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Klingon SPOILERS

Hartzilla2007

Vice Admiral
Admiral
Okay it sounds like in the movie before the Kelvin goes kaboom, Nero blows up 47 Klingon Warbirds, yes they said warbirds. So anyone think that the klingons losing possibly a good chunck of their fleet could have contibuted to some of the timeline alterations?
 
It's funny, I get more upset about the Klingons having "Warbirds" than I do about the continuity gaffes, omissions, or changes.
 
"Broken Bow".

Or go all the way back to Star Trek III, when the Klingons had their own "Bird of Prey", another typically Romulan designation.
Ah then its keeping with tradition ;)


Sharr
 
Oh, my. Well, then I guess the effects on the Klingon naval presence as a future threat depend on how big the Klingon navy is--or rather, on what constitutes a significant fleet in this era. (A question they wobbled on in the TNG era, too: was the loss of 39 ships at Wolf 359 a huge fraction of thefleet or a drop in the bucket?)
 
Meh, it's all semantics. Warbirds, warships, birds-of-prey, battlecruisers, Klingons, Romulans... it's all the same, really. There's been so much give-and-take between the two that it really makes no difference anymore.
 
Well its not really a mistake, though many of us like to think the ROmulans have an exclusive on the term "warbird", but any culture could use that term to describe their ships.

And yes Enterprise did refer to them as such.
 
i tend to think of the use of 'warbird' for Klingon ships as a mistranslation of 'bird of prey' and vice-versa for the Romulan ship in balance of terror...:bolian:
 
It's funny, I get more upset about the Klingons having "Warbirds" than I do about the continuity gaffes, omissions, or changes.

Well, to be fair even one of the Vulcan ambassadors in "Broken Bow(ENT)"--set in 2151---inadvertently referred to the Klingon Empire sending a fleet of "Warbirds" to Earth to exact vengeance for what happened to the crash-landed and injured Klaang.
 
That people think of this as a "mistake" is akin to thinking that all references to Starfleet Command must be mistakes, because Kirk's boss was firmly established to be Space Central originally...

Or actually it's even sillier than that, because nothing was "originally" established about how Klingons designate their ships. There is no "Space Central" or "UESPA" to compete with the later Starfleet Command and Starfleet there: Klingons have always had Birds of Prey (which the Romulans have never had, really, as per dialogue, pay heed!), and Klingons have always had Raptors, and Klingons have always had Warbirds.

It may be a coincidence that both Klingons and Romulans like bird terminology for flying things. Or then it's the result of the apparent fact that Vulcans were the ones to first establish this terminology, to translate the native terms to English. It would then suffice that Vulcans are fond of bird terminology (a natural assumption, as they are culturally related to Romulans who have a big bird fetish going for their national emblem and all), and the native Klingon ship designations actually refer to crawling beasts, or are dry technical terms.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Despite several years of Klingon Birds of Prey, and yes, Enterprise's mention of Klingon Warbirds, I tend to agree with JuanBolio. Klingons should have Battlecruisers.

To to respond to the OP, 47 is a lot of ships to lose, but I don't think it's actually a large chuck of the Klingon fleet which would be responsible for patrolling and making war within and around the three dimensions of a large space empire. I don't think it would cripple them. I think it would piss them off severely, however. It would surprise me if there was no plot thread in the movie or a possible sequel about Klingon reprisal.
 
I remember when Broken Bow made mention of Klingon "warbirds." Fandom went apeshit and and used it as proof that Bermaga weren't fit to run Trek.

Why are Abrams & Cohorts being let off the hook so easily?
 
I remember when Broken Bow made mention of Klingon "warbirds." Fandom went apeshit and and used it as proof that Bermaga weren't fit to run Trek.

Why are Abrams & Cohorts being let off the hook so easily?

Yeah, the whole ENT treatment of Klingons, including warbirds, bugged me and lowered my opinion of the "Killer Bs" to new lows. But then, almost all of ENT sucked (IMHO), so I just wrote it all off as a "temporal war," never-was branch of "real" Trek reality. Problem solved.

The same option exists for ST XI if it sucks. It's been called more of a sequel to ENT than a prequel to TOS, and I'll place it in one of those two categories depending on how it turns out (right now, I'm leaning toward the former, which means it gets jettisoned with ENT from "my" Trekverse, but that could be reversed - as a fan of the novel, I expected to hate the Starship Troopers movie before seeing it, but I ended up loving it).

