Yeah, kind of sucks he got killed by a good shot from Scavenger.At least the other Autobots got slain by Megatron.
Especially Ironhide. Ain't much left of him, now is there?
Gatekeeper
As "corny" as the animated 1986 Transformers movie is...
- Thread starter Norrin Radd
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Especially Ironhide. Ain't much left of him, now is there?
Gatekeeper
Ethros said:
Well, I think it's safe to say that the movie takes place in a timeline parallel to our own — one where CDs never came to dominate, and one where the Soviet Union never collapsed.
Gatekeeper
In the original script, some of the deaths were more violent - I think Ratchet and Ironhide would have essentially been melted together by Megatron's fusion cannon, IIRC. I wish they'd kept Wheelie's whole scenes intact, so that he actually has a purpose in the movie. And Smokescreen and Red Alert I think would have been killed at Autobot City, with RA being taking out by the Constructicons.
There are always rumours of other violent deaths as well. I definitely heard somewhere that the reason that Prime appears to awkwardly stand up from a crouched position as he challenges Megatron one on one is because he'd just finished off a Conehead (I forget which one) in a particularly savage battle. I don't think there's any truth in it though.
http://www.wombatking.com/coppermine/thumbnails.php?album=4&page=3
The storyboards on this page show Prime fighting triple changers before Megatron - losing his gun and fighting Blitzwing hand to hand, so I guess that's the missing scene.
http://www.wombatking.com/coppermine/thumbnails.php?album=4&page=3
The storyboards on this page show Prime fighting triple changers before Megatron - losing his gun and fighting Blitzwing hand to hand, so I guess that's the missing scene.
I love this link. So much goodness. TFM should have been six hours long.
Sometimes I'm convinced that my brain runs faster than a lot of people, because it made perfect sense to me and I was able to follow the robot combat frame by frame even on first viewing.
I'm not calling people stupid, just pointing out a difference in perception.
The original cartoon has nostalgia going for it, but when my wife and I sat down to watch it a couple of years back it was pretty close to being unwatchable. The battle at the beginning and the Prime/Megs fight was good, the scene where Galvatron turns the newly crowned "King Starscream" into slag was nice, but if I'd never seen the movie before I would have thought it was total shit. My wife couldn't sit through it.
They Bay movie brought tears to my eyes twice the first time I watched it, and upon subsequent viewings and watching the behind the scenes extras and such I've grown to like it even more.
I "get" criticisms of Bay's visual style of directing and editing, that's fine. What I don't get is criticisms that are levelled at the movie that are also failings of the original cartoon, and yet people seem to leave that part out. They also forget that a two hour movie is not a 30 minute cartoon series or a 300 issue comic run.
I liked Bay's movie, I really don't give a crap if other people didn't. They are free to ignore the sequel (but most of them won't, they'll pay money to see it and then bitch about how they "knew" it would suck no matter how kick ass it is).
The Bay film gives its viewers people with whom to empathize. Sam Witwicky is the "everyman" -- okay, the "everyboy." He's a real person with real problems. As we get to know Sam, we also empathize with his family and friends -- and eventually with Bumblebee and the Autobots, through Sam's eyes.
To a first-time viewer, the '86 movie is just a bunch of robots beating the crap out of each other for no apparent reason. The Matrix is deus ex machina, Optimus' death is hollow if you have no familiarity with him, and only if you stick with the movie long enough do you realize that Hot Rod is the boy coming of age -- the film's sympathetic character.
So... while I enjoy both films, I prefer the Bay movie.
To a first-time viewer, the '86 movie is just a bunch of robots beating the crap out of each other for no apparent reason. The Matrix is deus ex machina, Optimus' death is hollow if you have no familiarity with him, and only if you stick with the movie long enough do you realize that Hot Rod is the boy coming of age -- the film's sympathetic character.
So... while I enjoy both films, I prefer the Bay movie.
Very well summarised, although I still prefer the '86 movie, but that is only because I was already a massive Transformers fan, so obviously it has more significance to me.
Also, FordSVT, I also didn't have a problem following the action in Bay's film, and I would go as far as to say that I DON'T see why people criticise Bay's directing style and don't think they have a point.
Criticise his scripts, yes, they're often shit, and he doesn't seem to understand why. Criticise his rewrites - he's no writer, but as a director putting actors in front of a camera and filming them, he really is very skilled, and its disingenuous to say he can't direct because you don't personally like the films he makes. His films always look beautiful, and Transformers is no exception.
darkwing_duck1
Vice Admiral
You call spending at least half of the "brawl for it all" at the end of the film on cutaway shots of the supporting cast instead of the Transformers themselves good direction?
I know, CG is EXPENSIVE...I get that...but DAMN! They used Prime's "money line" from the 86 film as a THROW AWAY during a scene he doesn't even appear in!
There was indeed supposed to be a scene where several Decepticons try to gang up on Prime after he first challenges Megatron, which is why he suddenly seems to go from standing normally to leaning back upright. I forget exactly whether that was actually filmed and then cut for time purposes or only storyboarded at best, as was done with Ultra Magnus carrying Smokescreen and Red Alert. I think one of the production staff also mentioned the idea of having most of the original Autobots being killed off in a sort of "Charge of the Light Brigade" but that was never done.
Of course, the fact that the original script had more violent undertones led to some urban legends that there exists a cut of the movie with such scenes, or one where Prime's body crumbles into dust. But AFAIK, they're just that - amusing legends.
Magnus was supposed to have a more elaborate death scene on Junkion, and a brief part of it was left in. He was to be drawn and quartered by the Sweeps, but this was decided to be too graphic. If you watch when they open fire on him, their beams are still solid. Shockwave's death was also referenced, but not mentioned directly in the movie.
I'm sure that Bay would have loved to show Prime saying that, but IIRC it was essentially a last-minute decision, so there just wasn't enough time to animate and render it.
I don't remember any Transformers putting all their weight on a wood-frame house in Bay's movie.
Even if this were true, is it any less moronic than the Constructicons forming Devastator while inside Astrotrain, who in robot form is not much taller than a single Constructicon?
I recall an online poll somewhere in which fans could vote on Optimus saying one of several possible lines. The winning choice would be used in Bay's film. Apparently the winner was "One shall stand. One shall fall."
Before you start throwing "moronic" around, I'd point out to you that no such scene exists in the movie. Since this is what you're thinking of:
...I hardly think that Prime on his tip toes balancing himself against the side of the house with his fingers placed on the roof would make it collapse. Watching the scene in motion make it even more apparent how gingerly he's actually touching the house. At no point in time during the rest of the scene do any of the bots so much as touch a finger to the roof. Certainly none of them "sit on top of and crawl around on" it.
But don't let facts get in the way of your opinion of the movie, it's all so subjective.
That's exactly right. So that would have been a failure of the script for not containing the line in the first place, not the direction.
And since you know CGI is expensive, I won't bother re-iterating that - do you seriously think Bay wouldn't have had more giant robots fighting if he could have afforded it? He's Michael fucking Bay!
And no, at no point does any robot put its weight on a wooden frame house.
darkwing_duck1
Vice Admiral
Maybe...but it's a consistent problem thoughout the ENTIRE battle sequence...this is supposed to be the Big Bot Fight, and we keep cutting away to Shia, to Meggan, to the soldiers, to some idiot in an SUV...everybody BUT the Autobots and Decepticons...
The last battle scene is consistent with the film at large. With the exception of Bumblebee, the movie's central characters are the humans -- not the Transformers -- and this is by design.
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