Disgruntled Janeway fans: try a carrot

[Trent Roman]

Workforce doesn't really count given that it was a mind-altered Janeway.

It's been a while since I've seen "Workforce", but I seem to recall that despite having new memories, most of the characters were still acting 'in character', so to speak; their underlying personality hadn't changed. Paris is still something of a rogue, shirking the work detail he's actually assigned to for working in the bar. Torres is a loner, distrustful of others. 'Annika Hansen', cold and efficient. Only Tuvok, by virtue of being stripped of his emotional control, is altogether a different person. The Janeway we saw in workforce in many ways reminded me of the Janeway of earlier seasons, before the weight of her psychological burden (and not brain damage ) took its toll on her personality and relationships.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[Tay]

Well, I am deeply sorry to hear that, but I do of course respect your right to make that choice.

I, personally, have gone through about 3 huge phases of Trek reading, between which there were years where I never touched them. Sometimes, it just isn't working, but it doesn't mean that later it won't.

I really enjoyed "Isabo's Shirt" and Kristen Beyer's writing style. If I get too curious about the book, there's always the library. I can always rewrite some scenes in my mind to include Janeway

I'm like that with certain authors. I read them constantly and then need to take a break from them. I usually come back to them too.

You know I think there are some Disgruntled Janeway fans that could learn a lesson from Tay. And that is that you can express your dislike of Pocket Book's decision to kill Janeway in a thoughful and well put together post WITHOUT insulting the writers and editors of Pocket.

It's a very touchy subject for many people on both sides of the fence. I figured that saying things calmly, without blasting away at any one's opinions would have a better welcome and give people a chance to comment without emotions flaring up on both sides of the debate. Very logical I think...

You're misunderstanding what is meant by what you paraphrased. As a writer, I don't write for my readers, because that's an unknowable and unquantifiable commodity. Just to give one example from my own work: when Articles of the Federation came out, I got a roughly equal number of readers praising the governmental structure I postulated for the Federation for being an original amalgam of the U.S. and UK systems (with other stuff as well), and slamming me for the governmental structure I postulated being too close to the U.S. and not original at all.

"The readers" isn't a monolithic group (as this thread amply demonstrates). I write to satisfy myself because I know what that actually entails; I don't know what will satisfy my readers until it's too late to change it.

Excellent point. The readership can be very difficult to satisfy. So many factors will influence us and how we wish to perceive a certain universe or incident.

I write fanfic, nothing to grand but my latest story met with some criticism because of how I characterized the Chakotay character.

Knowing the lack of response or the upset readers that I would encounter would I have still written the story? Honestly, my answer would be yes. I have dozen of stories that have the fluffy, happy ending that the readers like and that I normally love to write. This one was written mainly for me. If some of my regular readers enjoyed it despite the unhappy ending, I glad that they were willing to give it a chance. Sometimes you just have to write, even if it's to get rid of an idea that refuses to let go until it's on paper.

I respect authors that go forward with the stories that might rock the boat, even if I don't always agree with where it sometimes takes them.

Tay

 

[KRAD]

That still would have been a straight line for the right person, I suppose.

Pffft. The world is my straight line, pal.

 

[Mriana]

Y'know, every time I see the subject line, I want to add: "They're good for you and improve your eyesight!"

After I started the topic I realized it should have been called "Disgruntled Janeway fans: try using a carrot." Or "Disgruntled Janeway fans: try using a carrot instead of a stick." Or "Janeway gratification: ur doin it wrong."

That still would have been a straight line for the right person, I suppose. But this is not an adults-only board.

And rather crass.

 

[kimc]

Workforce doesn't really count given that it was a mind-altered Janeway.

