn't try to set her up with almost every man on the ship.

A Vulcan lifespan would be great!

But when it comes to pairing up, old Tuvie is a married man, you know.

And I don't think that they were trying to pair her up with "almost every man", the only one they did try with was Tom Paris (except for Neelix, of course).

The Doctor in Projections and Tuvok of course in Warlord when the guy stealing her mind said "She knows what you think about her, she sees how you look at her" or something like that. Harry and Chuckles were the only two they didn't set her up with. Then there were passers by like Tannis and that han Solo like pug frm Darkling.

Dude "fidelity" means being honest and loyal, which is the opposite of infidelity, which general means cheating on your wife or husband among other stuff. I wonder in Warlord if they forgot about T'Pel? Because they certainly didn't in Tuvix when Kes used Tuvok's wife as a superb reason as to why they not yield to Tuvix's romantic interest.

Though what about Hargrove from twisted that Neelix was worried about? He was on the money about Tom, maybe he's really really good at spotting jerks trying to steal his women? Hargrove might not have had such innocent ideas about where his "friendship" with Kes was going as the little girl did?

NEELIX: Kyoto's quarters. Nicoletti. Hargrove. Ayala.
KES: None of those are anywhere near my quarters.
NEELIX: This is deck eight. That's where your quarters are.
KES: But Hargrove and Ayala are on deck seven. Nicoletti is on four and I think Kyoto is on six.
NEELIX: How do you know where everyone's quarters are?
KES: I just remember.
NEELIX: Remember from what? Have you been in all their quarters?
KES: Of course not. The point is, those quarters can't all be on the same deck.
NEELIX: Well, see for yourself.
KES: This can't be.
NEELIX: Perhaps, sweeting, your memory isn't as reliable as you think.
KES: This is impossible. I know Hargrove is on seven.
NEELIX: Why Hargrove?
KES: What?
NEELIX: Why are you so sure about Hargrove's quarters? What makes him so special?
KES: He's not special. I just remember where his quarters are. This way. It has to be this way.

Neelix was certainly worried about a lot of (wo?/)men aboard Voyager making a play for his girlfriend, surely he couldn't think that every one was after his precious?

Hmmmm.....I do think that you are exaggerating or misunderstanding a few things here.

The Doctor's "marriage" with Kes in "Projetions" (an excellent episode by the way) was a dream which maybe revealed that The Doctor had some feelings for her (a program with feelings! ) but nothing more.

The event with Tuvok in "Warlord" was actually Tieran who tried to manipulate Tuvok. What he said to Tuvok was his words, not Kes's. And as for good old Tuvie, he's a married man.

As for Tuvix and his possible desires, I guess that it was the Neelix part of the guy who was speaking and thinking.

As for Hargrove and the others which were mentioned in "Twisted", I consider it as one of Neelix's fits of jealousy.

But I can understand if there were guys around who were interested in her!

By the way, the quote from "Twisted", is it to be found somewhere on the net or do you have and excellent memory and remembers all this? I always mix up the dialogues when I try to quote them.

JustKate wrote:

Harry and Kes would have been kind of sweet together - and it would have given Harry something to do besides almost die all the time. Why didn't they try that? It makes a lot more sense than Kes and Tom, for goodness' sake.

Hmmm.....I'm not so sure about that. I see no chemistry between them. Honestly, I think that Tom and maybe Chakotay would have been a better deal for her.

Therin Of Andor wrote:

Chakotay's face tattoo means, "Don't forget to buy milk on the way home."

And that comment really made my day! Hilarious!

 

[JustKate]

Re: How often & how did they remind Kes not 2 go back'n time 2 kill th

Hmmm.....I'm not so sure about that. I see no chemistry between them. Honestly, I think that Tom and maybe Chakotay would have been a better deal for her.

A better deal, maybe - personally, I think Chakotay would be quite a deal for anybody. But while there might have been no chemistry between Harry and Kes, there was zero chemistry between Chakotay and Kes, Lynx. Which is probably because there wasn't supposed to be.

As for Guy's take on Neelix's jealousy, I have to agree with him. Neelix was jealous of lots of people - mostly males, but he didn't really like Kes to have friendships in which he didn't share. He wanted her to be happy, he wanted her to have friends...but he wanted to be the center of her young existance, and that's how he acted in the scene Guy quotes. He was...cross-examining her, exactly the way a jealous person would. I remember as I watched it for the first time wondering to myself if the writers were starting to work up to something. They weren't, as it happened, but I did wonder.

I'm not saying Neelix had grounds for jealousy, but since when does somebody need just cause in order to be jealous?