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Caprica, Flash Forward and Kings

S

stj

Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Recent developments---

Sci Fi Channel has greenlit production on the new prequel series " Caprica" for 20 hours of programming, including the two-hour pilot, it was announced Tuesday (Dec. 2).

In the world of "Caprica," set 50 years before "Battlestar," two rival families -- the Graystones and the Adamas -- grow, compete, and thrive in the vibrant world of the 12 Colonies. Politics, intrigue, sexual scheming and corporate conspiracy will deliver the drama to the series.
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As the series opens, Adama -- father of "BSG's" William Adama -- is a civil liberties lawyer who opposes the experiments to combine artificial intelligence with robotics creating the living robots known as Cylons, developed by Graystone's large computer corporation.
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Mark Stern, Executive Vice President, Original Programming for Sci Fi adds that "Caprica" won't be as dark as "Battlestar," but possesses "smart, dimensional characters who grapple with issues of love, sex and politics from a world in transition."
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Ordering a whole season proves someone is committed to this show. I had never known that AI was separate from "robotic," nor do I know yet how living robots are different from the other kind. For that matter, I don't see how civil rights law leads to a crusade to ban robot making. Do they have them confused with stem cells or something? The emphasis on politics, plus the report that a subway bombing (think London subway---what do they call it? 7/7?) are main topics suggests that somebody is doing political charity work. Is Rupert Murdoch's Sky coproducing or something?

http://www.zap2it.com/tv/news/zap-capricaseriesgreenlight,0,6335586.story

ABC's time-tripping drama pilot "Flash Forward" has found its first two actors, signing "Swingtown" star Jack Davenport and former "Law & Order: Criminal Intent" regular Courtney B. Vance to the cast.

They'll play two of the characters caught up in the chaos that ensues after everyone in the world blacks out for two minutes and has a vision of the future. The show, based on a novel by Robert J. Sawyer and created by David Goyer and Brannon Braga, is on the front burner of ABC's development and is being considered as a possible companion for "Lost."
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Goyer in my opinion is definitely a mixed bag. His work with Braga on Threshold was pretty good and Dark City and Puppet Masters were solid. But he was also connected with Blade (which I found unwatchable) and Batman Begins (really bad,) and Dark Knight Returns (mediocre at best.)

The Flash Forward premise is pretty novel for television SF, but it is certain this bbs will hate the show.

http://www.zap2it.com/tv/news/zap-abcflashforwardcasting,0,4605162.story

There's not bee much about Kings. Obviously the world desperately needs a series in which David and King Saul and company desperately fight against the dread Palestinian "Gath." Goliath it turns out is a brand of tank. I gather the show is pretty much in the can but when is it scheduled?

http://www.nbc.com/Kings/
 
Glad to hear about Caprica going forward. They've assembled a nice cast. Not sure about the BSG writers and their tendency towards mixing preachiness and strained logic, but at least they're doing something reasonably different and not just another police procedural with sci fi window dressing.

I'll give Flash Forward a decent shot, though it sounds like its fated for the post-Lost deathslot. Kings is probably too strange to survive, but NBC is desperate, so the ratings don't have to be great.

Now if Skiffy would only greenlight Revolution...
 
stj said:
I had never known that AI was separate from "robotic..."
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Simple. An artificial intelligence is a constructed device designed to recreate the processes that produce conscious thought and complex decision-making abilities in the human brain. A robot is a mechanical apparatus that does the work of a man autonomously. The HAL 9000 was an AI, but not a robot. The pre-programmed mechanical arms that build cars on assembly lines are robots, but not AIs.

...nor do I know yet how living robots are different from the other kind.
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I'll forgive the inaccurate terminology since it's a publicity piece and not a technical article. I'd assume a "living robot" means it is capable of independent thought and action, and is not a pre-programmed automaton. Data from Star Trek would be a good example of a "living robot," while the aforementioned car-builders would "the other kind."

For that matter, I don't see how civil rights law leads to a crusade to ban robot making. Do they have them confused with stem cells or something?
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The stem cells controversy is an ethics issue, not a civil rights violation. No one who is against stem cell research believes that because they think the newly-formed zygotes are being denied their rights of speech or assembly, or are being forced to quarter soldiers.

As for how robots could be a civil rights issue, consider that these are artificially intelligent robots, not the simple automatons of our own modern world. In other words, mechanical beings expressly designed to think as humans do, with the ability to make their own decisions, yet who are compelled to perform labor without their own consent, with neither pay nor other compensation. In other words, slaves that are built-to-order. The prospects of involuntary servitude and denial of all self-expression do strike me as civil rights issues.

The emphasis on politics, plus the report that a subway bombing (think London subway---what do they call it? 7/7?) are main topics suggests that somebody is doing political charity work. Is Rupert Murdoch's Sky coproducing or something?
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Ouch. That's pretty harsh. Towards everyone. The victims of the subway bombing, the writers of the show, the victims of of every other terrorist attack on a subway or rail line, and the people who aren't so parochial they're unaware of them all.

Batman Begins (really bad,) and Dark Knight Returns (mediocre at best.)
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Does having unpopular opinions make you feel better about yourself, like you're an individual and not part of the mob?

The Flash Forward premise is pretty novel for television SF, but it is certain this bbs will hate the show.
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Guess so.
 
As for how robots could be a civil rights issue, consider that these are artificially intelligent robots, not the simple automatons of our own modern world.
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How can the Caprica robots be so sophisticated and yet the Cylons being anything more than dumb toasters is a shock to the Colonials decades later?

Ahhhhhh, I'll just watch it for the characters and forget the logic. Heroes is training me well. ;)
 
Heh...I read Flash Forward and immediately thought of that Canadian kid show Disney ran in the '90s co-starring Jewel Staite of the same title.

