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Alternate Timeline! (a.k.a. Everyone can chill out now!)

The

Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Just read the article here on TrekBBS, and was surprised the writer(s) are being so candid about what's going on. Everyone has been wailing and gnashing teeth that they were treading on the "Holy Trinity". So, what do all the naysayers think now that we know the original timeline is still intact and that this new movie is going to be nothing more than a quantum-theoretical timeline? Bueller? Bueller?
 
Yes, the new Star Trek movie is essentially disposable.
How do you suggest we celebrate?
Should we eat a Snickers bar with a knife and fork?
 
The question is at the end of the movie will that timeline be allowed to continue with both timelines in existence or not.

Maybe the movie will also explain how the characters look different too!
 
If they keep this alternate timeline, maybe there'll be a scene where we see the original timeline in the TOS era. Where for consistency they would show the same new actors on the bridge of the original Enterprise or something to show that the original timeline still exists.
 
Personally, I like the idea of an alternative timeline. It frees them up to do alot of things - not only with this movie, but with Star Trek in general.

And the thing is, this timeline is not any less valid than the original one, from a scientific perspective. Just because we saw what we call the original one first doesn't make this one any less valid.

I kinda like that idea. Just pick the timeline that you like and go with it.

*shrugs*
 
If both "universes" (quantum realities? whatever...) are supposed to exist at the same time I can't wait for the inevitable CROSSOVER novel/comic series to come out. :lol:
 
Sounds to me like the alternative timeline is meant to become the main timeline for Star Trek. So "our" timeline won't be the primary one anymore.

Not sure how I feel about that.

Of course, no use fretting over it 'til I see the movie. I don't know what is in store or what will happen and until I do, it's all speculation.
 
If both "universes" (quantum realities? whatever...) are supposed to exist at the same time I can't wait for the inevitable CROSSOVER novel/comic series to come out. :lol:

Yes it would be cool to see Pine Kirk team up with Shatner Kirk, or as I refer to them new Kirk and old Kirk.
 
Sounds to me like the alternative timeline is meant to become the main timeline for Star Trek. So "our" timeline won't be the primary one anymore.

What part of the article gives you that impression?

Yes, the new Star Trek movie is essentially disposable.
How do you suggest we celebrate?
Should we eat a Snickers bar with a knife and fork?

That's a very pessimistic way of viewing it. Are you one of those fans that simply cannot accept anyone or thing except for Shatner & Co.?


Personally, I thought this being an alternate timeline was a perfect explanation to allow new fans to enjoy the new, and old fans to stop crying about the possible negation of their forty-year-old "cannon"...
 
Yes, the new Star Trek movie is essentially disposable.

On the contrary; if this movie is successful, it will assume the status of chief product for the property. All the other texts will assume varying levels of disposability.
 
I preferred a reboot to begin with. A reboot starts everything over from scratch while a prequel is supposed to lead into what we already know. The major drawback of a prequel is the end feels like a reset button. Revenge of the Sith is a perfect example because by the end of the movie, everything is back to the 1977 SW status quo. We know what will eventually happen so there's no wondering what happens next.

An alternate timeline seems like a good compromise. Previous movies and series still "exist" but we can still go to familiar characters and have it not feel like a history lesson.
 
So, what do all the naysayers think now that we know the original timeline is still intact and that this new movie is going to be nothing more than a quantum-theoretical timeline? Bueller? Bueller?

Well, I'm not a naysayer, but I really wish it wasn't even necessary to have rationalizations like this. I don't think there's been a Trek I've been able to watch without having to think it is some sort of "alternate timeline" since 2002 or so. I can't help but feel that a story really crying out to be told would not require significant rewrites on the universe that supposedly inspired it. That aside, time travel is being used for an awful lot of "what if?" stuff for Trek in recent years, and that makes it seem as if the original concept is tapped out, which is something I do not believe.
 
Anyone who's paid close attention to the past 700 episodes and 10 movies of "Star Trek" will recognize two basic facts:

1. Every instance of time travel uses a different method and scientific rationale (warp-10 slingshot, Guardian of Forever, chronometric displacement, Bajoran Orb of Time, temporal Nexus, time vortex, etc.), and has a different result (self-fulfilling time loop, multiple parallel timelines, altered timelines that can be "repaired" through further meddling, etc.).