It's been a while since I've seen "Workforce", but I seem to recall that despite having new memories, most of the characters were still acting 'in character', so to speak; their underlying personality hadn't changed. Paris is still something of a rogue, shirking the work detail he's actually assigned to for working in the bar. Torres is a loner, distrustful of others. 'Annika Hansen', cold and efficient. Only Tuvok, by virtue of being stripped of his emotional control, is altogether a different person. The Janeway we saw in workforce in many ways reminded me of the Janeway of earlier seasons, before the weight of her psychological burden (and not brain damage ) took its toll on her personality and relationships.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

I agree!

 

[DaveR]

However, I won't be purchasing any books from Pocket Books, etc. Star Trek was just the tip of the icing on my making this decision.

So what's your beef with Pocket Books, if Star Trek is only the tip of the iceberg? I mean, did the stuff you mention happen in other franchises, or just individual books and authors published by Pocket?

I feel like I've missed something huge here....

Dave

 

[Hartzilla2007]

I would like to like to repost something I posted in another thread that has relevance to this discussion so if you will pay attention to the following

You know TerriO reminded me of something we really and I mean REALLY need to concider before we start debating the reason for keeping Janeway dead or bringing her back. And this thing we really need to consider is we don't have a frakking clue what JJ Abrams is going to do to the Trek universe in his new movie. I mean if this thing is a hit (and I hopeit is) and ends with the entire Trekverse being esentually rebooted it could decannonize all of 24th century Trek. So untill we get answers to this we might want to table the debate at least untill may 8th.

 

[Thrawn]

The movie is in an alternate timeline, perhaps an alternate continuity altogether. It will in no way invalidate anything else.

Not to mention, there's no reason the novel line would quit publishing its continuing stories; movie-based novels would be so much more restricted.

Oh, and you can't decanonize anything that wasn't canon in the first place.

So, no - the movie will have no impact whatsoever on absolutely any part at all of the Trek novel line, with the possible exception of movie-continuity-based novels being slowly added to the lineup.

 

[Daddy Todd]

We have never demanded that any of you write this, that's not the way men see Science Fiction or Trek.

Brit

Brit, I actually find this statement to be extremely sexist. "Men" are no more uniform than women; some men may prefer their Star Trek or SF to be a certain way; other men prefer it differently. At least one of the posters vociferously posting against the death of Janeway in several of these threads is a man.

 

[Brit]

We have never demanded that any of you write this, that's not the way men see Science Fiction or Trek.

Brit

Brit, I actually find this statement to be extremely sexist. "Men" are no more uniform than women; some men may prefer their Star Trek or SF to be a certain way; other men prefer it differently. At least one of the posters vociferously posting against the death of Janeway in several of these threads is a man.

It is sexist, no two ways about it. I write erotica and men and women don't want the same things in erotica. A lot of things are sexist, in fact some of the most pleasurable things around are sexist, but the hurtful things are the ones that say it's my way or no way. The hurtful ones say what you want to read is a waste of my time so you can't have it.

Brit

 

[Semah]

We have never demanded that any of you write this, that's not the way men see Science Fiction or Trek.

Brit

Brit, I actually find this statement to be extremely sexist. "Men" are no more uniform than women; some men may prefer their Star Trek or SF to be a certain way; other men prefer it differently. At least one of the posters vociferously posting against the death of Janeway in several of these threads is a man.

It is sexist, no two ways about it. I write erotica and men and women don't want the same things in erotica. A lot of things are sexist, in fact some of the most pleasurable things around are sexist, but the hurtful things are the ones that say it's my way or no way. The hurtful ones say what you want to read is a waste of my time so you can't have it.

Brit

What?

 

[Brit]

Brit, I actually find this statement to be extremely sexist. "Men" are no more uniform than women; some men may prefer their Star Trek or SF to be a certain way; other men prefer it differently. At least one of the posters vociferously posting against the death of Janeway in several of these threads is a man.

It is sexist, no two ways about it. I write erotica and men and women don't want the same things in erotica. A lot of things are sexist, in fact some of the most pleasurable things around are sexist, but the hurtful things are the ones that say it's my way or no way. The hurtful ones say what you want to read is a waste of my time so you can't have it.