Split/conflicting continuity isn't new; 1974's Space Battleship Yamato movie/TV series (a.k.a. Star Blazers in the US) went through something similar. In its second movie, the ship was destroyed and many of the crew were killed off - it was a great movie. So great, that the producers made a reworked TV series based on the movie where the ship and crew survived, so that additional (lesser-quality IMHO) movies and TV series could be made. While I sorta enjoy them as "what-ifs," I personally prefer the continuity where the ship and crew end with the second movie. So that's my "real Yamatoverse" (though I enjoy occasional outings to the other one).

So, unless ST XI has a "Starship Troopers"-type reversal of expectations for me, I'll just dump it in the "this never really happened" bin along with ENT and mostly ignore it in favor of TOS/TOS movies/TNG.
 
That people think of this as a "mistake" is akin to thinking that all references to Starfleet Command must be mistakes, because Kirk's boss was firmly established to be Space Central originally...

Or actually it's even sillier than that, because nothing was "originally" established about how Klingons designate their ships. There is no "Space Central" or "UESPA" to compete with the later Starfleet Command and Starfleet there: Klingons have always had Birds of Prey (which the Romulans have never had, really, as per dialogue, pay heed!), and Klingons have always had Raptors, and Klingons have always had Warbirds.

It may be a coincidence that both Klingons and Romulans like bird terminology for flying things. Or then it's the result of the apparent fact that Vulcans were the ones to first establish this terminology, to translate the native terms to English. It would then suffice that Vulcans are fond of bird terminology (a natural assumption, as they are culturally related to Romulans who have a big bird fetish going for their national emblem and all), and the native Klingon ship designations actually refer to crawling beasts, or are dry technical terms.

Timo Saloniemi
In TOS, we were told... unambiguously... that the one Klingon ship design we ever saw was a "Klingon Battle Cruiser." And we were told that the only Romulan ships we ever saw were "Romulan ships," except for the one time we saw them flying "Klingon designs."

The description of the Romulan ship as "Bird of Prey" comes from the line by Styles about the ships being recognizable because they're painted as "Birds of Prey." From that point onwards, it was fan-accepted that these ships were "Romulan Birds of Prey" but this was never officially stated (well... I'm not recalling every line from "The Deadly Years" however, so it's possible I might be overlooking one from there?)

Now, in the years between the end of the series and the first flick, everything was fandom-based. The use of the terms "Klingon Battlecruiser" and "Romulan Bird-of-Prey" became totally accepted during this time (including being the officially-sanctioned names given to the AMT kits).

During this time, a non-licensed Trek game came out, made by Lou Zocchi, called the "Starfleet Battle Manual." This predates "Starfleet Battles" and, honestly, I prefer it to SFB, though it's far less deep. Zocchi arranged with a miniature-and-dice-maker, Gamescience, to make starship miniatures. They licenced that with Franz Joseph but not with Paramount.

So, you had a full set of Federation ships... Dreadnought, Cruiser, Scout, Destroyer, and Tug... and you had a choice of a "K-type Cruiser," an "R-type Warbird," or a "T-type Webspinner." It was clear what they were (and the models and graphics were near-perfect) but they didn't use any of the copyrighted terms.

This is the FIRST TIME that the term "Warbird" was used in the description of Romulan ships, but it caught on. I believe that when SFB came along, they originally used the Gamescience ships as well, so they adopted the same nomenclature.

Now, for ST-III, the idea was that it was a Romulan Bird-of-Prey. Some descriptions of drafts I've read talk about the villains being Romulans, but that's not something I've seen confirmed. I did read a synopsis with an additional subplot involving Klingons stealing a Romulan ship, however... and that scene got cut while the script never caught up to the change. So ST-III ended up talking about a "Klingon Bird-of-Prey."

At the time, the fans were in an uproar over this "misstatement." But, since it was a new class of ship, it was accepted that ... well... there's no reason that both Klingons and Romulans can't have their own ships called "Birds of Prey," is there?

When TNG came along, they officially called the Romulan ships "Warbirds" (though this was a new class as well).

SO... I have no real problem with the idea of various ships being called various names. As long as they're not supposed to be "the same ship."

But, all things being equal, I'd far prefer Klingon ships to have some other sort of name... perhaps "Hounds" or so forth... implying hunting packs. It seems more appropriate for who the Klingons are. I just don't see Klingons as being all that similar to falcons and hawks and the like... I see them as being more like wolves.

Ultimately, I suspect that the nomenclature that's being used is the Federation's "code names" for the ships anyway. It's like how we call Eastern helicopter designs names like "HIND" and "HIP" and so forth... those are terms WE came up with, not terms that those who make and use the aircraft came up with.
 
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