2. Through all the "Star Trek" series, there have been at least two dozen distinct and mutually exclusive timelines (not even including the self-fulfilling causality loops). For example, in TNG's "Yesterday's Enterprise," it depicted the original timeline where the Federation was at war with the Klingons; Picard's decision to send the Enterprise-C back in time to save a Klingon outpost created the alternate timeline that we see in every other TNG episode, where Worf serves in Starfleet and the Klingons are allies.

The entire series of "Star Trek: Enterprise" takes place in the alternate timeline created when Picard and the Enterprise-E went back in time to fight the Borg in "Star Trek: First Contact." "Enterprise" episodes showed wreckage of the Borg sphere on Earth, and mentioned Cochrane's recollections of the Borg attack. (We can assume that after the Enterprise-E returned to the future, it returned to the "Enterprise" timeline, rather than the one it was in at the beginning of "First Contact.") So the movie "Star Trek: Insurrection" takes place in the future of the "Enterprise" timeline that was started in "First Contact."

The final episode of "Voyager" depicted Admiral Janeway creating a new timeline where the U.S.S. Voyager got back to Earth 20 years early. This alternate timeline was continued in the movie "Star Trek: Nemesis," as evidenced by Admiral Janeway's appearance in that film (when the Voyager and Captain Janeway would still be trapped in the Delta Quadrant for another 20 years in the "original" timeline).

There are dozens of other episodes over the past 40 years where new timelines are created within the episode, and then the series just continues on from the point of view of that new timeline.

In fact, the last four "Star Trek" movies have each taken place in a different timeline from each other.

"Generations" created a new timeline where the sun did NOT explode, and everyone did NOT die, due to Picard and Kirk changing the timeline.

"First Contact" started in the "Generations" timeline, then passed through the Borg-assimilated-Earth timeline, then created the "Star Trek: Enterprise" timeline where the Borg attacked Earth but were stopped.

"Insurrection" took place in the future of the "Star Trek: Enterprise" timeline created in "First Contact."

"Nemesis" took place in the "Admiral Janeway" timeline that was created in the "Voyager" finale.

And, according to this latest report, "Star Trek XI" will take place in yet another timeline, possibly starting in the "Admiral Janeway" timeline of "Nemesis," then spawning its own alternate timeline through time travel.

My point is that each of the last five "Star Trek" movies has taken place in a different timeline from the one before it. It makes no sense to criticize the "Star Trek XI" writers for this, when it has already been going on in the four previous films (whether the writers were aware of it or not).

Aesthetically, every one of the movies has taken liberties with set design and costumes and makeup, starting with "The Motion Picture," so whether the new Enterprise bridge's glass-and-chrome design is the result of an alternate timeline, or just the filmmakers' creative license, it is nothing that hasn't been done a dozen times before.

There is no "official" "Star Trek" timeline. The series has taken place through dozens of mutually exclusive timelines, so creating just one more timeline in this new movie will not invalidate all 750 past episodes; it will just add one more timeline to the dozens that have already been created and incorporated into the series.
 
An alternate timeline seems like a good compromise. Previous movies and series still "exist" but we can still go to familiar characters and have it not feel like a history lesson.



That really is the best way to look at this. While I had some issues with canon and continuity in the beginning, I like what I see too much to really get upset with it. And as I've said all along, as long as it feels like TOS to me at the end, then I'm okay with it.

Archer's prized beagle aside, I really think this film will rock.
 
Anyone who's paid close attention to the past 700 episodes and 10 movies of "Star Trek" will recognize two basic facts:

1. Every instance of time travel uses a different method and scientific rationale (warp-10 slingshot, Guardian of Forever, chronometric displacement, Bajoran Orb of Time, temporal Nexus, time vortex, etc.), and has a different result (self-fulfilling time loop, multiple parallel timelines, altered timelines that can be "repaired" through further meddling, etc.).

2. Through all the "Star Trek" series, there have been at least two dozen distinct and mutually exclusive timelines (not even including the self-fulfilling causality loops). For example, in TNG's "Yesterday's Enterprise," it depicted the original timeline where the Federation was at war with the Klingons; Picard's decision to send the Enterprise-C back in time to save a Klingon outpost created the alternate timeline that we see in every other TNG episode, where Worf serves in Starfleet and the Klingons are allies.