Brit

What?

I'd put up a link that explains that but this isn't an adult only board. PM me and I'll give it to you.

Brit

 

[Daddy Todd]

The hurtful ones say what you want to read is a waste of my time so you can't have it.

Brit

Can you point out places where this has been said? Because what I've read is more along the lines of "For the forseeable future, Pocket Books is going to explore what the loss of Janeway will mean to the Star Trek universe."

That's quite a different thing from saying "Hahaha loser! We're gonna kill Janeway DeadDeadDead just because we can!"

It seems you're accusing anyone who disagrees with you of making the second statement, and I think that's unfair and inaccurate.

 

[Semah]

It is sexist, no two ways about it. I write erotica and men and women don't want the same things in erotica. A lot of things are sexist, in fact some of the most pleasurable things around are sexist, but the hurtful things are the ones that say it's my way or no way. The hurtful ones say what you want to read is a waste of my time so you can't have it.

Brit

What?

I'd put up a link that explains that but this isn't an adult only board. PM me and I'll give it to you.

Brit

Your previous post does not make any sense in the context of the discussion. Does your link?

 

[Octavia]

Oh God. You're not going to show them the corn story, are you? I don't know if you wrote it, Brit, but mix Trek and erotica in my mind and that's what comes up.

 

[Ktrek]

I asked my wife what she thought about Star Trek books going in a more romantic line. She loves reading Star Trek too, but unfortunately does not have as much time to read them, as often as I do. Her response was and I quote.." if I want to read trash novels I'll go buy one but when I read Star Trek I want it to be Star trek free of all that trashiness"! So...some women may like to read erotica and have fantasies about Janeway and Chakotay or Kes and Paris or whatever, but I would be willing to bet that most women who read Star Trek would not want their Star Trek going in that direction. There are thousands and thousands of romance novels out there and if that is your thing then go read them and leave Trek alone. I'm fine with romance coming into a novel (Death in Winter) but I certainly don't want Star Trek exploited by romance and neither does my wife!

Kevin

 

[Sci]

BTW, for anyone who does want to read a truly Trek-ish story that nonetheless features Janeway and Chakotay getting together -- and Kes surviving and thriving, and Janeway not dying -- I'd recommend reading Places of Exile by Christopher L. Bennett from the Myriad Universes anthology entitled Infinity's Prism.

 

[shanejayell]

Also, Janeway's death does in no way prevent a flashback story. In fact, a character could be spurred to remembering a romance with Janeway after she passed on....

 

[Octavia]

I asked my wife what she thought about Star Trek books going in a more romantic line. She loves reading Star Trek too, but unfortunately does not have as much time to read them, as often as I do. Her response was and I quote.." if I want to read trash novels I'll go buy one but when I read Star Trek I want it to be Star trek free of all that trashiness"! So...some women may like to read erotica and have fantasies about Janeway and Chakotay or Kes and Paris or whatever, but I would be willing to bet that most women who read Star Trek would not want their Star Trek going in that direction. There are thousands and thousands of romance novels out there and if that is your thing then go read them and leave Trek alone. I'm fine with romance coming into a novel (Death in Winter) but I certainly don't want Star Trek exploited by romance and neither does my wife!

Kevin

Mate! Romance does not equal trash. There's trash romance, of course, but there's also trash SF. Every genre has its dregs. Is SF trash because "Spock's Brain" and "Threshold" exist?

 

[Octavia]

Also, Janeway's death does in no way prevent a flashback story. In fact, a character could be spurred to remembering a romance with Janeway after she passed on....

The earth, she does not move for me with that one. Every time now, in a flashback story or one set in the series run, I'm going to see Janeway and think: "dude, you get eaten by a floor".

"Mr. Tuvok, raise the shields!" A big flat floory floor.

"Coffee. Black." A Borg floor!

"Kiss me, Chakotay..." But not one of those awful tiled things that catches all the dirt. It's scotch-guarded. All mess just drains away...