D'oh! :lol:
 
Carols by Candlelight said:
But they were bad and mediocre. Liam Neeson should never play a bad guy, especially in a super hero movie.
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Exactly what is it about Neeson -- and the Nolan Batfilms -- that doesn't work for you? For the record, this is an honest question. I'm not trying to provoke anyone here.
 
So in 2009, the Friday night SF lineup will be Sanctuary -> SGU -> Caprica.

I can't believe I miss the SG-1-BSG days. :p
 
Temis the Vorta said:
As for how robots could be a civil rights issue, consider that these are artificially intelligent robots, not the simple automatons of our own modern world.
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How can the Caprica robots be so sophisticated and yet the Cylons being anything more than dumb toasters is a shock to the Colonials decades later?
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Bigotry and sour grapes.

It was much more comfortable to think that the Cylons were just tinker-toys with guns that had a switch flipped from "good" to "evil" than to accept that humanity deliberately built a sapient slave race, was warned that this was a terrible, amoral idea, disregarded the warnings and then suffered the consequences of their hubris. Much easier to think every cylon was just an appliance with a glitch, even if it doesn't hold up to much critical thinking.

An appliance doesn't stage a revolution, or design a starship, or wage a war, unless it was specifically made to do so. Remember that Adama, Tigh, and Cain, the characters that had first-hand experience dealing with Cylons in the first war, never wrote them off as dumb machines. It was only people like Kara, Roslin, or Helo, who learned about them second-hand, who assumed cylons were simple-minded. And even then, it was only individual cylons they thought were automatons. The cylons as a whole, they appreciated as a clever, canny foe, with an aptitude for technological advancement and innovation. If, deep down, they really believed the cylons were stupid, their first reaction when they found out they could make artificial humans, or formulate strategies for deep-cover espionage instead of straight-up war, or had ships that could travel orders of magnitude farther in a single jump would've been, "What human was stupid enough invent that for them?"
 
Temis the Vorta said:
How can the Caprica robots be so sophisticated and yet the Cylons being anything more than dumb toasters is a shock to the Colonials decades later?

Ahhhhhh, I'll just watch it for the characters and forget the logic. Heroes is training me well. ;)
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The "toaster" models have an intelligence closer to that of a prehistoric man. They're intelligent and capable of feeling things (we see this in BSG a few times, most recently when Baltar was trying to sway one to his cause during the hostage bit), but they're not exactly brilliant tacticians, sophisticated philosophers, or able to blend in with humanity with ease. The "toasters" on BSG are simply an upgraded version of the ones the Colonials remember (ie, ones that resemble those from the original series). The "skinjobs" are something else entirely and nothing like what they remember, and that's what was shocking to the Colonists.

Though I'm sure seeing the new "toaster" models was mildly unexpected, too. Most of them probably had no idea the ones they remember could enhance themselves even that much.
 
Ben Sisko3 said:
Carols by Candlelight said:
But they were bad and mediocre. Liam Neeson should never play a bad guy, especially in a super hero movie.
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Exactly what is it about Neeson -- and the Nolan Batfilms -- that doesn't work for you? For the record, this is an honest question. I'm not trying to provoke anyone here.
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For the record I don't have a big thing for super hero movies. I don't like Superman, don't like Spiderman, enjoyed Iron Man but then again I really enjoyed those comics as a kid.

The Nolan films are reimagined prequels, rewriting all that was done in the films of the 90s. I'm not a fan of prequels either, so Trek XI has mee a little worried :).

I'm a great fan of Liam Neeson, I just don't think he plays baddies very well. He was the only shinning light of The Phantom Menace, and typically he didn't survive the movie!

On topic, I am really pleased for Caprica, although I am worried that this is yet another step in the direction of Sci Fi to move away from... sci fi...
 
Carols by Candlelight said:
Ben Sisko3 said:
Carols by Candlelight said:
But they were bad and mediocre. Liam Neeson should never play a bad guy, especially in a super hero movie.
Click to expand...

Exactly what is it about Neeson -- and the Nolan Batfilms -- that doesn't work for you? For the record, this is an honest question. I'm not trying to provoke anyone here.
Click to expand...

For the record I don't have a big thing for super hero movies. I don't like Superman, don't like Spiderman, enjoyed Iron Man but then again I really enjoyed those comics as a kid.

The Nolan films are reimagined prequels, rewriting all that was done in the films of the 90s. I'm not a fan of prequels either, so Trek XI has mee a little worried :).

I'm a great fan of Liam Neeson, I just don't think he plays baddies very well. He was the only shinning light of The Phantom Menace, and typically he didn't survive the movie!

On topic, I am really pleased for Caprica, although I am worried that this is yet another step in the direction of Sci Fi to move away from... sci fi...
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Problem for you is Capria is a prequal too. Also, Sci Fi isn't moving away from science fiction. It's just moving away for space operas. Caprica, Eureka, Flash Gordon(if it had lasted/been good); they're all science fiction. They just don't live on a space ship and battle aliens.
 
Of the three, Kings intrigues me the most. Looked over the NBC site for it last night and it seems to be interesting. Not sure if it is an alternate history or what, though.
 
Temis the Vorta said:
As for how robots could be a civil rights issue, consider that these are artificially intelligent robots, not the simple automatons of our own modern world.
Click to expand...

How can the Caprica robots be so sophisticated and yet the Cylons being anything more than dumb toasters is a shock to the Colonials decades later?

Ahhhhhh, I'll just watch it for the characters and forget the logic. Heroes is training me well. ;)
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Well, by the end of the Caprica series, marrying AI with robotics will probably have been made illegal. So finding sentient cylons 50 years later would be a shock.
 
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