The entire series of "Star Trek: Enterprise" takes place in the alternate timeline created when Picard and the Enterprise-E went back in time to fight the Borg in "Star Trek: First Contact." "Enterprise" episodes showed wreckage of the Borg sphere on Earth, and mentioned Cochrane's recollections of the Borg attack. (We can assume that after the Enterprise-E returned to the future, it returned to the "Enterprise" timeline, rather than the one it was in at the beginning of "First Contact.") So the movie "Star Trek: Insurrection" takes place in the future of the "Enterprise" timeline that was started in "First Contact."

The final episode of "Voyager" depicted Admiral Janeway creating a new timeline where the U.S.S. Voyager got back to Earth 20 years early. This alternate timeline was continued in the movie "Star Trek: Nemesis," as evidenced by Admiral Janeway's appearance in that film (when the Voyager and Captain Janeway would still be trapped in the Delta Quadrant for another 20 years in the "original" timeline).

There are dozens of other episodes over the past 40 years where new timelines are created within the episode, and then the series just continues on from the point of view of that new timeline.

In fact, the last four "Star Trek" movies have each taken place in a different timeline from each other.

"Generations" created a new timeline where the sun did NOT explode, and everyone did NOT die, due to Picard and Kirk changing the timeline.

"First Contact" started in the "Generations" timeline, then passed through the Borg-assimilated-Earth timeline, then created the "Star Trek: Enterprise" timeline where the Borg attacked Earth but were stopped.

"Insurrection" took place in the future of the "Star Trek: Enterprise" timeline created in "First Contact."

"Nemesis" took place in the "Admiral Janeway" timeline that was created in the "Voyager" finale.

And, according to this latest report, "Star Trek XI" will take place in yet another timeline, possibly starting in the "Admiral Janeway" timeline of "Nemesis," then spawning its own alternate timeline through time travel.

My point is that each of the last five "Star Trek" movies has taken place in a different timeline from the one before it. It makes no sense to criticize the "Star Trek XI" writers for this, when it has already been going on in the four previous films (whether the writers were aware of it or not).

Aesthetically, every one of the movies has taken liberties with set design and costumes and makeup, starting with "The Motion Picture," so whether the new Enterprise bridge's glass-and-chrome design is the result of an alternate timeline, or just the filmmakers' creative license, it is nothing that hasn't been done a dozen times before.

There is no "official" "Star Trek" timeline. The series has taken place through dozens of mutually exclusive timelines, so creating just one more timeline in this new movie will not invalidate all 750 past episodes; it will just add one more timeline to the dozens that have already been created and incorporated into the series.
I think I just had a mental breakdown from all that thinking.:lol:

Personally, I'm waiting 'til the movie comes out before I pass judgement on this theory. All this talk of alternate timelines and parallel universes sounds like a DC comics plotline. Nearly a century in the business, and they still keep blowing up their universes just so they don't have to settle on a primary one.:rommie:
 
Try to see it like the Dark Tower- infinite levels of similar realities spinning around an axis (the Tower). In one, there's the Superflu, one has NozzALa cola and the others haven't. Okay the filmmakers aren't exactly Stephen King, but if it works for him, it can work for Trek.

It's just not a big deal, I think. I wouldn't let some awkward comments ruin a film for me.
 
I agree 100% TrekGuide.com and thank you for carrying your post over from the other forum.

But, for the sake of closing a sticking point which some people are [gleefully] using as the latest flogging stick, can a logical, in theory explanation be put forth for why Spock would even care since Nero has removed himself to an alternate time line?

I find it hard to believe the producers missed this &/or didn't consider it sometime in the production. Its potential for being the deal breaker among the fans they were so intensely trying to keep within the fold is Hugh.

Can Spock's motivations for following him be logically addressed at all or does it remain a weak spot in the story for-which there is good reason to be critical of it?

Not that it matters to me, I am still seeing the film but for the sake of pinching off this arguments blood supply asap. Thanks in advance for any considerations you afford my post.
 
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