Angel...the beginning of the end

[Warp Coil]

"You're Welcome" is possibly my favorite episode of season 5. I loved the character of Cordelia. I loved her on Buffy, and I loved her on Angel, up until the end of season 3 where she became a little too good for my liking. Having her come back as a villian in season 4 was certainly interesting, but I missed having the "real" Cordy. Her return to form in her season 5 appearance was refreshing. The writing was absolutely perfect. The chemistry was great. It was painfully obvious that she was the heart of the show, and the heart of the gang. Her absence was felt.

The only other episode that comes close is "A Hole in the World"... and we can't discuss that one yet!

 

[Ethros]

Any updates from RoJo? How far are you now?

 

[RoJoHen]

Last episode I watched is still "Why We Fight."

My friend and I both have tonight and tomorrow off, so we'll be hanging out. If I don't finish the series tonight, it'll definitely happen tomorrow. Updates to come!

 

[RoJoHen]

Fred died. WTF?

Illyria (sp?) takes over. While I really missed Fred, I thought Amy Acker did an awesome job as a new character. Plus, Fred's death scene was heartbreaking! "Why can't I stay?"

Long story short, we finished the series tonight. I still have no idea what I think about the ending. I am going to pretend the comics don't exist for a minute, though. That said, the ending made a lot of sense. With Lindsey in an earlier episode describing this as "The" Apocalypse as opposed to just "an" apocalypse, it stands to reason that everybody is doomed anyway. The best they could do was deal a crippling blow to Evil and hope that is has a lasting effect.

I kind of like to think that the world ends, at least as far as we know it. Still, I can't believe how sudden the ending was. The episode felt like it just needed to be about 10 minutes longer (long enough to save the day and have a happy ending!). Oh wait, I forgot, this is a Joss Whedon show. Nobody gets to be happy.

 

[DWMarch]

Oh wait, I forgot, this is a Joss Whedon show. Nobody gets to be happy.

That wasn't really the point of the ending though. The point was that the fight never ends. After this battle there will be another one and so on. I think they summed it up nicely in season 4: "If nothing we do matters than all that matters is what we do."

This was also an appropriate place to end the series. The villain since day 1 (Wolfram & Hart) was defeated (the demons at the end were Sebassis' army- W&H never had one) and Angel's human crew were all dead.

I know the ending is a bit of a downer but remember Angel's words from Power Play:

"We can bring their gears grinding to a halt for one bright shiny moment... You have to decide if that's worth dying for."

And that's what they chose.

 

[Captain Intrepid]

Oh wait, I forgot, this is a Joss Whedon show. Nobody gets to be happy.

That wasn't really the point of the ending though. The point was that the fight never ends. After this battle there will be another one and so on. I think they summed it up nicely in season 4: "If nothing we do matters than all that matters is what we do."

This was also an appropriate place to end the series. The villain since day 1 (Wolfram & Hart) was defeated (the demons at the end were Sebassis' army- W&H never had one) and Angel's human crew were all dead.

I know the ending is a bit of a downer but remember Angel's words from Power Play:

"We can bring their gears grinding to a halt for one bright shiny moment... You have to decide if that's worth dying for."

And that's what they chose.

I think Angel's speech to Conner sums it all up.

"Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. It's harsh, and cruel. But that's why there's us - champions. Doesn't matter where we come from, what we've done or suffered, or even if we make a difference. We live as though the world is as it should be, to show it what it can be."

Damn if that's not one of the truest things I've ever heard.

 

[Dream]

Angel's ending was badass.

It is much better then Buffy's good guys beat bad guys ending.

 

[Ethros]

Yeah it's all about that final scene in Power Play, I think the performances and readings from the cast are just excellent
Spike- Kill 'em all... burn the house down while we're still in it.
Angel- Something like that.

Not Fade Away is easily my favourite Angel episode, and improves on every viewing. The way the tension just keeps on rising is simply awesome, especially in the last 'Team-Angel' scene
Spike- What do you think all this means for that Shanshu bugaboo? If we make it through this, does one of us get to be a real boy?
Angel- Who you kidding? We're not gonna make it through.
Spike- Well, long as it's not you.


And love the scene between Angel & Lindsey, when you see the exact moment on Angel's face near the end when he knows this guy has to die.

 

[Mr Light]

The demon army wasn't Wolfram and Hart's? I don't remember that. The comic book certainly treats it as if it was theirs. RoJo, I'd definitely recommend getting the comic (of Angel and Buffy). That really was the end of the world and the comic is a great huge post-apocalyptic demonic wonderland with tons of great twists and turns. The art isn't amazing but what ya gonna do.

 

[Ethros]

Well Sebassis was in the Circle of the Black Thorn, who were the Senior Partners instruments on Earth. So the army were technically both. It was the Senior Partners who unleashed them on the survivors of Team-Angel

As for the comics, Angel: After The Fall has been mostly extremely excellent. There are to be 17 issues of it, and 16 have come out so far (along with 4 issues of the prequel miniseries Spike: After The Fall) The first 15 were brilliant reads, but something happens in #16 which I thought was just a MASSIVE cheat that kinda spoiled the whole thing IMO. But I'm gonna wait until #17 comes out and see how it ends before I make my full judgement

 

[RoJoHen]

I think I probably need to watch it again. After sleeping on it, I'm still not sure how I feel about it. It definitely felt rushed to me, which I think is what's bugging me the most, like they had 2 episodes left in the series and went, "Oh crap, we need to wrap it up!" I think the finale needed to be fleshed out, maybe just as a 2-hour episode instead of 1.

I think it's just not what I was expecting. I was hoping for something a little more emotional. Angel signing away the Shanshu Prophecy felt like kind of a cheat. After 5 years of the whole "vampire with a soul becomes a real boy" thing going on, this felt like an easy way to get out of that. But at the same time, it makes sense. Angel has said all along that he will never be done atoning for the things he's done, and this ensures that.

I'm also trying to wrap my head around the whole Illyria story. While I thought Amy Acker did a great job, I find I just don't get the point. Illyria didn't have a purpose other than to give Wesley one more kick in the groin...as if he hasn't been hurt enough throughout the course of this show. You want to make a main character evil and kill her off? Fine, you did that in Season 4. I just can't figure out the overall purpose to Illyria's character.

Lorne had been bugging me all season, but his final scene with Lindsey was brilliant. "You kill me? A flunky? Angel kills me." Poor Lindsey.

 

[OdoWanKenobi]

Well, remember that the show was cancelled very suddenly, so they really didn't have a whole lot of time to wrap up the show. Illyria was supposed to have continued on into season six and the storyline more fleshed out there.

 

[RoJoHen]

Ah, gotcha. Didn't realize it was canceled like that. Couldn't UPN buy it for another season or two?

Why can't shows just finish on their own terms, dammit?!

 

[DS9Continuing]

Also, the point of the Illyria character was partly just to give Amy Acker a challenge. Joss knew that she could do more than just the sweet and smart Fred, so he created this whole storyline to give her more to do. But then he also saw how it could affect everyone else, as a sheer example of the kind of shit they go through at W&H. That's why he shoved Fred and Wes together so suddenly - yes, absolutely to give Wes another kick in the balls.

 

[Ethros]

I always liked the initial idea for Illyria- "Queen Victoria meets the Terminator"

 

[DWMarch]

The demon army wasn't Wolfram and Hart's? I don't remember that. The comic book certainly treats it as if it was theirs. RoJo, I'd definitely recommend getting the comic (of Angel and Buffy). That really was the end of the world and the comic is a great huge post-apocalyptic demonic wonderland with tons of great twists and turns. The art isn't amazing but what ya gonna do.

In "Not Fade Away" Angel mentions that Sebassis has 30,000 demons at his command. So when about 30,000 of them showed up at the end of the episode, I assumed they had just learned what happened to their boss and how.

W&H on the other hand always contracted out, which they may have done in this case. But that doesn't make it their army.

 

[RoJoHen]

Do we know what happened to all the other W&H branches around the world? Is this covered in the comics?

Dammit, I think I might have to pick those up.

 

[Ethros]

Do we know what happened to all the other W&H branches around the world? Is this covered in the comics?

Not yet, but there's a reason why the gang doesn't know what's going on outside LA...

The first two TPBs of After The Fall are out now, the first has #1-5, and the second #5-8.
Vol.3 (9-12) and the Spike: ATF TPB should be out in March

 

[Admiral_Young]

Has it really been six years since Angel was cancelled? I never really liked most of the Jasmine plot...season five on the otherhand with the gang working at Wolfram and Hart was very cool for the most part. I still have to read After the Fall now that I'm caught up on Buffy Season Eight.

 

[Ethros]

^ More like five years (2004)